Fit for Purpose?

Budstaff has brought this to us :

Quoted message said:

It's been said here before, cue references to Holland, but _why_ is the UK
bike retail industry so keen on selling bikes to grown ups that just aren't
right for the purpose to which they're put?

Because in Holland bikes are seen as a viable mode of transport,
whereas here they're seen as toys. Unfortunately, this perception
includes many in the cycle trade.

--
Simon

Budstaff said:

Overheard a not-untypical sales pitch in a not-untypical LBS
yesterday, revolved around whether full-sus or hardtail was right for
a woman who wished to use a bike to go to the shops, pick kids up
from school.etc.
Said shop will sell you an MTB from £80 to £4000, has a couple of
full-on road racers, and lurking in a corner a dusty hybrid or two
that the salesman (well, boy actually... no , 'salesdude' probably
summed him up) was blissfully unaware of or held to be beneath him,
but _nothing_ with mudguards as standard.

It's been said here before, cue references to Holland, but _why_ is
the UK bike retail industry so keen on selling bikes to grown ups
that just aren't right for the purpose to which they're put?
Overcomplex, under-engineered cos' they're built down to a price,
when for the same money you could have a quality bike _without_
suspension, disc brakes etc.

I can't answer for the "you need 8inch travel full suspension to go to the
shops" bit.

However, I had a chat with a LBS owner recently in relation to a "very
sensible" Ridgeback hybrid (hub gears, hub dynamo, etc).
He said that he had tried stocking bikes with mudguards, and also fitting
them in advance to "sensible hybrids" and pricing accordingly. Also tried
having same bike without mudguards alongside one with.
He said he would sell bikes 10:1 without mudguards, and then most of the ten
customers would then happily pay for mudguards (etc) to be fitted as
extras - some immediately, and some a few weeks later after their first
experience of puddles. He thought it wierd as much as I did, but he's got
to make his living. Best we could think of is that people see the headline
price and don't factor in the extras.

That's before we get onto competing against the supermarket and discount
sales of bike-shaped-objects.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Simon D said:

Budstaff has brought this to us :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's been said here before, cue references to Holland, but _why_ is the UK
bike retail industry so keen on selling bikes to grown ups that just aren't
right for the purpose to which they're put?

Quoted message said:

Because in Holland bikes are seen as a viable mode of transport,
whereas here they're seen as toys. Unfortunately, this perception
includes many in the cycle trade.

And many in the cycle facilities trade...

Roos

"Simon D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Budstaff has brought this to us :

Quoted message said:

It's been said here before, cue references to Holland, but _why_ is the
UK bike retail industry so keen on selling bikes to grown ups that just
aren't right for the purpose to which they're put?

Because in Holland bikes are seen as a viable mode of transport, whereas
here they're seen as toys. Unfortunately, this perception includes many in
the cycle trade.

--
Simon

My point exactly, but what I still have trouble getting my head round is
that when someone goes to a bike shop and specs their requirement as a
utility cycle, the shops still have a one-size-fits-all mentality, and
offers an MTB. It's one step away from the old 'a lot of people ask for
those but there's no call for them.'

Budstaff formulated the question :

Quoted message said:

"Simon D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Budstaff has brought this to us :

Quoted message said:

It's been said here before, cue references to Holland, but _why_ is the UK
bike retail industry so keen on selling bikes to grown ups that just
aren't right for the purpose to which they're put?

Because in Holland bikes are seen as a viable mode of transport, whereas
here they're seen as toys. Unfortunately, this perception includes many in
the cycle trade.

My point exactly, but what I still have trouble getting my head round is that
when someone goes to a bike shop and specs their requirement as a utility
cycle, the shops still have a one-size-fits-all mentality, and offers an MTB.
It's one step away from the old 'a lot of people ask for those but there's no
call for them.'

I agree with you entirely, but do think that it's the mindset I've
described that's responsible.

I used to work in the trade, and my shop stocked a high proportion of
hybrids. Some were pre-fitted with 'guards, etc., but actually it just
wasn't possible to source many that way. however, nearly all went out
of the door with them fitted, and we did take the trouble to talk to
people about what they really needed.

I think that our approach worked for us purely because we were
essentially a small, specialist shop in a rural location; bike sales
were a relatively small part of our turnover, and we didn't have to
concentrate on churning out huge numbers. On top of that, the people
who bought from us were almost never passing trade, and in making the
decision to travel to us had already shown some imagination.

Most shops couldn't have worked the way we did, and it's all to easy
for them to just go with what's in demand and not to make the effort.
All in all it's a vicious circle: the consumer wants a mountain bike
with full suspension; the shop can't be bothered to spend time
persuading them otherwise; the manufacturer responds with more mountain
bikes; mountain bikes are what gets promoted; the consumer wants a
mountain bike with full suspension....

Sorry - that probably doesn't help to reduce your depression!

--
Simon

In article <[email hidden]>

Budstaff said:

Overheard a not-untypical sales pitch in a not-untypical LBS yesterday,
revolved around whether full-sus or hardtail was right for a woman who
wished to use a bike to go to the shops, pick kids up from school.etc.

Said shop will sell you an MTB from £80 to £4000, has a couple of full-on
road racers, and lurking in a corner a dusty hybrid or two that the salesman
(well, boy actually... no , 'salesdude' probably summed him up) was
blissfully unaware of or held to be beneath him, but _nothing_ with
mudguards as standard.

