feet first surface dive

JGH said:

Martin W. Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

oscargrouch said:

well using a term in its definition is
brilliant...where'd you learn that?

I didn't define surface dive. The term has a well-known
definition. I assumed you knew it. Sorry. A surface dive
is a dive that begins on the surface, not above the
surface, and not below the surface. The surface dive is
subdivided into the head first and the feet first types,
with the obvious meanings.

My opinion is that things really went wrong when he asked
you if the guy was already in the water and just wants to
get to the bottom and you said no. Probably you should have
said yes.

You mean, when he asked "do you mean he's fully in the
water already (treading) and the "feet first surface dive"
is just trying to drop down in the water to get to the
bottom?" and I said "No, I mean he is in the water already,
and he does a feet first surface dive," I should have said
yes even though the guy is not treading water and a feet
first surface dive is not just trying to drop down in the
water to get to the bottom.

Quoted message said:

I too am a little confused by the question since the
instructor should have explained how to do the surface dive
before asking you to do it.

But the original poster does know how to do a feet first
surface dive. He said he didn't have a problem getting to
the bottom of the pool using a feet first surface dive. His
problem is that he can't bend down to pick up the brick
because he immediately starts rising off the bottom. Several
explanations of how to do that were given.

Quoted message said:

If even using the techniques your instructor taught you,
you still can't do it, maybe you're just too boyant.
Nothing can change the laws of physics. So I'm a little
iffy on what kinds of tips you might be looking for.

Anyway, to do a feet first surface dive, you spread your
arms out, push down and do a scizors kick at the same time.
Push yourself as far out of the water as possible. As you
go down, you swing your arms back up over your head
providing further force downward.

That should provide sufficient momentum to get you to the
bottom. You'll have to curl your legs as you touch bottom.
Letting out a little air at that point will help. Maybe
that's the key point. Don't let your momentum stop as you
hit bottom. You might have to exhale to do that.

Quoted message said:

Then I suppose you have never seen a feet first,
surface dive.

Quoted message said:

"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> "oscargrouch" <[email hidden]>
> wrote:
>
> >do you mean he's fully in the water already (treading)
> >and the "feet
first
> >surface dive" is just trying to drop down in the water
> >to get to the
bottom?
>
> No, I mean he is in the water already, and he does a
> feet first surface dive.
>
> >if so, and, mind you, i'm no hydrokinesiologist, then
> >that seems like a pretty damn inefficient way to try
> >to get to the bottom

from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >that
position,
> >especially if you want to pick something up when you
> >get there...isn't it easier to dive head first and
> >swim down there?
>
> Have you never watched synchronized swimmers during a
> competition?
>
> >"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in
> >message
> >"]news:[email hidden]...
> >> "oscargrouch" <[email hidden]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >here's my advice: don't call jumping in the pool a
> >> >"feet first surface dive"
> >>
> >> He didn't. He *is* doing a feet first surface dive.
> >> The test begins in the water, not on the deck.
> >>
> >> >"Mark Juszczec" <[email hidden]> wrote in
> >> >message -"]news:[email hidden]-
> >> >oogle.com...
> >> >> Hi folks
> >> >>
> >> >> This is kind of related.
> >> >>
> >> >> I want to take the Red Cross Lifeguard
> >> >> certifiction course. One
part
> >> >> is to grab a 10lb rubber brick off the bottom of
> >> >> the pool. I'm
doing
> >> >> a feet first surface dive to get to the bottom.
> >> >>
> >> >> The problem is, although I can get my feet to
> >> >> touch the

bottom

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >> >> of
the
> >> >> pool, once I bend my knees to crouch to the brick
> >> >> I start floating
up.
> >> >>
> >> >> Does anyone have any tips to get to the bottom
> >> >> faster and be able to crouch down without driving
> >> >> myself away from the brick?
> >> >>
> >> >> Mark
> >> >
> >>
> >
>

since you appear so smart, what you should have done is
explain what a feet first surface dive is using some other
terms besides the term under discussion (feet first surface
dive)...i understand your desire to be a wiseass about it,
especially given the manner in which i started this part of
the conversation, but your wiseassedness would be more
appreciated if you gave information at the same
time...especially since, despite my attitude, it was obvious
that i was less wiseassed and genuinely inquisitive about
the concept once i (think i (but still not sure)) understood
that a 'feet first surface dive' wasn't the simple thing i
originally thought it was

and now you say he is in the water, but not treading? is he
floating? how's he keeping OFF the bottom if he's not doing
either of those?

"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JGH said:

Martin W. Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"oscargrouch" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

>well using a term in its definition is
>brilliant...where'd you learn that?

