Frame spacing + campy 7speed question

jlee said:

I just picked up an expertly (hand) made steel bike with TSX tubing and
it has 126mm spacing.

I'd like to keep the current spacing so I could use either 7sp wheels
or newer ones.

Why not re-space it to 128mm? That way it would easily accomodate 126
or 130 hubs.

Art Harris

jlee said:

I just picked up an expertly (hand) made steel bike with TSX tubing and
it has 126mm spacing. I've read many of the past posts (including
Sheldon's DIY guide) and understand what's involved in changing to
130mm spacing.

I'd like to keep the current spacing so I could use either 7sp wheels
or newer ones. My first question is for those who have been using 130mm
hubs in 126mm spacing (for more than a year). Have you experienced any
issues with dropout alighnment (which is recognized to be very little
for 4mm diff), such as problems with bent axles, skewers...etc? I'm
about to have the frame repainted so would like to make a decision
whether or not to cold set to 130mm.

Ya know, you can more easily modify a 126mm hub to 130mm(add 2mm to
each end of the axle) than shove a 130mm wheel into a 126mm rear
end...'may' cause damage but 'cold setting' is so easy, the best way to
go, IMO.

Quoted message said:

Second question is regarding Campy 7speed ergopower. I have new 7speed
ergos that I can use with this bike. What cassettes does this work
with? Only campy cassettes or all 7speeds? I know Campy and Shimano are
interchangeable for 9/10 (and even 8 with modifications) but 7 speeds
are before my time.

Me thinks you are counting 7 clicks and assuming a '7s Ergo'..no such
animal. ERGO for Campag started at 8s..8s Campag spacing is 5mm ctr to
ctr. shimano is a bit closer together. Most freewheels are 5mm c-c. ,

Quoted message said:

Thanks,
Josh

jlee said:

I just picked up an expertly (hand) made steel bike with TSX tubing
and it has 126mm spacing. I've read many of the past posts (including
Sheldon's DIY guide) and understand what's involved in changing to
130mm spacing.

I'd like to keep the current spacing so I could use either 7sp wheels
or newer ones. My first question is for those who have been using
130mm hubs in 126mm spacing (for more than a year). Have you
experienced any issues with dropout alighnment (which is recognized
to be very little for 4mm diff), such as problems with bent axles,
skewers...etc? I'm about to have the frame repainted so would like to
make a decision whether or not to cold set to 130mm.

I've ridden a 126mm spaced frame with a 130mm axle, 700c wheels, for 16
years. It has horizontal forward facing dropouts, with screw adjuster stops.
My partner's bike is a 135mm width frame running on 130mm hub/axle, 26in MTB
diameter wheels, 7 years old. This has vertical drop-outs, like most
modern bikes.

Both bikes running on their original hubs, axles and skewers. Both are steel
frames (mine is Reynolds 531 double butted, hers is non-name CroMo), used as
tourers and ordinary daily transport. Mild occaisional off-road use on
gravel/dirt hard tracks.

Apart from needing to apply a little push to get the wheel into the frame,
the use of different axle lengths has had no noticable effect whatsoever.

I've also got a 7 speed screw-on hub in a 120mm width bike (old 27inch
wheels, 27 1/4 tyres), with no springing outwards of the rear end. I've no
idea how that fits, because everything I've read said its impossible.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

What-da-ya-know, Peter's right. I checked my ergos which I bought
advertised as 7sp. They do have 7 clicks which means they are 8sp
ergos. Thanks for the heads up Peter.

To respond to Art's comment to respace to 128, I don't think there's
any point as if I do respace, I'll go all the way to 130 (which again
we're talking only 2mm on each side for 126-130) or not go at all and
leave as is. I'm just accumulating more 7sp wheels and there's pretty
much no point in selling them as they're not worth much anymore so I'm
thinking of using them but I don't know much about freewheels (never
used'em myself) and their availability (or even if it's worth buying
them at all when 8/9 cassettes are so cheap ~30-40$).

Thanks Nigel for your response. I'm leaning towards leaving the 126 and
using both types of wheels. I think 'll put on Dura Ace 9sp down-tube
shifters that I have as a backup and use friction mode when necessary.