It's been said here before, cue references to Holland, but _why_ is the UK
bike retail industry so keen on selling bikes to grown ups that just aren't
right for the purpose to which they're put? Overcomplex, under-engineered
cos' they're built down to a price, when for the same money you could have a
quality bike _without_ suspension, disc brakes etc.

Utility cycling in the UK was for many years seen to be the choice of
paupers, eccentrics and kids, whereas in many other parts of the world
it has always been seen as a sensible effective means of transport. The
cycling revival has to quite a large extent been driven by bling -
people want "high-tech" bikes so they won't be associated with the
three-speed roadsters (hence lack of mudguards) and ten-speed racers of
old. There's also the misconception that old-school bikes were
uncomfortable, dangerous and hard work, so new ones with fat tyres,
suspension, lots of gears and disc brakes must be better.

On 19/08/2006 16:42, Rob Morley said,

Quoted message said:

Utility cycling in the UK was for many years seen to be the choice of
paupers, eccentrics and kids

I wonder when this attitude kicked in? Not that I remember it, but I've
seen loads of photos around the 1950s and 1960s with crowds of workers
heading off to work on their bikes. I do remember the late 1970s, and I
don't seem to remember any issues about cyclists being a bit strange
then. My theory is that the rot started in the 1980s, probably not
helped by Thatcher's aim for every adult to have a car.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Paul Boyd said:

On 19/08/2006 16:42, Rob Morley said,

Quoted message said:

Utility cycling in the UK was for many years seen to be the choice of
paupers, eccentrics and kids

Quoted message said:

My theory is that the rot started in the 1980s, probably not
helped by Thatcher's aim for every adult to have a car.

Indeed. Those cars to some extent funded by Maggies bingo.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Rob Morley said:

Utility cycling in the UK was for many years seen to be the choice of
paupers, eccentrics and kids, whereas in many other parts of the world
it has always been seen as a sensible effective means of transport.

I'm in Denmark at the moment, which is another country well set up for
cyclists. I've been surprised how many Raleigh bikes there are around -
but not many look like we'd have in the UK.
http://www.raleighbikes.dk/Default.asp?ID=186&M=Shop&PID=412&ProductID=1797
is a particularly popular one, but I can't see it selling in the UK.

Matt

Matthew Haigh said:

Rob Morley said:

Utility cycling in the UK was for many years seen to be the choice of
paupers, eccentrics and kids, whereas in many other parts of the world
it has always been seen as a sensible effective means of transport.

I'm in Denmark at the moment, which is another country well set up for
cyclists. I've been surprised how many Raleigh bikes there are around -
but not many look like we'd have in the UK.
http://www.raleighbikes.dk/Default.asp?ID=186&M=Shop&PID=412&ProductID=1797
is a particularly popular one, but I can't see it selling in the UK.

Matt

in message <[email hidden]>, Paul

Boyd (') said:

On 19/08/2006 16:42, Rob Morley said,

Quoted message said:

Utility cycling in the UK was for many years seen to be the choice of
paupers, eccentrics and kids

I wonder when this attitude kicked in? Not that I remember it, but
I've seen loads of photos around the 1950s and 1960s with crowds of
workers
heading off to work on their bikes. I do remember the late 1970s, and
I don't seem to remember any issues about cyclists being a bit strange
then. My theory is that the rot started in the 1980s, probably not
helped by Thatcher's aim for every adult to have a car.

I think it's geographically variable, even on a micro scale. Hereabouts,
the town of Kirkcudbright still has a utility bike culture; other towns
less than ten miles away don't. Kirkcudbright town is largely flat, and
that may have something to do with it; but I also think it's a matter of
tradition and of critical mass.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Skill without imagination is craftsmanship and gives us
;; many useful objects such as wickerwork picnic baskets.
;; Imagination without skill gives us modern art.
;; Tom Stoppard, Artist Descending A Staircase

Matthew Haigh said:

I'm in Denmark at the moment, which is another country well set up for
cyclists. I've been surprised how many Raleigh bikes there are around -
but not many look like we'd have in the UK.
http://www.raleighbikes.dk/Default.asp?ID=186&M=Shop&PID=412&ProductID=1797
is a particularly popular one, but I can't see it selling in the UK.

Complete with white rear mudguard - a feature originally meant as an
aid to visibility in the second world war blackout, I think.

Colin McKenzie

--
On average in Britain, you're more likely to get a head injury walking
a mile than cycling it.
So why aren't we all exhorted to wear walking helmets?

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Paul

Boyd (') said:

On 19/08/2006 16:42, Rob Morley said,

Quoted message said:

Utility cycling in the UK was for many years seen to be the choice of
paupers, eccentrics and kids

I wonder when this attitude kicked in? Not that I remember it, but
I've seen loads of photos around the 1950s and 1960s with crowds of
workers
heading off to work on their bikes. I do remember the late 1970s, and
I don't seem to remember any issues about cyclists being a bit strange
then. My theory is that the rot started in the 1980s, probably not
helped by Thatcher's aim for every adult to have a car.

I think it's geographically variable, even on a micro scale. Hereabouts,
the town of Kirkcudbright still has a utility bike culture; other towns
less than ten miles away don't. Kirkcudbright town is largely flat, and
that may have something to do with it; but I also think it's a matter of
tradition and of critical mass.

--

They have a critical mass in Kirkcudbright ?? ;-)