formative experience

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:37:23 +0000 (UTC), Ian Smith
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Well, I've just spent the evening in teh garage cursing hieroglyphic
assembly instructions in order to put together my daughter's first
birthday-present tricycle.

KMX Kart? ;-)

Guy
--
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you know? said:

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:37:23 +0000 (UTC), Ian Smith
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Well, I've just spent the evening in teh garage cursing hieroglyphic
assembly instructions in order to put together my daughter's first
birthday-present tricycle.

KMX Kart? ;-)

Sadly not - I shortlisted it, but management over-ruled it. I also
found a delta that was even lower than teh trice and was steered with
two levers swinging the whole back axle around a central pivot. That
was over-ruled as well.

Of course, since she'll only be two, neither would see much use for
the first five years of their life. No, we have a Kettler Happy Plus
(something like that) from Toys-R-Us sitting proudly next to teh
Trice in teh garage.

I will hurry to get my defence in first - it was after some weeks of
trying to find what we wanted in every local bike shop ("well, we've
got some in boxes out the back, but we're too busy to get them out at
the moment"😉. We even tried a couple of branches of Halfords before
sinking so low.

regards, Ian SMith
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Ian Smith said:

Well, I've just spent the evening in teh garage cursing hieroglyphic
assembly instructions in order to put together my daughter's first birthday-
present tricycle.
Now I know I must be a father.
regards, Ian SMith
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Ian, Hope your daughter enjoys the trike. Hope you enjoy helping her
learn how to ride it. Hope she goes on to love cycling.

Here's the patronising bit (sorry): bikes, especially children's bikes
are often sold as DIY items. The fact is, they need to be properly
assembled before ridden. Assembly instructions are generally inadequate;
you need to be confident (I'm not suggesting that you are not) that the
bike is assembled correctly. Unless you are really sure I would always
recommend seeking the assistance of a bike mechanic.

Ian

--

In message <[email hidden]>, wheelsgoround
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Ian Smith said:

Well, I've just spent the evening in teh garage cursing hieroglyphic
assembly instructions in order to put together my daughter's first
birthday-
present tricycle.

Quoted message said:

Ian, Hope your daughter enjoys the trike. Hope you enjoy helping her
learn how to ride it.

do you need hlp to learn how to ride a kiddies trike, my daughter seemed
to 'just do it' :-)

Quoted message said:

Hope she goes on to love cycling.

She did at least a mile on her's round the local park- which is a very
cheap plastic trike, she was given at about 1 year old. when presented
with a fairly steep 'off road' section, or a more gradual pathway, she
of course went for the steep rough bit - I have high hopes for her :-)

Quoted message said:

Here's the patronising bit (sorry): bikes, especially children's bikes
are often sold as DIY items. The fact is, they need to be properly
assembled before ridden.

Indeed they do, though for a kiddies trike like this you'd have to be
going some to mess it up - no brakes, no transmission etc.

We are supposed to be getting her a bike soon though

--
Chris French, Leeds

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 08:09:47 +0000 (UTC), in
<[email hidden]>, Ian Smith

Quoted message said:

So, there's a mechanism in there that will free-wheel and drive in
both directions. The annoying thing is, it's a sealed pre-assembled
unit and I can't get in to see how it works!

The management demand that you take a hammer to it (gently)

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Anything which is sent to me (whether intended or not)
may, if I so desire, form a legal and binding contract.

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004, wheelsgoround <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ian Smith wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, I've just spent the evening in teh garage cursing hieroglyphic
assembly instructions in order to put together my daughter's first birthday-
present tricycle.

Here's the patronising bit (sorry): bikes, especially children's bikes
are often sold as DIY items. The fact is, they need to be properly
assembled before ridden.

You can come and check over any of teh bikes I've built, if you
like.

Quoted message said:

Unless you are really sure I would always
recommend seeking the assistance of a bike mechanic.

The only bicycle maintenance/assembly task I don't do is frame work (I
do not have a brazing or welding torch, and if I did lay my hands on
either would be rather out of practice) and facing for headset races
(because I don't have teh appropriate tool, and I'd rather not bodge
it). In my experience, I make a better job of assembly than any of
teh local bike shops.

