Folding a spare tubular?

David Benoff said:

I've found a few descriptions of arcane methods for compactly
folding a spare tub, but have found them impossible to actually
follow. Anyone know where I can find an illustrated example on the
web?

I don't believe it is worthy of a picture but a description can be
found at:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/tubular-folding.html

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Folding ?
You should carry it this way.

http://www.kings5.freeserve.co.uk/bartali.htm

David B. said:

I've found a few descriptions of arcane methods for compactly folding

a

Quoted message said:

spare tub, but have found them impossible to actually follow. Anyone
know where I can find an illustrated example on the web?

I don't have a pic, but here's how I do it. Start with a pre-stretched,
pre-glued tire, of course. Begin at the valve stem and pull taught so
you have two parallel lengths, but instead of letting the base tapes
stick to each other, put a quarter-twist into the tire about 8" from
the end so that the treads on both lengths are facing up and running
side-by-side along one edge. Fold the tire around itself three more
times with the tread facing outward. You end up with a double coil with
a quarter-twist at the loose end, which snugs up nicely between the
saddle rails. I use a nylon velcro tie-strap (available at hardware
store/electrical supply) to secure the tire under the saddle.

Mike Krueger said:

Quoted message said:

I've found a few descriptions of arcane methods for compactly
folding a spare tub, but have found them impossible to actually
follow. Anyone know where I can find an illustrated example on the
web?

Quoted message said:

I don't have a pic, but here's how I do it. Start with a
pre-stretched, pre-glued tire, of course. Begin at the valve stem
and pull taught so you have two parallel lengths, but instead of
letting the base tapes stick to each other, put a quarter-twist into
the tire about 8" from the end so that the treads on both lengths
are facing up and running side-by-side along one edge. Fold the
tire around itself three more times with the tread facing outward.
You end up with a double coil with a quarter-twist at the loose end,
which snugs up nicely between the saddle rails. I use a nylon
velcro tie-strap (available at hardware store/electrical supply) to
secure the tire under the saddle.

Since we don't have a picture of this maybe you can explain what
benefit you see in this method, other than to get gutta all over the
tread and sidewalls. Proponents of this fold have claimed it has
benefits for the tread which lies outside of folds and thereby doesn't
suffer stress cracks as easily. This might be true if the tire is
carried continuously in that manner for more than a year or so.

As evidence, I have the last spare that I used more than 20 years ago,
still folded and tightly wrapped in a brown bag. I opened it the
other day and noted that it did not fall apart and held air. So much
for theoretical best folds. I'm for utility and the fold with the
base tape stuck to itself does that nicely.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/tubular-folding.html

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

You need to use a white Binda toe strap to hold it to your seat. Binda
"extra" is even better.

Quoted message said:

Mike Krueger said:

Quoted message said:

I've found a few descriptions of arcane methods for compactly
folding a spare tub, but have found them impossible to actually
follow. Anyone know where I can find an illustrated example on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

web?

Quoted message said:

I don't have a pic, but here's how I do it. Start with a
pre-stretched, pre-glued tire, of course. Begin at the valve stem
and pull taught so you have two parallel lengths, but instead of
letting the base tapes stick to each other, put a quarter-twist

into

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the tire about 8" from the end so that the treads on both lengths
are facing up and running side-by-side along one edge. Fold the
tire around itself three more times with the tread facing outward.
You end up with a double coil with a quarter-twist at the loose

end,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

which snugs up nicely between the saddle rails. I use a nylon
velcro tie-strap (available at hardware store/electrical supply) to
secure the tire under the saddle.

Since we don't have a picture of this maybe you can explain what
benefit you see in this method, other than to get gutta all over the
tread and sidewalls. Proponents of this fold have claimed it has
benefits for the tread which lies outside of folds and thereby

doesn't

Quoted message said:

suffer stress cracks as easily. This might be true if the tire is
carried continuously in that manner for more than a year or so.

What the heck is "gutta"? That red [censored]? Man, your age is showing. I've
been using modern rim cement (Continental) for over a decade. It dries
completely after application and does not transfer if touched. With my
method, the base tape does not stick to itself, stays clean, and the
tire folds smaller to fit under the saddle more compactly.
Whether you deem my method better than yours is irrelevant, since you
dislike tubulars anyway and don't use them. I also wonder if Avocet
still marketed tubular tires as they used to, might you have a
different opinion.

Mike Krueger said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I've found a few descriptions of arcane methods for compactly
> folding a spare tub, but have found them impossible to actually
> follow. Anyone know where I can find an illustrated example on
> the web?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't have a pic, but here's how I do it. Start with a
pre-stretched, pre-glued tire, of course. Begin at the valve stem
and pull taught so you have two parallel lengths, but instead of
letting the base tapes stick to each other, put a quarter-twist
into the tire about 8" from the end so that the treads on both
lengths are facing up and running side-by-side along one edge.
Fold the tire around itself three more times with the tread facing
outward. You end up with a double coil with a quarter-twist at
the loose end, which snugs up nicely between the saddle rails. I
use a nylon velcro tie-strap (available at hardware
store/electrical supply) to secure the tire under the saddle.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since we don't have a picture of this maybe you can explain what
benefit you see in this method, other than to get gutta all over
the tread and sidewalls. Proponents of this fold have claimed it
has benefits for the tread which lies outside of folds and thereby
doesn't suffer stress cracks as easily. This might be true if the
tire is carried continuously in that manner for more than a year or
so.

