flip turns sore back.

Quoted message said:

About a week ago I started to extend the glide out of my turn. I notice
that w/o additional effort, I would go from 17 to 15 strokes per 25yds.
The only problem was that I would start running out of air during the
glide, and I don't like the feeling. I had tried this before and
haven't een able to get my lungs to adapt to the extra effort (I cannot
stand hypoxy drills). Instead, I decided to explode out of the wall,
even though I would continue to swim slowly and relaxed. Well, it
worked great. I would come out of the water far from the wall and fast
enough not to run out of air. The leg explosion did not seem to get me
any more tired and my time in 2000 yds came down by a couple of minutes
without much effort. A couple of days after my leg explosive flipturns,
and my lower back is killing me. I did another swim where I would do
explosive turns. I noticed that I use my lower back musles a lot. I
arched considerably and extend explosively.

I am going to continue doing this. I think in a few more days my
muscles will adapt to the new effort and will not hurt anymore, and
I'll have a stronger lower back. However, it is interesting to me that
after doing flips for a gazillion years, adding this explosive trick
can get me so sore. I guess that age is catching up with me.

Just change your goal to take more strokes per lap, and suddenly you
have a new achievment to report. You had been taking 15 strokes per 25
yds, and now you have increased it to 17! You reached your goal!

Quoted message said:

I am going to continue doing this. I think in a few more days my
muscles will adapt to the new effort and will not hurt anymore, and
I'll have a stronger lower back. However, it is interesting to me that
after doing flips for a gazillion years, adding this explosive trick
can get me so sore. I guess that age is catching up with me.

Yes, it is likely that your lower back muscles aren't used to it, and
it'll get better before long. But do be careful; the explosive kick
also results in compression of the lower back, which isn't a question of
muscle strength. Be sure to stretch yourself out real good afterwards,
and if needed, enjoy some hot tub time and use a low-grade muscle
relaxant to keep them from spazzing out.

Chris Zakelj said:

Yes, it is likely that your lower back muscles aren't used to it, and
it'll get better before long. But do be careful; the explosive kick
also results in compression of the lower back, which isn't a question of
muscle strength. Be sure to stretch yourself out real good afterwards,
and if needed, enjoy some hot tub time and use a low-grade muscle
relaxant to keep them from spazzing out.

Thanks, Chris, and good point. I think that I have reasonably good
flexibility, but don't stretch much. I started to stretch after these
workouts. Also, I used to swim at a YMCA w/ a jacuzzi. Not not more ;-(
I swim at a public pool w/o one.

If my lower bakc doesn't stop hurting after a while, I'll have to get
into a serious stretching routine, or quit doing it.

Andres

Quoted message said:

About a week ago I started to extend the glide out of my turn. I notice
that w/o additional effort, I would go from 17 to 15 strokes per 25yds.
The only problem was that I would start running out of air during the
glide, and I don't like the feeling. I had tried this before and
haven't een able to get my lungs to adapt to the extra effort (I cannot
stand hypoxy drills). Instead, I decided to explode out of the wall,
even though I would continue to swim slowly and relaxed. Well, it
worked great. I would come out of the water far from the wall and fast
enough not to run out of air. The leg explosion did not seem to get me
any more tired and my time in 2000 yds came down by a couple of minutes
without much effort. A couple of days after my leg explosive flipturns,
and my lower back is killing me. I did another swim where I would do
explosive turns. I noticed that I use my lower back musles a lot. I
arched considerably and extend explosively.

When you are kicking off after a flip turn, the movement of your legs
resembles either a squat or a knee bend.

When you're doing a squat, you keep your feet flat on the floor and go
down until your butt is against your heels.

When you're doing a knee bend, you rise on your toes as you go down, and
go down only until your thighs are parallel to the floor.

Squats place more of a strain on your lower back than knee bends do, so
if you if you have any tendency toward back problems, you may need to
make your kick off resemble a knee bend rather than a squat. This will
mean not going quite as close to the wall before you flip, which may
make your kick off slightly less effective. But that's better than
being laid up with serious back trouble.

Now, it may be that your body will adapt to the turns you are doing, as
you suggested, in which case you can ignore what I've just said. But if
your problems don't go away, try modifying your kick off as I've
described and see if that helps.

