Frame Repairs

That big of a hole is a total failure in progress. The tube will tear
thru completely soon. When it does, there will be lots more damage to
the bike and maybe you too.
An experience frame builder can replace the downtube without too much
trouble. $100 or less for that. Looks like the bike could use a
repaint anyhow. $5 for a can at Kmart, $120 for powercoat, to $$$ for
a professional job.

The dent at the top of the steerer is an easy fix. Try a socket
extension inside the tube and tap or push the dent out.

The threads on the fork can be chased by any decent bikeshop. Far
cheaper than buying the threader or replacing the fork or steerer tube.

Cut it off and add an extension? Yoikes!

Quoted message said:

I was given an old (lugged SL) Marinoni frame which has two problems :

1. The downtube waterbottle boss was ripped out (maybe in a crash?)
along with a chunk of downtube.

http://www.midweekclub.com/temp/downtube.jpg

Should I try to repair this or leave it as is? I don't think it's a
structural problem since there was a hole there anyway, and trying to
patch it with brazed on material could weaken the tube.

Even though it's a nice frame replacing the tube won't be worthwhile if
a repaint is needed.

2 . Also I dropped the fork and dented the steerer.

http://www.midweekclub.com/temp/steerer.jpg

It's a threaded steerer. Can this be fixed easily ?

In addition the threads on the steerer are slightly damaged. Is a
steerer replacement a good idea ? What about cutting the steerer and
welding on a extension ? Can this be done safely ?

I like the flat crown and current paint on the fork, so I'd like to
retain those things. I wouldn't mind spending a bit of money on the
fork, I like it so much.

-Amit

[email hidden] ha scritto:

What about cutting the steerer and

Quoted message said:

welding on a extension ? Can this be done safely ?

Yes, provided you insert and weld together a chunk of tube, inside.
I have just had such a job done in Padova, for a friendly charge of 10
euros.

Sergio
Pisa

[email hidden] ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

An experience frame builder can replace the downtube without too much
trouble. $100 or less for that.

20 euros, in Padova.

Sergio
Pisa

Quoted message said:

I was given an old (lugged SL) Marinoni frame which has two problems :

1. The downtube waterbottle boss was ripped out (maybe in a crash?)
along with a chunk of downtube.

http://www.midweekclub.com/temp/downtube.jpg

Should I try to repair this or leave it as is?

Replacing the tube is the best fix, but fabricating a gusset to braze
over it (with an overlap of about 20mm all around) would probably be a
safe repair.

Quoted message said:

I don't think it's a
structural problem since there was a hole there anyway, and trying to
patch it with brazed on material could weaken the tube.

The hole is too large to ignore, and has corners; that's bad news.
Even if it was round, at that size, it's turning the tube into a
U-channel at that point, which will flex and fail.

Quoted message said:

Even though it's a nice frame replacing the tube won't be worthwhile if
a repaint is needed.

Looks like it's not worth repairing, then; a repaint seems to be very
much in order.

Quoted message said:

2 . Also I dropped the fork and dented the steerer.

http://www.midweekclub.com/temp/steerer.jpg

It's a threaded steerer. Can this be fixed easily ?

Sure. Just use the wedge of a stem to push it back out. Be careful
not to apply too much force, though; it's possible to split the steer
tube if you overtigthen the bolt with the wedge up at the top like
that.

Quoted message said:

In addition the threads on the steerer are slightly damaged. Is a
steerer replacement a good idea ? What about cutting the steerer and
welding on a extension ? Can this be done safely ?

If they're just slightly buggered at the end, a little work with a
thread file might be all that's needed, or chasing the threads with a
die would probably do the trick. There is no point in doing anything
more extensive; this is not a high-buck and/or rare-and-valuable part.
I do not know of anyone who would cut off the steer tube and weld on an
extension.

Quoted message said:

I like the flat crown and current paint on the fork, so I'd like to
retain those things. I wouldn't mind spending a bit of money on the
fork, I like it so much.

Worry about the frame first.

The fork looks o.k. and/or can be coaxed back into the right side with
a 1" tube inserted into the fork

The downtube is the highest-stress member of any bicycle; you will
undoubtedly need a downtube replacement. If you do not get the
replacement one of the corners of this hole will start to tear and you
may experience a suddenly, disastrous frame failure (of the worst
kind.)