FYI, the frame is a Ryffranck which is hand/custom built by Mr.
Ryffranck who's in Sherbrooke, Quebec. I had a chance to speak with him
and though he does not build as many frames as he used to, he's still
does (only custom, of course, as always). Like a few skilled custom
builders, he said he's never done any marketing - just word of mouth
and he had plenty of stories of people who loved the bike he made them,
similar to Dave Moulton's website stories. Check-out:
http://www.extractmarketing.com/ryffranck/ for an outdated website that
has some info.

He used to be a tool maker and so his precision is absolute. (My rear
spacing is exactly 126.0mm). If anyone wanted a masterfully made custom
steel (1400~1500g for the frame), you should consider him. He doesn't
paint the bike himself (normally Marinoni (his close friend) does that
for him) as he is purely devoted to making the perfect bike, not
necessarily the best looking ones.

Finally, I was glad to learn that he's been building wheels for many,
many years and even spoke with (and learned from) Gerd Shraner in
Germany a few years back. He does soldering (the spokes) though he says
only few clients understand/ask for this. As many master wheelbuilders,
he warranties the wheels for life (the build, not the parts). I plan to
get two wheelset built by him (tub and clincher).

For the sceptics, I don't know him personally and will in no way profit
from my positive description of him.

Josh

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

jlee said:

I just picked up an expertly (hand) made steel bike with TSX tubing and
it has 126mm spacing. I've read many of the past posts (including
Sheldon's DIY guide) and understand what's involved in changing to
130mm spacing.

I'd like to keep the current spacing so I could use either 7sp wheels
or newer ones. My first question is for those who have been using 130mm
hubs in 126mm spacing (for more than a year). Have you experienced any
issues with dropout alighnment (which is recognized to be very little
for 4mm diff), such as problems with bent axles, skewers...etc? I'm
about to have the frame repainted so would like to make a decision
whether or not to cold set to 130mm.

Ya know, you can more easily modify a 126mm hub to 130mm(add 2mm to
each end of the axle) than shove a 130mm wheel into a 126mm rear
end...'may' cause damage but 'cold setting' is so easy, the best way to
go, IMO.

Quoted message said:

Second question is regarding Campy 7speed ergopower. I have new 7speed
ergos that I can use with this bike. What cassettes does this work
with? Only campy cassettes or all 7speeds? I know Campy and Shimano are
interchangeable for 9/10 (and even 8 with modifications) but 7 speeds
are before my time.

Me thinks you are counting 7 clicks and assuming a '7s Ergo'..no such
animal. ERGO for Campag started at 8s..8s Campag spacing is 5mm ctr to
ctr. shimano is a bit closer together. Most freewheels are 5mm c-c. ,

Quoted message said:

Thanks,
Josh

jlee said:

What-da-ya-know, Peter's right. I checked my ergos which I bought
advertised as 7sp. They do have 7 clicks which means they are 8sp
ergos. Thanks for the heads up Peter.

To respond to Art's comment to respace to 128, I don't think there's
any point as if I do respace, I'll go all the way to 130 (which again
we're talking only 2mm on each side for 126-130) or not go at all and
leave as is. I'm just accumulating more 7sp wheels and there's pretty
much no point in selling them as they're not worth much anymore so I'm
thinking of using them but I don't know much about freewheels (never
used'em myself) and their availability (or even if it's worth buying
them at all when 8/9 cassettes are so cheap ~30-40$).

Thanks Nigel for your response. I'm leaning towards leaving the 126 and
using both types of wheels. I think 'll put on Dura Ace 9sp down-tube
shifters that I have as a backup and use friction mode when necessary.

FYI, the frame is a Ryffranck which is hand/custom built by Mr.
Ryffranck who's in Sherbrooke, Quebec. I had a chance to speak with him
and though he does not build as many frames as he used to, he's still
does (only custom, of course, as always). Like a few skilled custom
builders, he said he's never done any marketing - just word of mouth
and he had plenty of stories of people who loved the bike he made them,
similar to Dave Moulton's website stories. Check-out:
http://www.extractmarketing.com/ryffranck/ for an outdated website that
has some info.

