Fixed project.

del said:

noticed that the dropouts might be long enough to keep proper tension
on a chain, wrapped around a flip flop hub. The dropout length is
roughly an inch, as can be guesstimated from the images.

Looks like it would, as they are forward-facing d/o's, you just need to
get the hub in far enough so the flat around the bolt has adequate
purchase on the frame

"sothach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

del said:

noticed that the dropouts might be long enough to keep proper tension
on a chain, wrapped around a flip flop hub. The dropout length is
roughly an inch, as can be guesstimated from the images.

Looks like it would, as they are forward-facing d/o's, you just need to
get the hub in far enough so the flat around the bolt has adequate
purchase on the frame

..... and get a long ring spanner to get the nuts on the hub REALLY TIGHT!

RG

RG' nochance said:

"sothach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

del said:

noticed that the dropouts might be long enough to keep proper tension
on a chain, wrapped around a flip flop hub. The dropout length is
roughly an inch, as can be guesstimated from the images.

Looks like it would, as they are forward-facing d/o's, you just need to
get the hub in far enough so the flat around the bolt has adequate
purchase on the frame

.... and get a long ring spanner to get the nuts on the hub REALLY TIGHT!

I do this on my fixer, but why?

The forces acting on the frame when pedalling are no greater surely
then when pedalling a freewheel equipped bike. Is there a case for
fitting a QR to a fixer?

Tim

RG said:

.... and get a long ring spanner to get the nuts on the hub REALLY TIGHT!

Is that cuz it's steel and the serrations on the nut's built-in washer
don't bite as well as with ally?

"sothach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

RG said:

.... and get a long ring spanner to get the nuts on the hub REALLY TIGHT!

Is that cuz it's steel and the serrations on the nut's built-in washer
don't bite as well as with ally?

Nope - it's because the pedal pressure on the chain can pull the back wheel
out of alignment or out of the dropouts (and with forward facing dropouts
that would be a problem to put it mildly) AND to keep the chain at the right
tension/alignment.

Track frames with rear-facing dropouts often have "chain tugs" to keep the
axle in position and maintain chain tension.

RG

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

.... and get a long ring spanner to get the nuts on the hub REALLY
TIGHT!

I do this on my fixer, but why?

The forces acting on the frame when pedalling are no greater surely
then when pedalling a freewheel equipped bike. Is there a case for
fitting a QR to a fixer?

I guess, and it really is a guess having not ridden a fixed before,
(kiddie trike yonks ago doesn't count) that there may be a twisting
action on the hub when using legs to brake?!?
On this Sprint frame there are small, tapped, holes on the back edge of
the DO so a screw can be used to help keep the hub in the correct
position. These will also help stop the guessed hub twist?!?
--
del 8-)

On Wednesday 24 May 2006 11:31 del, wrote:
<snip>drivel
Like wot RG said!
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
--
del 8-)

del said:

I am soon going to be able to store both of my bikes inside, just have
to bod^H^H^H fabricate some hooks.

While looking over my Raleigh Record Sprint, 1990ish model, I noticed
that the cassette was a bit wobbly, see bad video in link below, and
put it on the workstand. Once there I was looking at the rear end and I
noticed that the dropouts might be long enough to keep proper tension
on a chain, wrapped around a flip flop hub.

My commuter fixed-gear hack is based on a Record Sprint of similar vintage.
The dropouts are quite long enough.

Regards,

Quoted message said:

My commuter fixed-gear hack is based on a Record Sprint of similar
vintage. The dropouts are quite long enough.

Excellent!
Got any info to share, hardware, pitfalls, hints or tips.
--
del 8-)

del said:

Quoted message said:

My commuter fixed-gear hack is based on a Record Sprint of similar
vintage. The dropouts are quite long enough.

Excellent!
Got any info to share, hardware, pitfalls, hints or tips.

I started with a fairly bare frame rather than a complete bike so I can't
advise on a full conversion. That said, here's my distilled thoughts.

The bottom bracket on these bikes seems a bit cheesy and the sealing isn't
very good. Mine was almost impossible to be adjust. Advice: replace it with
a cartridge job if/when you replace the chainset.

The original chainset is good enough but has non-standard stack bolts.
Chainline won't be perfect (~2mm too far inboard at the chainset end) with
the inner ring and the rings can't be moved around because the outer ring
forms part of the spider. Advice: replace this if you want perfect chainline
without too much effort (i.e. shimming the sprocket). I rode the bike with
this chainset for a year without difficulties though.