Franklin Frames of Ohio can replace main tubes affordably ($125 +
shipping + extra for braze-on(s)), replacement include alignment.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

The fork looks o.k. and/or can be coaxed back into the right shape
with a 1" tube inserted into the fork, I did it to my fork (damaged in
shipment) using the handle of a large 10" socket wrench and a few hard
pulls. Be gentle, and your threads will probably start working again
with no re-tapping needed.

The downtube is the highest-stress member of any bicycle; you will
undoubtedly need a downtube replacement. If you do not get the
replacement one of the corners of this hole will tear and you will
experience a sudden, disastrous frame failure (of the worst kind,
e.g. possibly a deadly crash.)

Franklin Frames of Ohio can replace main tubes affordably ($125 +
shipping + extra for braze-on(s)), replacement include alignment. You
might be able to repaint the downtube for $10 if you can find some
good spray paint at a hardware store. Paints typically darken as they
dry so you will need dry samples of the paints to get a good color
match.

You might contact Marinoni in Toronto as they might be sympathetic and
might give you a deal on the downtube repair, including a downtube
repaint. Marinoni is the premiere canadian steel framebuilder, you
should try to preserve this cool frame imho. Remember that paints
change color over their lifetimes and so even the correct paint from
Marinoni will likely no longer match what's on the bike right now.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Quoted message said:

I was given an old (lugged SL) Marinoni frame which has two problems (snip)

http://www.marinoni.qc.ca/

If you don't have to cross borders (slow shipping post 9/11)-- back to
the source? --D-y

Quoted message said:

I was given an old (lugged SL) Marinoni frame which has two problems :

1. The downtube waterbottle boss was ripped out (maybe in a crash?)
along with a chunk of downtube.

http://www.midweekclub.com/temp/downtube.jpg

Ouch.

Quoted message said:

Should I try to repair this or leave it as is? I don't think it's a
structural problem since there was a hole there anyway, and trying to
patch it with brazed on material could weaken the tube.

That is a structural problem, unfortunately.

Quoted message said:

Even though it's a nice frame replacing the tube won't be worthwhile if
a repaint is needed.

Whatever you do to address this (tube replacement, sleeve reinforcement,
etc.) is going need paint anyway, even if it's just a rattle-can job
in the back yard. Down tube replacement is a pretty straight-forward job
and shouldn't cost much more than less desirable fixes.

Quoted message said:

2 . Also I dropped the fork and dented the steerer.

http://www.midweekclub.com/temp/steerer.jpg

Wow. Bad luck frame or something.

Quoted message said:

It's a threaded steerer. Can this be fixed easily ?

It should be possible to use a mandrel to straighten that out and then
chase the threads to clean it up. I'd consider this to be less of a
concern than that down tube.

--

John ([email hidden])

Can someone describe for me the procedure in replacing one tube of a lugged
diamond frame? Wouldn't you have to heat and disassemble all the joints to
get a single tube to slide out of the lugs? Or can you "spring" the frame
enough to force one joint open?

Leo Lichtman ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

Can someone describe for me the procedure in replacing one tube of a lugged
diamond frame? Wouldn't you have to heat and disassemble all the joints to
get a single tube to slide out of the lugs? Or can you "spring" the frame
enough to force one joint open?

No, not at all.
Once you cut and remove one tube, the whole diamond opens up a bit at
the other angles and there is no need to disassemble all joints in
order to insert the new one.
I was amazed myself, but it is really so.

Sergio
Pisa

Leo Lichtman said:

Can someone describe for me the procedure in replacing one tube of a lugged
diamond frame? Wouldn't you have to heat and disassemble all the joints to
get a single tube to slide out of the lugs?

As explained to me by a framebuilder, first you cut one tube in half.
At that point, the frame will flop around every which way, you don't
even wanna know how flimsy a frameset is when one of the tubes is
missing, it would scare the living cr*p out of ya.

Then you can either un-braze the joint (difficult) or grind the tube
out from within the lug (easier, especially if the frame was pinned
during assembly.)

