Foot pain

"Bengt-Olaf Schneider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I could use a good measure of the wisdom of this group.

I am riding Pearl Izumi shoes on SPD pedals. After about 3-4 hours of

riding

Quoted message said:

my feet are starting to hurt along the outside in the front half of the
sole. It seems like I am pressing down on the pedals more with the outside
of my foot instead of the ball of the foot. (When running, I also strike

the

Quoted message said:

groud with the outside of the heel.)

I have been thinking of either getting shoes with varus wedges (like
Specialized BG) or installing LeWedge. However, it seems these devices are
intended to reduce knee problem .. which I don't have. So I am a bit
uncertain about what to do. I am ready to replace the entire show-pedal
combination (considering SPL-L for the increased platform), but I would

like

Quoted message said:

to get a better understanding of the problem before I spend money.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as this seems to
stand in the way of a successful double-century.

Thanks !

Bengt-Olaf.

I am bereft of foot problems too. I will share with you my understandings.

First of all try wider shoes if the ones you use aren't wide. I think Sidi
Mega are considered the widest. It sounds like you may be in a shoe that is
too narrow, Have you tried loosening the straps or laces?

Orthotics designed for running are not that helpful in cycling shoes. With
cycling the forefoot is what needs correction. I just went to a specialist
and for my problem they are messing around with metatarsal pads and bars.
The device I ended up with is much like what Specialized uses in their shoes
I think. But....orthotics like the ones I just got take up space in the shoe
which then adds to their tightness. A low profile carbon orthotic isn't an
option for me- I need cushioning under my toes.

Through the past few years I have settled on Sidi touring shoes which have
more flex than generally considered "good", and I use TA cage pedals and toe
clips.
I do hope to get into a clipless system, as the Sidi Touring shoes are no
longer available and there isn't anything close to replace them with. I also
have a double century in mind, and where as there'd be no way for me to do
it with the foot pain I have when using Carnac Legends and Look system
pedals, foot pain would not be the limiting factor with my present set up.
Interestingly I saw a photo of a pair of PI shoes and they look slipperlike
comfortable. Are they considered "wide"?

Good luck.

Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY

"Gary Jacobson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bengt-Olaf Schneider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I could use a good measure of the wisdom of this group.

I am riding Pearl Izumi shoes on SPD pedals. After about 3-4 hours of

riding

Quoted message said:

my feet are starting to hurt along the outside in the front half of the
sole. It seems like I am pressing down on the pedals more with the

outside

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of my foot instead of the ball of the foot. (When running, I also strike

the

Quoted message said:

groud with the outside of the heel.)

I have been thinking of either getting shoes with varus wedges (like
Specialized BG) or installing LeWedge. However, it seems these devices

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

intended to reduce knee problem .. which I don't have. So I am a bit
uncertain about what to do. I am ready to replace the entire show-pedal
combination (considering SPL-L for the increased platform), but I would

like

Quoted message said:

to get a better understanding of the problem before I spend money.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as this seems to
stand in the way of a successful double-century.

Thanks !

Bengt-Olaf.

I am bereft of foot problems too. I will share with you my understandings.

First of all try wider shoes if the ones you use aren't wide. I think Sidi
Mega are considered the widest. It sounds like you may be in a shoe that

is

Quoted message said:

too narrow, Have you tried loosening the straps or laces?

I haven't tried that because the shoes never felt too tight, but I will give
it a try
on my next long ride. I'm a bit concerned that loosening would undo some of
the
benefits of a clipless pedal system, namely good connection to the pedal.
But then, the best contact is worthless if the pain takes over.

Quoted message said:

Orthotics designed for running are not that helpful in cycling shoes. With
cycling the forefoot is what needs correction. I just went to a specialist
and for my problem they are messing around with metatarsal pads and bars.
The device I ended up with is much like what Specialized uses in their

shoes

Quoted message said:

I think. But....orthotics like the ones I just got take up space in the

shoe

Quoted message said:

which then adds to their tightness. A low profile carbon orthotic isn't an
option for me- I need cushioning under my toes.

Through the past few years I have settled on Sidi touring shoes which have
more flex than generally considered "good", and I use TA cage pedals and

toe

Quoted message said:

clips.
I do hope to get into a clipless system, as the Sidi Touring shoes are no
longer available and there isn't anything close to replace them with. I

also

Quoted message said:

have a double century in mind, and where as there'd be no way for me to do
it with the foot pain I have when using Carnac Legends and Look system
pedals, foot pain would not be the limiting factor with my present set up.

Good luck working up to that ride. I am dreading it a bit, but it seems like
like the next natural goal. And one can't be without goals, right.