Quoted message said:

What the heck is "gutta"? That red [censored]? Man, your age is showing.
I've been using modern rim cement (Continental) for over a decade.
It dries completely after application and does not transfer if
touched. With my method, the base tape does not stick to itself,
stays clean, and the tire folds smaller to fit under the saddle more
compactly.

Mastice Gutta is the Italian term for tubular glue and it is still
found on the majority of rim glues, Vittoria, Pastali, Tubasti, and
others.

Quoted message said:

Whether you deem my method better than yours is irrelevant, since
you dislike tubulars anyway and don't use them. I also wonder if
Avocet still marketed tubular tires as they used to, might you have
a different opinion.

What does my dislike for using tubular tires have to do with how to
make, repair, store and fold them? The implication I detect, is if I
don't favor using them, then I don't know anything about them. You
seem to see a conspiracy behind my every word. I gave reasons for the
method I described and asked whether you had any to offer.

Do you find that unreasonable?

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since we don't have a picture of this maybe you can explain what
benefit you see in this method, other than to get gutta all over
the tread and sidewalls.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Whether you deem my method better than yours is irrelevant, since
you dislike tubulars anyway and don't use them. I also wonder if
Avocet still marketed tubular tires as they used to, might you have
a different opinion.

What does my dislike for using tubular tires have to do with how to
make, repair, store and fold them? The implication I detect, is if I
don't favor using them, then I don't know anything about them. You
seem to see a conspiracy behind my every word. I gave reasons for

the

Quoted message said:

method I described and asked whether you had any to offer.

Do you find that unreasonable?

The OP asked how to fold a tire, and I posted a clear, straighforward
technique. You chimed in, implying that my method would result in a
gluey mess, which is nonsense. Your comment suggested to me not a
conspiracy, but a lack of experience with modern rim cement. And, while
you consider yourself an expert on the subject, you do admit that you
don't ride tubulars, and haven't for years. So, sometimes the emperor
has no clothes.

Mike Krueger said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Since we don't have a picture of this maybe you can explain what
> benefit you see in this method, other than to get gutta all over
> the tread and sidewalls.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Whether you deem my method better than yours is irrelevant, since
you dislike tubulars anyway and don't use them. I also wonder if
Avocet still marketed tubular tires as they used to, might you have
a different opinion.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What does my dislike for using tubular tires have to do with how to
make, repair, store and fold them? The implication I detect, is if
I don't favor using them, then I don't know anything about them.
You seem to see a conspiracy behind my every word. I gave reasons
for the method I described and asked whether you had any to offer.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do you find that unreasonable?

Quoted message said:

The OP asked how to fold a tire, and I posted a clear,
straighforward technique. You chimed in, implying that my method
would result in a gluey mess, which is nonsense. Your comment
suggested to me not a conspiracy, but a lack of experience with
modern rim cement. And, while you consider yourself an expert on
the subject, you do admit that you don't ride tubulars, and haven't
for years. So, sometimes the emperor has no clothes.

So back to the question, what does your method achieve that the one I
described does not? If the tire has glue on it, as a spare tire must,
how do you prevent that glue from sticking to the tread and sidewalls?

Quoted message said:

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Do you find that unreasonable?

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

So back to the question, what does your method achieve that the one I
described does not? If the tire has glue on it, as a spare tire

must,

Quoted message said:

how do you prevent that glue from sticking to the tread and

sidewalls?

Hello-I've already explained it twice. Unlike the red, gooey stuff,
Continental rim cement does not smear once it has been applied to the
base tape and allowed to dry properly. It is a contact cement. It will
adhere to another similarly glued surface, but not to the tire's rubber
tread or sidewalls. If you won't take my word for it, go buy a tube and
try it yourself.
And, as for folding the tire, there is more than one way to do it. The
method I suggested folds the tire more compactly to fit under the
saddle. If this is not a consideration, then by all means, feel free to
do it your way. Oh, I forgot, you don't use tubulars. So, instead, feel
free to try to convince everyone that, based on what you used to do 20
years ago, you are the only one here who knows what you are talking
about.

http://www.andale.com/img/template.jsp

And interesting fold I've not seen before. I use a variant of this base
tape spiral fold which allows me to get two spares placed side by side
into a Jann saddle bag.

Greg Hall

MK wrote:

And, as for folding the tire, there is more than one way to do it. The
method I suggested folds the tire more compactly to fit under the
saddle.

Under the saddle?!?!

http://tinyurl.com/4j6rj

With any luck, on a hot day you can get gutta on your calves and
downtube, too. Besides going thirsty, that is.

It's been a good long time for me, but the old "put a sock on it" dodge
worked very well at keeping the red off (if you get that no-stick Conti
cement to work holding a spare on, more power to you). Two in the Jannd
bag, one or maybe two more held on the outside with the toestrap(s) of
choice, go ride the dirts.

There was a "white" cement (Pistali?) that was used to avoid the good
Clement Red bonding base tapes on new spares, which I saw yield a solid
"B" level bond on a rim bed of C Red at least once (B= good enough to
pass a manual "roll off" test, not the preferred "tool needed" A level
bond). --TP