Then you reinstall another tube. Again, you'd be surprised how
flexible the frameset is when a tube is missing, it's no problem to
get another tube into the joint, although the miters and interstitial
spacing in the joints may not be as good or as low, respectively, as
on an original frame. Then, braze it up.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Leo Lichtman said:

Can someone describe for me the procedure in replacing one tube of a lugged
diamond frame? Wouldn't you have to heat and disassemble all the joints to
get a single tube to slide out of the lugs? Or can you "spring" the frame
enough to force one joint open?

spring it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was given an old (lugged SL) Marinoni frame which has two problems :

1. The downtube waterbottle boss was ripped out (maybe in a crash?)
along with a chunk of downtube.

http://www.midweekclub.com/temp/downtube.jpg

Should I try to repair this or leave it as is? I don't think it's a
structural problem since there was a hole there anyway,

definitely repair. this is a serious structural problem.

Quoted message said:

and trying to
patch it with brazed on material could weaken the tube.

not necessarily. if it was done right, you might be ok. but tube
replacement is by far the most sensible course.

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Donald Gillies) said:

Leo Lichtman said:

Can someone describe for me the procedure in replacing one tube of a
lugged diamond frame? Wouldn't you have to heat and disassemble all
the joints to get a single tube to slide out of the lugs?

As explained to me by a framebuilder, first you cut one tube in half.

Definitely a case of "measure twice, cut once" here!

Quoted message said:

At that point, the frame will flop around every which way, you don't
even wanna know how flimsy a frameset is when one of the tubes is
missing, it would scare the living cr*p out of ya.

It's not quite that bad, but you can move things around quite a bit with
a missing tube.

Quoted message said:

Then you can either un-braze the joint (difficult) or grind the tube
out from within the lug (easier, especially if the frame was pinned
during assembly.)

If the frame was silver brazed, it's pretty easy to get the tube out of
the lug with a torch. Even if it was pinned it mightn't be too bad, if
the builder used brazing rod as the pin. If the builder used a nail,
which is not uncommon, then it's a nuisance.

Quoted message said:

Then you reinstall another tube. Again, you'd be surprised how
flexible the frameset is when a tube is missing, it's no problem to
get another tube into the joint, although the miters and interstitial
spacing in the joints may not be as good or as low, respectively, as
on an original frame. Then, braze it up.

- Don Gillies San Diego, CA

In article <[email hidden]>,

John Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

I was given an old (lugged SL) Marinoni frame which has two problems :

1. The downtube waterbottle boss was ripped out (maybe in a crash?)
along with a chunk of downtube.

http://www.midweekclub.com/temp/downtube.jpg

Ouch.

Quoted message said:

Should I try to repair this or leave it as is? I don't think it's a
structural problem since there was a hole there anyway, and trying to
patch it with brazed on material could weaken the tube.

That is a structural problem, unfortunately.

Quoted message said:

Even though it's a nice frame replacing the tube won't be worthwhile if
a repaint is needed.

Whatever you do to address this (tube replacement, sleeve reinforcement,
etc.) is going need paint anyway, even if it's just a rattle-can job
in the back yard. Down tube replacement is a pretty straight-forward job
and shouldn't cost much more than less desirable fixes.

This is the most desireable fix:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=130&subcategory=1176&brand=&s
ku=6064&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

http://tinyurl.com/d6nzs

A Marinoni is a nice frame. Maybe even a very nice frame. But that
linked all-aluminum super-generic house-brand frame is probably lighter.
And it costs $120. Maybe frame-builders work cheaply where you live, but
i think you'll have a hard time finding one who will do the job for that
much money, and a pro repaint will cost more than that again.

If there's sentimental value or the frame is a custom fit, it might be
worth it. For my part, I consider stuff like that nicely commoditized
Nashbar frame the perfect start for a sensible race bike.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

John Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

I was given an old (lugged SL) Marinoni frame which has two problems :

1. The downtube waterbottle boss was ripped out (maybe in a crash?)
along with a chunk of downtube.

http://www.midweekclub.com/temp/downtube.jpg

Ouch.

Quoted message said:

Should I try to repair this or leave it as is? I don't think it's a
structural problem since there was a hole there anyway, and trying to
patch it with brazed on material could weaken the tube.

That is a structural problem, unfortunately.

Quoted message said:

Even though it's a nice frame replacing the tube won't be worthwhile if
a repaint is needed.

Whatever you do to address this (tube replacement, sleeve reinforcement,
etc.) is going need paint anyway, even if it's just a rattle-can job
in the back yard. Down tube replacement is a pretty straight-forward job
and shouldn't cost much more than less desirable fixes.