I didn't define surface dive. The term has a well-known
definition. I assumed you knew it. Sorry. A surface
dive is a dive that begins on the surface, not above
the surface, and not below the surface. The surface
dive is subdivided into the head first and the feet
first types, with the obvious meanings.

My opinion is that things really went wrong when he asked
you if the guy was already in the water and just wants to
get to the bottom and you said no. Probably you should
have said yes.

You mean, when he asked "do you mean he's fully in the
water already (treading) and the "feet first surface dive"
is just trying to drop down in the water to get to the
bottom?" and I said "No, I mean he is in the water
already, and he does a feet first surface dive," I should
have said yes even though the guy is not treading water
and a feet first surface dive is not just trying to drop
down in the water to get to the bottom.

Quoted message said:

I too am a little confused by the question since the
instructor should have explained how to do the surface
dive before asking you to do it.

But the original poster does know how to do a feet first
surface dive. He said he didn't have a problem getting to
the bottom of the pool using a feet first surface dive.
His problem is that he can't bend down to pick up the
brick because he immediately starts rising off the bottom.
Several explanations of how to do that were given.

Quoted message said:

If even using the techniques your instructor taught you,
you still can't do it, maybe you're just too boyant.
Nothing can change the laws of physics. So I'm a little
iffy on what kinds of tips you might be looking for.

Anyway, to do a feet first surface dive, you spread your
arms out, push down and do a scizors kick at the same
time. Push yourself as far out of the water as possible.
As you go down, you swing your arms back up over your
head providing further force downward.

That should provide sufficient momentum to get you to the
bottom. You'll have to curl your legs as you touch
bottom. Letting out a little air at that point will help.
Maybe that's the key point. Don't let your momentum stop
as you hit bottom. You might have to exhale to do that.

Quoted message said:

Then I suppose you have never seen a feet first,
surface dive.

>"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>"]news:[email hidden]...
>> "oscargrouch" <[email hidden]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >do you mean he's fully in the water already
>> >(treading) and the "feet
>first
>> >surface dive" is just trying to drop down in the
>> >water to get to the
>bottom?
>>
>> No, I mean he is in the water already, and he does a
>> feet first surface dive.
>>
>> >if so, and, mind you, i'm no hydrokinesiologist,
>> >then that seems like a pretty damn inefficient way
>> >to try to get to the bottom

from

Quoted message said:

>> >that
>position,
>> >especially if you want to pick something up when you
>> >get there...isn't it easier to dive head first and
>> >swim down there?
>>
>> Have you never watched synchronized swimmers during a
>> competition?
>>
>> >"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in
>> >message
>> >"]news:[email hidden]...
>> >> "oscargrouch" <[email hidden]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >here's my advice: don't call jumping in the pool
>> >> >a "feet first surface dive"
>> >>
>> >> He didn't. He *is* doing a feet first surface
>> >> dive. The test begins in the water, not on the
>> >> deck.
>> >>
>> >> >"Mark Juszczec" <[email hidden]> wrote in
>> >> >message news:91015c9e.0405200834.892ab46@posting-
>> >> >.google.com...
>> >> >> Hi folks
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This is kind of related.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I want to take the Red Cross Lifeguard
>> >> >> certifiction course. One
>part
>> >> >> is to grab a 10lb rubber brick off the bottom
>> >> >> of the pool. I'm
>doing
>> >> >> a feet first surface dive to get to the bottom.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The problem is, although I can get my feet to
>> >> >> touch the

bottom

Quoted message said:

>> >> >> of
>the
>> >> >> pool, once I bend my knees to crouch to the
>> >> >> brick I start floating
>up.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Does anyone have any tips to get to the bottom
>> >> >> faster and be able to crouch down without
>> >> >> driving myself away from the brick?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mark
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
>

oscargrouch said:

since you appear so smart, what you should have done is
explain what a feet first surface dive is using some other
terms besides the term under discussion (feet first surface
dive)...i understand your desire to be a wiseass about it,
especially given the manner in which i started this part of
the conversation, but your wiseassedness would be more
appreciated if you gave information at the same
time...especially since, despite my attitude, it was
obvious that i was less wiseassed and genuinely inquisitive
about the concept once i (think i (but still not sure))
understood that a 'feet first surface dive' wasn't the
simple thing i originally thought it was

Well excuse me. The original poster was not confused about
what a feet first surface dive is, so when your butt
suddenly burst into the conversation as if to say we were
stupid for talking about feet first surface dives at all, I
assumed you were the one being the wiseass. How could I have
been so stupid?

Quoted message said:

and now you say he is in the water, but not treading? is he
floating? how's he keeping OFF the bottom if he's not doing
either of those?

The standard procedure is to swim to the location where the
victim went down and do a surface dive. Why don't you just
take the lifesaving course? When you join a discussion about
lifesaving, the other people in the discussion reasonably
think you know something about the subject.