One advantage of this frame is good clearance for mudguards. If you are not
happy with the existing nut-fitting single pivot brakes and want to replace
them you will need to drill the frame to install recess-fit deep drop
brakes. On the rear I use a KF caliper from Edinburgh Bicycle Coop which is
cheap and cheerful. Since I provided my own front fork, I'm using a 49mm
drop 105 caliper there which *just about* fits.

Obviously you will need a rear wheel rebuild. Avoid the Sovos flip-flop hub
and Cyclo sprockets. My first wheel for a fixie was based around these and
they were both made of Comedy Cheesemetal(TM), the hub was poorly sealed and
the sprocket was pressed wonky. [censored] on toast. After I stripped the threads
on that hub a while back I rebuilt the wheel with an On-One Inbred hub:

http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=18&MMN_position=157:157

It's a much better proposition[1] than the Sovos. If you have yet more bucks
and want more Bling Bling, then I suggest Goldtec. I have one of their
wheels (bought while I was rebuilding the knackered Sovos-based wheel) and
it is very nice. A failed Goldtec (cracked flange) was reported here a while
back but it doesn't seem to be a common problem.

HTH anyway.

Regards,

-david

[1] I'm using the 120mm spacing and forcing the frame inwards. The supplied
axle is sufficiently long to permit respacing and I have two 3mm spacers to
suit, just haven't fitted them yet. Assuming you are doing your own wheel
build, the hub isn't in Spocalc so after a bit of measuring I decided on
290mm spokes (zero dish). They could be a few mm longer without causing
difficulties though.

RG said:

"sothach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

RG said:

.... and get a long ring spanner to get the nuts on the hub REALLY TIGHT!

Is that cuz it's steel and the serrations on the nut's built-in washer
don't bite as well as with ally?

Nope - it's because the pedal pressure on the chain can pull the back wheel
out of alignment or out of the dropouts (and with forward facing dropouts
that would be a problem to put it mildly) AND to keep the chain at the right
tension/alignment.

Track frames with rear-facing dropouts often have "chain tugs" to keep the
axle in position and maintain chain tension.

This may explain a little niggle I have with my hub geared bike.

After a while when I go over a bump, the chain pops off the gears. Once
I get the chain back on I tend to notice a bit too much play in the
chain. Out with my little adjustable spanner to re tension the chain and
then do it up again. ... repeat ...

These adjustments are usually made on the side of the road when I just
have the tiddly spanner with me. When I get a circular thing, I must go
out with the big thing and put a bit of welly into it.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

They used dogs. They used probes. They used cardio plate
crossoffs. They used teepers. They used bribery. They used
stick tites. They used intimidation. They used torment. They
used torture. They used finks. They used cops. They used
search and seizure. They used fallaron. They used betterment
incentives. They used finger prints. They used the bertillion
system. They used cunning. They used guile. They used
treachery. They used Raoul-Mitgong but he wasn't much help.
They used applied physics. They used techniques of criminology.
And what the hell, they caught him. (Harlan Ellison, "Repent,
Harlequin, said the Tick-Tock Man"😉

Quoted message said:

HTH anyway.

Regards,

Yes it does, many thanks.
--
del 8-)

David Nutter said:

del said:

Quoted message said:

My commuter fixed-gear hack is based on a Record Sprint of similar
vintage. The dropouts are quite long enough.

Excellent!
Got any info to share, hardware, pitfalls, hints or tips.

<snippage>

Quoted message said:

Obviously you will need a rear wheel rebuild. Avoid the Sovos flip-flop hub
and Cyclo sprockets. My first wheel for a fixie was based around these and
they were both made of Comedy Cheesemetal(TM), the hub was poorly sealed and
the sprocket was pressed wonky. [censored] on toast. After I stripped the threads
on that hub a while back I rebuilt the wheel with an On-One Inbred hub:

http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=18&MMN_position=157:157

It's a much better proposition[1] than the Sovos. If you have yet more bucks
and want more Bling Bling, then I suggest Goldtec. I have one of their
wheels (bought while I was rebuilding the knackered Sovos-based wheel) and
it is very nice. A failed Goldtec (cracked flange) was reported here a while
back but it doesn't seem to be a common problem.

I used the DNM Revolver ss rear hub, and its worked very well with a
Dura Ace sprocket. It's 135mm spacing, so I decided to spread the frame.
The cheapo way is to un-dish the rear wheel (assuming its a freewheel),
but this leads to a rather weak axle support arrangement. The DMR is
very strong as it was originally intended for dirt jumping, and they do
a 14mm axle version if the 10mm one is not strong enough (I weigh the
best part of 100Kg, so strength was a priority). The previous model is
the one to get if you want to run it as a flip flop hub, and there still
appear to be a few left. The new one has disk brake mountings which
don't look nice if you're not going to use disk brakes.