This is the most desireable fix:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=130&subcategory=1176&brand=&s
ku=6064&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

http://tinyurl.com/d6nzs

A Marinoni is a nice frame. Maybe even a very nice frame. But that
linked all-aluminum super-generic house-brand frame is probably lighter.
And it costs $120. Maybe frame-builders work cheaply where you live, but
i think you'll have a hard time finding one who will do the job for that
much money, and a pro repaint will cost more than that again.

If there's sentimental value or the frame is a custom fit, it might be
worth it. For my part, I consider stuff like that nicely commoditized
Nashbar frame the perfect start for a sensible race bike.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Quoted message said:

From a strictly financial perspective you are indeed correct, if you

just want a working "replacement."

But there is no way generic aluminum ride quality is going to be
anywhere as nice as steel, and certainly not as nice as a Marioni. Not
to mention that out of box frame alignment on an aluminum frame is a
complete game of chance, with the odds in the house's favor (warpage
after heat treatment), and not correctable.

I'd agree with you that bike frames are commodities, but at least get a
replacement frame that is alignable (or aligned correctly out of the
box).

damyth said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

John Thompson said:

On 2006-07-20, [email hidden] <[email hidden]> wrote:

> I was given an old (lugged SL) Marinoni frame which has two problems :
>
> 1. The downtube waterbottle boss was ripped out (maybe in a crash?)
> along with a chunk of downtube.
>
> http://www.midweekclub.com/temp/downtube.jpg
Ouch.

> Should I try to repair this or leave it as is? I don't think it's a
> structural problem since there was a hole there anyway, and trying to
> patch it with brazed on material could weaken the tube.
That is a structural problem, unfortunately.

> Even though it's a nice frame replacing the tube won't be worthwhile if
> a repaint is needed.
Whatever you do to address this (tube replacement, sleeve reinforcement,
etc.) is going need paint anyway, even if it's just a rattle-can job
in the back yard. Down tube replacement is a pretty straight-forward job
and shouldn't cost much more than less desirable fixes.

This is the most desireable fix:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=130&subcategory=1176&brand=&s
ku=6064&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

http://tinyurl.com/d6nzs

A Marinoni is a nice frame. Maybe even a very nice frame. But that
linked all-aluminum super-generic house-brand frame is probably lighter.
And it costs $120. Maybe frame-builders work cheaply where you live, but
i think you'll have a hard time finding one who will do the job for that
much money, and a pro repaint will cost more than that again.

If there's sentimental value or the frame is a custom fit, it might be
worth it. For my part, I consider stuff like that nicely commoditized
Nashbar frame the perfect start for a sensible race bike.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Quoted message said:

From a strictly financial perspective you are indeed correct, if you

just want a working "replacement."

But there is no way generic aluminum ride quality is going to be
anywhere as nice as steel, and certainly not as nice as a Marioni. Not
to mention that out of box frame alignment on an aluminum frame is a
complete game of chance, with the odds in the house's favor (warpage
after heat treatment), and not correctable.

eh? where'd you get that "information"???. i own 3 nashbar frames so
take my word for it; alignment on each one is perfect. ride on the low
end ones is harsh, but the high end ones just dandy. do some homework
before making ill-informed sweeping statements of prejudice like that.

Quoted message said:

I'd agree with you that bike frames are commodities, but at least get a
replacement frame that is alignable (or aligned correctly out of the
box).

jim beam said:

damyth said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
John Thompson <[email hidden]> wrote:

> On 2006-07-20, [email hidden] <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> I was given an old (lugged SL) Marinoni frame which has two problems :
>>
>> 1. The downtube waterbottle boss was ripped out (maybe in a crash?)
>> along with a chunk of downtube.
>>
>> http://www.midweekclub.com/temp/downtube.jpg
> Ouch.
>
>> Should I try to repair this or leave it as is? I don't think it's a
>> structural problem since there was a hole there anyway, and trying to
>> patch it with brazed on material could weaken the tube.
> That is a structural problem, unfortunately.
>
>> Even though it's a nice frame replacing the tube won't be worthwhile if
>> a repaint is needed.
> Whatever you do to address this (tube replacement, sleeve reinforcement,
> etc.) is going need paint anyway, even if it's just a rattle-can job
> in the back yard. Down tube replacement is a pretty straight-forward job
> and shouldn't cost much more than less desirable fixes.
This is the most desireable fix:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=130&subcategory=1176&brand=&s
ku=6064&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

http://tinyurl.com/d6nzs

A Marinoni is a nice frame. Maybe even a very nice frame. But that
linked all-aluminum super-generic house-brand frame is probably lighter.
And it costs $120. Maybe frame-builders work cheaply where you live, but
i think you'll have a hard time finding one who will do the job for that
much money, and a pro repaint will cost more than that again.