However, bicycle assembly abilities have little relevance to a childs
trike, on which the only standard parts are some of teh bolts - it
would have been easy were it a conventional bike. Furthermore, as I
said in my post (though not so explicitly, I admit) the local bike
shops declined to take my money on teh grounds that they were too busy
to bother with 'toy' trikes.

regards, Ian SMith
--
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|o o|
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chris French said:

Indeed they do, though for a kiddies trike like this you'd have to be
going some to mess it up - no brakes, no transmission etc.

Actually, there's a very interesting transmission in teh one we've
got. The front wheel free-wheels if you don't pedal and are just
pushed along, but then if you pedal they drive teh wheel. Fair enough
- that's what a free-wheel does. However, if you don't pedal but roll
backwards, it also freewheels, and if you pedal backwards it also
drives teh wheels backwards.

So, there's a mechanism in there that will free-wheel and drive in
both directions. The annoying thing is, it's a sealed pre-assembled
unit and I can't get in to see how it works!

regards, Ian SMith
--
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|o o|
|/ \|

Richard Bates said:

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 08:09:47 +0000 (UTC), in
<[email hidden]>, Ian Smith

Quoted message said:

So, there's a mechanism in there that will free-wheel and drive in
both directions. The annoying thing is, it's a sealed pre-assembled
unit and I can't get in to see how it works!

The management demand that you take a hammer to it (gently)

I think I shall wait 'till after her birthday...

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Ian Smith said:

So, there's a mechanism in there that will free-wheel and drive in
both directions. The annoying thing is, it's a sealed pre-assembled
unit and I can't get in to see how it works!

If I were designing one, I may consider something like the lawnmower clutch,
which has plates that spring out to make contact when the shaft is driven.
It would need some adapting to take the low spin speeds on a child's bike
though, and not be upset by jolting. Some form of centrifugally engaged
clutch may do it though.

- Richard

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_/ _/ _/ _/
_/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street,
_/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ Except in the Twilight Zone.

On Sun, 11 Jul, Richard Corfield <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ian Smith said:

So, there's a mechanism in there that will free-wheel and drive in
both directions. The annoying thing is, it's a sealed pre-assembled
unit and I can't get in to see how it works!

If I were designing one, I may consider something like the lawnmower clutch,
which has plates that spring out to make contact when the shaft is driven.

Radio control helicopters do the same. I suspect most engine-driven
radio control things that need a clutch do likewise.

Quoted message said:

Some form of centrifugally engaged clutch may do it though.

Anyway, I don't think that's what's in this one - really incredibly
slow turning of teh pedals engages it, and there's no feel of anything
gearing up or spinning inside. There is something engaging and
releasing - when you change from freewheel to driven, the pedals turn
slightly (something like 10 to 20 degrees) apparently freely before
whatever engages.

My opportunities for experimental investigation are hampered by the
fact that it's still top secret under cover at the moment. I haven't
yet tried freewhweeling while simultaneously pedaling at a speed
slower than teh freewheel. The other thing to try is what if it's
freewheeling forwards, and you start pedalling backwards - what does
it try to do then?

regards, Ian SMith
--
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|o o|
|/ \|

Ian Smith said:

My opportunities for experimental investigation are hampered by the
fact that it's still top secret under cover at the moment. I haven't
yet tried freewhweeling while simultaneously pedaling at a speed
slower than teh freewheel.

It sounds as much fun for adults as for children!

There are a few other ideas I could have, but more thought would be needed
to flesh them out.

Quoted message said:

The other thing to try is what if it's
freewheeling forwards, and you start pedalling backwards - what does
it try to do then?

Hopefuly try to slow down. I wonder also if it can be held on a hill without
moving.

Sounds an interesting mechanism - if practical on an adult bike, it would
mean reverse on the trike! 3 point turns would become possible without
having to pull on the wheels, push on the floor, or unclip my feet.

- Richard

--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard dot Corfield at ntlworld dot com
_/ _/ _/ _/
_/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street,
_/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ Except in the Twilight Zone.