Quoted message said:

"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JGH said:

Martin W. Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

> "oscargrouch" <[email hidden]>
> wrote:
>
>>well using a term in its definition is
>>brilliant...where'd you learn that?
>
> I didn't define surface dive. The term has a well-
> known definition. I assumed you knew it. Sorry. A
> surface dive is a dive that begins on the surface, not
> above the surface, and not below the surface. The
> surface dive is subdivided into the head first and the
> feet first types, with the obvious meanings.

My opinion is that things really went wrong when he
asked you if the guy was already in the water and just
wants to get to the bottom and you said no. Probably you
should have said yes.

You mean, when he asked "do you mean he's fully in the
water already (treading) and the "feet first surface
dive" is just trying to drop down in the water to get to
the bottom?" and I said "No, I mean he is in the water
already, and he does a feet first surface dive," I should
have said yes even though the guy is not treading water
and a feet first surface dive is not just trying to drop
down in the water to get to the bottom.

Quoted message said:

I too am a little confused by the question since the
instructor should have explained how to do the surface
dive before asking you to do it.

But the original poster does know how to do a feet
first surface dive. He said he didn't have a problem
getting to the bottom of the pool using a feet first
surface dive. His problem is that he can't bend down to
pick up the brick because he immediately starts rising
off the bottom. Several explanations of how to do that
were given.

Quoted message said:

If even using the techniques your instructor taught you,
you still can't do it, maybe you're just too boyant.
Nothing can change the laws of physics. So I'm a little
iffy on what kinds of tips you might be looking for.

Anyway, to do a feet first surface dive, you spread your
arms out, push down and do a scizors kick at the same
time. Push yourself as far out of the water as possible.
As you go down, you swing your arms back up over your
head providing further force downward.

That should provide sufficient momentum to get you to
the bottom. You'll have to curl your legs as you touch
bottom. Letting out a little air at that point will
help. Maybe that's the key point. Don't let your
momentum stop as you hit bottom. You might have to
exhale to do that.

>
> Then I suppose you have never seen a feet first,
> surface dive.
>
>>"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in
>>message
>>"]news:[email hidden]...
>>> "oscargrouch" <[email hidden]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >do you mean he's fully in the water already
>>> >(treading) and the "feet
>>first
>>> >surface dive" is just trying to drop down in the
>>> >water to get to the
>>bottom?
>>>
>>> No, I mean he is in the water already, and he does a
>>> feet first surface dive.
>>>
>>> >if so, and, mind you, i'm no hydrokinesiologist,
>>> >then that seems like a pretty damn inefficient way
>>> >to try to get to the bottom
from
>>> >that
>>position,
>>> >especially if you want to pick something up when
>>> >you get there...isn't it easier to dive head first
>>> >and swim down there?
>>>
>>> Have you never watched synchronized swimmers during
>>> a competition?
>>>
>>> >"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in
>>> >message
>>> >"]news:[email hidden]...
>>> >> "oscargrouch"
>>> >> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >here's my advice: don't call jumping in the pool
>>> >> >a "feet first surface dive"
>>> >>
>>> >> He didn't. He *is* doing a feet first surface
>>> >> dive. The test begins in the water, not on the
>>> >> deck.
>>> >>
>>> >> >"Mark Juszczec" <[email hidden]> wrote in
>>> >> >message news:91015c9e.0405200834.892ab46@postin-
>>> >> >g.google.com...
>>> >> >> Hi folks
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> This is kind of related.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I want to take the Red Cross Lifeguard
>>> >> >> certifiction course. One
>>part
>>> >> >> is to grab a 10lb rubber brick off the bottom
>>> >> >> of the pool. I'm
>>doing
>>> >> >> a feet first surface dive to get to the
>>> >> >> bottom.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> The problem is, although I can get my feet to
>>> >> >> touch the
bottom
>>> >> >> of
>>the
>>> >> >> pool, once I bend my knees to crouch to the
>>> >> >> brick I start floating
>>up.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Does anyone have any tips to get to the bottom
>>> >> >> faster and be able to crouch down without
>>> >> >> driving myself away from the brick?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Mark
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>
>
>

"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Well excuse me. The original poster was not confused about
what a feet first surface dive is, so when your butt
suddenly burst into the conversation as if to say we were
stupid for talking about feet first surface dives at all,
I assumed you were the one being the wiseass. How could I
have been so stupid?

that's what i'm trying to figure out, especially since i
admitted to being a wiseass for anyone who can read

Quoted message said:

The standard procedure is to swim to the location where
the victim went down and do a surface dive. Why don't you
just take the lifesaving course? When you join a
discussion about lifesaving, the other people in the
discussion reasonably think you know something about the
subject.

but it was obvious that i didn't, no?