If there's sentimental value or the frame is a custom fit, it might be
worth it. For my part, I consider stuff like that nicely commoditized
Nashbar frame the perfect start for a sensible race bike.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Quoted message said:

From a strictly financial perspective you are indeed correct, if you

just want a working "replacement."

But there is no way generic aluminum ride quality is going to be
anywhere as nice as steel, and certainly not as nice as a Marioni. Not
to mention that out of box frame alignment on an aluminum frame is a
complete game of chance, with the odds in the house's favor (warpage
after heat treatment), and not correctable.

eh? where'd you get that "information"???. i own 3 nashbar frames so
take my word for it; alignment on each one is perfect. ride on the low
end ones is harsh, but the high end ones just dandy. do some homework
before making ill-informed sweeping statements of prejudice like that.

This "information" is well-known (re. the alignment issue) and easily
verifiable to anyone in the business. You don't have any credibility
here if you don't know this. Go back and drown in your scotch.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd agree with you that bike frames are commodities, but at least get a
replacement frame that is alignable (or aligned correctly out of the
box).

damyth said:

jim beam said:

damyth said:

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article <[email hidden]>,
> John Thompson <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> On 2006-07-20, [email hidden] <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>
>>> I was given an old (lugged SL) Marinoni frame which has two problems :
>>>
>>> 1. The downtube waterbottle boss was ripped out (maybe in a crash?)
>>> along with a chunk of downtube.
>>>
>>> http://www.midweekclub.com/temp/downtube.jpg
>> Ouch.
>>
>>> Should I try to repair this or leave it as is? I don't think it's a
>>> structural problem since there was a hole there anyway, and trying to
>>> patch it with brazed on material could weaken the tube.
>> That is a structural problem, unfortunately.
>>
>>> Even though it's a nice frame replacing the tube won't be worthwhile if
>>> a repaint is needed.
>> Whatever you do to address this (tube replacement, sleeve reinforcement,
>> etc.) is going need paint anyway, even if it's just a rattle-can job
>> in the back yard. Down tube replacement is a pretty straight-forward job
>> and shouldn't cost much more than less desirable fixes.
> This is the most desireable fix:
>
> http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=130&subcategory=1176&brand=&s
> ku=6064&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=
>
> http://tinyurl.com/d6nzs
>
> A Marinoni is a nice frame. Maybe even a very nice frame. But that
> linked all-aluminum super-generic house-brand frame is probably lighter.
> And it costs $120. Maybe frame-builders work cheaply where you live, but
> i think you'll have a hard time finding one who will do the job for that
> much money, and a pro repaint will cost more than that again.
>
> If there's sentimental value or the frame is a custom fit, it might be
> worth it. For my part, I consider stuff like that nicely commoditized
> Nashbar frame the perfect start for a sensible race bike.
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
>From a strictly financial perspective you are indeed correct, if you
just want a working "replacement."

But there is no way generic aluminum ride quality is going to be
anywhere as nice as steel, and certainly not as nice as a Marioni. Not
to mention that out of box frame alignment on an aluminum frame is a
complete game of chance, with the odds in the house's favor (warpage
after heat treatment), and not correctable.

eh? where'd you get that "information"???. i own 3 nashbar frames so
take my word for it; alignment on each one is perfect. ride on the low
end ones is harsh, but the high end ones just dandy. do some homework
before making ill-informed sweeping statements of prejudice like that.

This "information" is well-known (re. the alignment issue) and easily
verifiable to anyone in the business. You don't have any credibility
here if you don't know this.

er, so you're trying to allege that i can't measure the alignment of the
frames in my physical possession??? what an "entertaining" concept!

next time emperor, make sure you have some clothes on. thanks.

Quoted message said:

Go back and drown in your scotch.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd agree with you that bike frames are commodities, but at least get a
replacement frame that is alignable (or aligned correctly out of the
box).