11 Jul Richard Corfield said:

Ian Smith said:

The other thing to try is what if it's
freewheeling forwards, and you start pedalling backwards - what does
it try to do then?

Hopefuly try to slow down. I wonder also if it can be held on a hill without
moving.

Well, seizing the afternoon nap as an opportunity for experimentation
- it engages and teh pedals immediately try and drive teh wheel
backwards is teh answer. If you pedal in teh same direction but
slower than teh wheel is already turning, nothing happens (ie, it
stays disengaged). I didn't think about trying its holding ability
- I guess I'll try what if you engage it (by pedalling up a hill,
then slow and stop pedalling) does it stay engaged and hold.

Quoted message said:

Sounds an interesting mechanism - if practical on an adult bike, it would
mean reverse on the trike! 3 point turns would become possible without
having to pull on the wheels, push on the floor, or unclip my feet.

It's got no gearing, just 1:1 to teh pedals, but I guess it would be
possible to build it into a hub in place of a freewheel. However, to
give teh trike reverse you'd also need to get a deraileur running in
reverse, which they're not keen on. I have no idea how practical it
would be to combine it with a hub gear so you _did_ get a working
reverse.

Teh bonus is I didn't know it did all this when we bought it - I
thought it was just a plain direct-drive fixed wheel, when it actually
proves to have all this play value even before my daughter gets to it!

regards, Ian SMith
--
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|o o|
|/ \|

Ian Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

So, there's a mechanism in there that will free-wheel and drive in
both directions.

Some time ago somebody explained to me (on a unicyling news group I think)
about modern BMX hubs which do something very similar sounding to this.
Maybe they share the same workings? I suggest you take your daughter down
to the nearest half pipe and get her to try a few tricks :-)

Graeme

in message <[email hidden]>, Ian Smith

(') said:

On Sun, 11 Jul, chris French <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Indeed they do, though for a kiddies trike like this you'd have to
be going some to mess it up - no brakes, no transmission etc.

Actually, there's a very interesting transmission in teh one we've
got. The front wheel free-wheels if you don't pedal and are just
pushed along, but then if you pedal they drive teh wheel. Fair enough
- that's what a free-wheel does. However, if you don't pedal but roll
backwards, it also freewheels, and if you pedal backwards it also
drives teh wheels backwards.

So, there's a mechanism in there that will free-wheel and drive in
both directions. The annoying thing is, it's a sealed pre-assembled
unit and I can't get in to see how it works!

Presumably a clutch actuated by moving the pedals? A cam on the
crankshaft pushes the dog into engagement, and a damped response of the
dog prevents it falling out before the cam comes round again; if
pedalling stops the damped response allows the dog to continue to
retract until it disengaged? If my theory is right, then very, very
slow but smooth pedalling would result in intermittent drive.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; all in all you're just another click in the call
;; -- Minke Bouyed

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004, wheelsgoround <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ian Smith wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, I've just spent the evening in teh garage cursing hieroglyphic
assembly instructions in order to put together my daughter's first birthday-
present tricycle.

Here's the patronising bit (sorry): bikes, especially children's bikes
are often sold as DIY items. The fact is, they need to be properly
assembled before ridden.

You can come and check over any of teh bikes I've built, if you
like.

Quoted message said:

Unless you are really sure I would always
recommend seeking the assistance of a bike mechanic.

The only bicycle maintenance/assembly task I don't do is frame work (I
do not have a brazing or welding torch, and if I did lay my hands on
either would be rather out of practice) and facing for headset races
(because I don't have teh appropriate tool, and I'd rather not bodge
it). In my experience, I make a better job of assembly than any of
teh local bike shops.

However, bicycle assembly abilities have little relevance to a childs
trike, on which the only standard parts are some of teh bolts - it
would have been easy were it a conventional bike. Furthermore, as I
said in my post (though not so explicitly, I admit) the local bike
shops declined to take my money on teh grounds that they were too busy
to bother with 'toy' trikes.

regards, Ian SMith

I have to say I'm VERY impressed in the consistence of your mispelling
of the ;o)
--
..paul

If at first you don't succeed...
Skydiving is probably not the sport for you.