Quoted message said:

Interestingly I saw a photo of a pair of PI shoes and they look

slipperlike

Quoted message said:

comfortable. Are they considered "wide"?

I don't think PI carries wide and narrow sizes. One width fits all.
The PIs I have are comfortable on the foot, but I wouldn't call them
slipperlike.
I may give Specialized or Sidi shoes a try. Do Sidi road shoes have any
built-in foot support like the Specialized? (I didn't find anything about
that.)

"Bengt-Olaf Schneider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Gary Jacobson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bengt-Olaf Schneider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I could use a good measure of the wisdom of this group.

I am bereft of foot problems too.> I may give Specialized or Sidi shoes

a try. Do Sidi road shoes have any

Quoted message said:

built-in foot support like the Specialized?

Rereading what I wrote: I am not bereft, but plagued by foot problems. Quite
the opposite of what I wrote initially.

Anyway, Sidi sock liners do not use any kind of metatarsal pad or bar. Not
sure if one would help you. Before trying anything else, I would suggest
simply going to the drug store and buying a metatarsal pad that can be glued
to the top of the "sock liner" in the shoe that you use. It'll feel wierd at
first, but it might help, and is worth a $5.00 investment. I use
felt/moleskin pads- got them from my wife who has access to them.. Never
seen them at a drug store where you usually find foam or silicon-like ones.

It is strange that good cycling shoes don't come with at least "neutral"
supportive sock liners- something that has a supportive arch and heel cup. A
good one that I have used is the grey "Superfeet" liner. I have all kinds of
orthotics, and actually ran a marathon with a pair of "orthotics" I made
that began as Superfeet. The grey version has the lowest profile of all
their models I think, and therefore most suitable for a low volume cycling
shoe.

The whole wedge thing probably would require a work up of your pedaling
style. I think that is usually done in labs where they attach lights or
sensors to your legs and feet and then look at your biomechanics. I'd think
a high level USCF coach could take a look at you and give you some ideas.

I still think loosening your shoes might help. I've had the pain you've
described years ago, and got relief from loosening the lower strap.

Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY

Quoted message said:

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as this seems to
stand in the way of a successful double-century.

Wedge 'em. Also you may have shoes too wide for your feet.
phil Brown

"Bengt-Olaf Schneider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I could use a good measure of the wisdom of this group.

I am riding Pearl Izumi shoes on SPD pedals. After about 3-4 hours of riding
my feet are starting to hurt along the outside in the front half of the
sole. It seems like I am pressing down on the pedals more with the outside
of my foot instead of the ball of the foot. (When running, I also strike the
groud with the outside of the heel.)

I have been thinking of either getting shoes with varus wedges (like
Specialized BG) or installing LeWedge. However, it seems these devices are
intended to reduce knee problem .. which I don't have. So I am a bit
uncertain about what to do. I am ready to replace the entire show-pedal
combination (considering SPL-L for the increased platform), but I would like
to get a better understanding of the problem before I spend money.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as this seems to
stand in the way of a successful double-century.

I had exactly the same problems, which kept me from going beyond a double
century for several seasons. A couple of easy things to try: first *loosen*
those straps! After several hours, slightly tight shoes (in width) can become
agonizing. It doesn't feel like your feet are being squeezed, but loosening
provides almost immediate relief. You may find, as I did, that ultra-cycling
means wearing your shoes almost "sloppy loose".

SPD cleats can be tilted by placing washers under one bolt. You may need
longer bolts for a lot of tilt, but they're easy to get in a hardware store.
Also try moving the cleats as far back as possible, this can reduce the amount
of pressure in the toe box.

I found the solution to my problems was to get wider shoes. I have somewhat
wide toes, but not a "thick" foot. I use a Sidi "Mega" MTB shoe to ultra with,
that's actually a size or so too big. I took up some of the excess volume with
a sorbothane (off the shelf) pad under the ball of the foot. This combo
allowed me to do 400Ks for the first time without suffering sore feet. It's a
tough problem to solve, because, if you're like me, no problems show up until
after many hours of riding, making trial & error quite tedious and time
consuming.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as this seems to
stand in the way of a successful double-century.

Wedge 'em. Also you may have shoes too wide for your feet.
phil Brown

Let me expand on this. I have very narrow feet and even with the narrowest
Sidis-which were the narrowest shoes made-my foot slid to the outside so I
wedged the cleats and that helped a lot without hurting my knees. Now that I
were custom made shoes all those problems have disappeared.
Phil Brown

Look at http://www.d2customfootwear.com/ A good pair of shoes and custom
insoles likely will obviate the need for a canting device like leWedge.

"Bengt-Olaf Schneider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I could use a good measure of the wisdom of this group.