Bob

Once again Martin cant read. Go stand in the corner and beat yourself to a
pulp and then come back and read his text again.

Marcel Meijer said:

Once again Martin cant read. Go stand in the corner and beat yourself to a
pulp and then come back and read his text again.

I read it ok. I was being sarcastic about the way Artindale always
changes his goal to be whatever he doesn't have to work too hard to do.

This is not Artindale posting this, I know he is a pain in the [censored] but
please then keep your sarcasm to post that he wrote, rip his guts out for
all I care, I stopped reading his [censored] a long time ago.

Marcel Meijer said:

This is not Artindale posting this, I know he is a pain in the [censored] but
please then keep your sarcasm to post that he wrote, rip his guts out for
all I care, I stopped reading his [censored] a long time ago.

Actually, I worry that Andres's lower back pain might not be simple
muscle soreness. If it were just due to muscle soreness, I think he
would have felt it the next day, instead of "A couple of days after."
This might be a pinched nerve or a disc problem. But I'm no doctor.

It sounds like he is rather fit so this could be that it only became
apparent a few days later, remember if you train very hard you become so
used to a little pain every day so the first two to three days you don't
even notice. Remember our friend Lance Armstrong and the big C? I am
starting to worry about you Martin: Do you always show that you care by
being sarcastic first or are you just a [censored]? It seems you can be nice, but
somehow you need to bite first.

Marcel Meijer said:

It sounds like he is rather fit so this could be that it only became
apparent a few days later, remember if you train very hard you become so
used to a little pain every day so the first two to three days you don't
even notice. Remember our friend Lance Armstrong and the big C? I am
starting to worry about you Martin: Do you always show that you care by
being sarcastic first or are you just a [censored]? It seems you can be nice, but
somehow you need to bite first.

No, I'm just a [censored].

Good, step number one complete yo admited the problem, now what are you
going to do about it. ;-)

Marcel Meijer said:

Good, step number one complete yo admited the problem, now what are you
going to do about it. ;-)

Stay the course.

Seems like you have been here before, try to commit this time around
"Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Marcel Meijer said:

Good, step number one complete yo admited the problem, now what are you
going to do about it. ;-)

Stay the course.

Marcel Meijer said:

Seems like you have been here before, try to commit this time around

I think that one went over your head.

Quoted message said:

"Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Marcel Meijer said:

Good, step number one complete yo admited the problem, now what are you
going to do about it. ;-)

Stay the course.

"Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Marcel Meijer said:

Seems like you have been here before, try to commit this time around

I think that one went over your head.

stop bein' a [censored] Smith 😉

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Marcel Meijer wrote:

>Good, step number one complete yo admited the problem, now what are you
>going to do about it. ;-)

Stay the course.

"Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Marcel Meijer said:

Seems like you have been here before, try to commit this time around

I think that one went over your head.

stop bein' a [censored] Smith 😉

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Marcel Meijer wrote:

>Good, step number one complete yo admited the problem, now what are you
>going to do about it. ;-)

Stay the course.

Robert, Marcel and Martin:

Thanks for all you suggestions. BTW, I did take Martin's remark as
sarcasm form another thread and didn't mind it.

Regarding my bakc pain, I was out of town for three days and haven't
swam since wednesday. My back has been sore since. It is getting
slightly better every day, so I am hoping that it'll go away. I am
hoping that it is muscle strain and that it'll go away completely and
that it got sore from the muscle fiber tears. Same as when lifting
weights after a long layoff and I end up sore for about a week. As
Marcel suggest, when I do a new effort, it'll take me a couple of days
to realize that I am sore from that activity. However, since this pain
is new, I am a little worried that it can be something more serious. I
hope not.

anyways, i'll give it a few more days and a couple of swims and I'll
report later. Thaks again,

Andres

PS: Martin, you don't need to stop being a [censored] on my account.

"I had a weak back ... about a week back" 🙂

Greatest line ever from the Power Ranger series.

You're doing the right thing. The best way to improve in a short
course pool is the turns. So attack the wall and swim a little slower
during the length is a great way to go. Have used it myself. That's
why I hate long course - it exposes all my weaknesses. Which is mainly
that I can't swim real fast.

Eric