I converted a bike which started out with 590 wheels to 622 wheels, as a
bit of extra ground clearance is a good idea when you have to pedal
through the corners. Having pedals which aren't too chunky helps too.

If your existing chainring has an ovalised profile between the teeth
then you can end up with some play in the transmission which makes it
more difficult to learn trackstands.

Don't be tempted to remove the rear brake at least until you're
confident riding fixed. Until you have learned how to spin like a
hamster downhill, you'll need both brakes. The problem is that on a long
steep descent you need some braking most of the way, and this is a good
way of overheating the rim. Having two brakes means you can distribute
this, giving each rim time to cool off, with a bias towards the rear as
a rear blowout is much less dangerous than a front at speed downhill.
Then again, you may not have the urge to ride fixed in the hills.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

Jim Price said:

I used the DMR Revolver ss rear hub, and its worked very well with
a Dura Ace sprocket.

The Revolver, the On-One Inbred double fixed, and the Kogswell 135mm double
are all variations on the same hub shell, made by Kun Teng in Taiwan. I
also used a Revolver for a while, and had no problems. On-One had a sale on
their Inbreds, so now I'm using one of those.

Quoted message said:

The previous model is the one to get if you want to run it as a flip
flop hub, and there still appear to be a few left.

Just to clarify, the Revolver is a BMX-style flip-flop, with a full-sized
freewheel thread on one side, and a mini (BMX) thread on the other.

Quoted message said:

The new one has disk brake mountings which
don't look nice if you're not going to use disk brakes.

Another flip-flop option would be to use the disk mount as the fixed side,
as described here:

http://www.63xc.com/jasom/milldisc.htm

A few manufacturers (Boone Ti is one that springs to mind) are now making
sprockets pre-drilled to bolt to a disk mount.

James Thomson

James Thomson said:

Jim Price said:

I used the DMR Revolver ss rear hub, and its worked very well with
a Dura Ace sprocket.

The Revolver, the On-One Inbred double fixed, and the Kogswell 135mm double
are all variations on the same hub shell, made by Kun Teng in Taiwan. I
also used a Revolver for a while, and had no problems. On-One had a sale on
their Inbreds, so now I'm using one of those.

Just looked on the On-One site and they have an array of ss hubs at low
prices. I like the sliding dropouts too - is that what you've got?.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The previous model is the one to get if you want to run it as a flip
flop hub, and there still appear to be a few left.

Just to clarify, the Revolver is a BMX-style flip-flop, with a full-sized
freewheel thread on one side, and a mini (BMX) thread on the other.

Mine (checks) has full sized thread one side and both sizes on the other
side, but as I hinted, it may not be a current model.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The new one has disk brake mountings which
don't look nice if you're not going to use disk brakes.

Another flip-flop option would be to use the disk mount as the fixed side,
as described here:

http://www.63xc.com/jasom/milldisc.htm

A few manufacturers (Boone Ti is one that springs to mind) are now making
sprockets pre-drilled to bolt to a disk mount.

I saw one of those on eBay a while ago - it went for a price which made
me think I'll just drill 6 holes in a sprocket off a worn out cassette
(where the sprocket I want is one of the less worn ones).

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

Jim Price said:

Just looked on the On-One site and they have an array of ss
hubs at low prices. I like the sliding dropouts too - is that what
you've got?.

No, just the hub. It's on an old Kona with track ends.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The previous model is the one to get if you want to run it as
a flip flop hub, and there still appear to be a few left.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just to clarify, the Revolver is a BMX-style flip-flop, with a
full-sized freewheel thread on one side, and a mini (BMX)
thread on the other.

Quoted message said:

Mine (checks) has full sized thread one side and both sizes on
the other side, but as I hinted, it may not be a current model.

Of course I can't see your hub, but I think you're mistaken. When you say
you checked, have you measured the thread on the left, or tried to spin a
fixed sprocket onto it? On the older model DMR Revolver - the one that I
owned, and all others I've seen - the two threads on the left were a mini
freewheel thread, and a second smaller thread for a lockring that secured
the optional DMR disk adapter. On the 'flop' side you have the choice of
running a mini freewheel or the disk adapter, but not both, and not a fixed
sprocket or a full-sized freewheel.

James Thomson

James Thomson said:

On the older model DMR Revolver - the one that I owned, and all
others I've seen - the two threads on the left were a mini freewheel
thread, and a second smaller thread for a lockring that secured
the optional DMR disk adapter. On the 'flop' side you have the
choice of running a mini freewheel or the disk adapter, but not both,
and not a fixed sprocket or a full-sized freewheel.

Like this:

http://www.vorb.org.nz/images/attach/hub_157.jpg

James Thomson