I am riding Pearl Izumi shoes on SPD pedals. After about 3-4 hours of

riding

Quoted message said:

my feet are starting to hurt along the outside in the front half of the
sole. It seems like I am pressing down on the pedals more with the outside
of my foot instead of the ball of the foot. (When running, I also strike

the

Quoted message said:

groud with the outside of the heel.)

I have been thinking of either getting shoes with varus wedges (like
Specialized BG) or installing LeWedge. However, it seems these devices are
intended to reduce knee problem .. which I don't have. So I am a bit
uncertain about what to do. I am ready to replace the entire show-pedal
combination (considering SPL-L for the increased platform), but I would

like

Quoted message said:

to get a better understanding of the problem before I spend money.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as this seems to
stand in the way of a successful double-century.

Thanks !

Bengt-Olaf.

"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:PHCKc.111513$MB3.104397@attbi_s04...

Quoted message said:

"Bengt-Olaf Schneider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I could use a good measure of the wisdom of this group.

I am riding Pearl Izumi shoes on SPD pedals. After about 3-4 hours of

riding

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my feet are starting to hurt along the outside in the front half of the
sole. It seems like I am pressing down on the pedals more with the

outside

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of my foot instead of the ball of the foot. (When running, I also strike

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

groud with the outside of the heel.)

I have been thinking of either getting shoes with varus wedges (like
Specialized BG) or installing LeWedge. However, it seems these devices

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

intended to reduce knee problem .. which I don't have. So I am a bit
uncertain about what to do. I am ready to replace the entire show-pedal
combination (considering SPL-L for the increased platform), but I would

like

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to get a better understanding of the problem before I spend money.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as this seems to
stand in the way of a successful double-century.

I had exactly the same problems, which kept me from going beyond a double
century for several seasons. A couple of easy things to try: first

*loosen*

Quoted message said:

those straps! After several hours, slightly tight shoes (in width) can

become

Quoted message said:

agonizing. It doesn't feel like your feet are being squeezed, but

loosening

Quoted message said:

provides almost immediate relief. You may find, as I did, that

ultra-cycling

Quoted message said:

means wearing your shoes almost "sloppy loose".

You are the second person to suggest that might straps may be to tight.
I will give sloppiness a try.

Quoted message said:

SPD cleats can be tilted by placing washers under one bolt. You may need
longer bolts for a lot of tilt, but they're easy to get in a hardware

store.

Quoted message said:

Also try moving the cleats as far back as possible, this can reduce the

amount

Quoted message said:

of pressure in the toe box.

My cleats are already all the way back. But the trick with the washer sounds
like
an easy experiment to try. At least it will let me know whether wedges are
likely to
help.

Quoted message said:

I found the solution to my problems was to get wider shoes. I have

somewhat

Quoted message said:

wide toes, but not a "thick" foot. I use a Sidi "Mega" MTB shoe to ultra

with,

Quoted message said:

that's actually a size or so too big. I took up some of the excess volume

with

Quoted message said:

a sorbothane (off the shelf) pad under the ball of the foot. This combo
allowed me to do 400Ks for the first time without suffering sore feet.

It's a

Quoted message said:

tough problem to solve, because, if you're like me, no problems show up

until

Quoted message said:

after many hours of riding, making trial & error quite tedious and time
consuming.

Exactly ! That' s the biggest problem with all that. How often do I find 6-8
hours
to go riding ? Congratulations on the 400K. I have yet to tackle distances
like that.

Thanks !!

"Phil Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as this seems to
stand in the way of a successful double-century.

Wedge 'em. Also you may have shoes too wide for your feet.
phil Brown

Let me expand on this. I have very narrow feet and even with the narrowest
Sidis-which were the narrowest shoes made-my foot slid to the outside so I
wedged the cleats and that helped a lot without hurting my knees. Now that

I

Quoted message said:

were custom made shoes all those problems have disappeared.
Phil Brown

It is good to know that you can wedge without automatically incurring knee
problems.

I doubt that my shoes are too wide. .After reading the other posts, I now
suspect that
the opposite is true. The shoes fit comfortably when put them on, and I can
imagine that
the feet swell up a bit during the ride.

Thanks, Bengt-Olaf.

i have a theory

the foot doesn't get enough blood flow or nutrients
yet the foot has a fairly large nerve supply compared to the butt or
nose
and after a good nights sleep, the feet relax, joints expand
ahhhh
and then before getting up and out or climbing down, crawling out
and recrushing the feet
one can wiggle the toes, ankles, pre stretch
in fact after doing this for some time its possible to toe wiggle
automatically at 3am after the freight goes by
the practice is theraputic.