He used to be a tool maker and so his precision is absolute. (My rear
spacing is exactly 126.0mm). If anyone wanted a masterfully made custom
steel (1400~1500g for the frame), you should consider him. He doesn't
paint the bike himself (normally Marinoni (his close friend) does that
for him) as he is purely devoted to making the perfect bike, not
necessarily the best looking ones.

Finally, I was glad to learn that he's been building wheels for many,
many years and even spoke with (and learned from) Gerd Shraner in
Germany a few years back. He does soldering (the spokes) though he says
only few clients understand/ask for this. As many master wheelbuilders,
he warranties the wheels for life (the build, not the parts). I plan to
get two wheelset built by him (tub and clincher).

Gerd is the man, when it comes to wheelbuilding..

Quoted message said:

For the sceptics, I don't know him personally and will in no way profit
from my positive description of him.

Josh

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

jlee said:

I just picked up an expertly (hand) made steel bike with TSX tubing and
it has 126mm spacing. I've read many of the past posts (including
Sheldon's DIY guide) and understand what's involved in changing to
130mm spacing.

I'd like to keep the current spacing so I could use either 7sp wheels
or newer ones. My first question is for those who have been using 130mm
hubs in 126mm spacing (for more than a year). Have you experienced any
issues with dropout alighnment (which is recognized to be very little
for 4mm diff), such as problems with bent axles, skewers...etc? I'm
about to have the frame repainted so would like to make a decision
whether or not to cold set to 130mm.

Ya know, you can more easily modify a 126mm hub to 130mm(add 2mm to
each end of the axle) than shove a 130mm wheel into a 126mm rear
end...'may' cause damage but 'cold setting' is so easy, the best way to
go, IMO.

Quoted message said:

Second question is regarding Campy 7speed ergopower. I have new 7speed
ergos that I can use with this bike. What cassettes does this work
with? Only campy cassettes or all 7speeds? I know Campy and Shimano are
interchangeable for 9/10 (and even 8 with modifications) but 7 speeds
are before my time.

Me thinks you are counting 7 clicks and assuming a '7s Ergo'..no such
animal. ERGO for Campag started at 8s..8s Campag spacing is 5mm ctr to
ctr. shimano is a bit closer together. Most freewheels are 5mm c-c. ,

Quoted message said:

Thanks,
Josh

jlee said:

I just picked up an expertly (hand) made steel bike with TSX tubing and
it has 126mm spacing. I've read many of the past posts (including
Sheldon's DIY guide) and understand what's involved in changing to
130mm spacing.

I'd like to keep the current spacing so I could use either 7sp wheels
or newer ones. My first question is for those who have been using 130mm
hubs in 126mm spacing (for more than a year). Have you experienced any
issues with dropout alighnment (which is recognized to be very little
for 4mm diff), such as problems with bent axles, skewers...etc? I'm
about to have the frame repainted so would like to make a decision
whether or not to cold set to 130mm.

I've got a '81 Raleigh Pro w/ Campy horizontal dropouts, 126mm. Been
riding it for a couple of years now with a 130mm 9-speed Campy Veloce hub.

No problems of any kind, though probably only about 2000 miles on this
setup (It's now my rain-training bike). Just the slightest bit trickier
reinstalling the rear wheel after a flat, but no problem worth worrying
about. Oh, wait - I'm a bit short on chain clearance in the 52/13 gear,
but I think this is more due to the shape of the dropout/seatstay join
than the dropout width.

Mark J.

jlee said:

Quoted message said:

I just picked up an expertly (hand) made steel bike with TSX tubing and
it has 126mm spacing. I've read many of the past posts (including
Sheldon's DIY guide) and understand what's involved in changing to
130mm spacing.

I'd like to keep the current spacing so I could use either 7sp wheels
or newer ones. My first question is for those who have been using 130mm
hubs in 126mm spacing (for more than a year). Have you experienced any
issues with dropout alighnment (which is recognized to be very little
for 4mm diff), such as problems with bent axles, skewers...etc? I'm
about to have the frame repainted so would like to make a decision
whether or not to cold set to 130mm.

Peter Chisholm scritta:

Quoted message said:

Ya know, you can more easily modify a 126mm hub to 130mm(add 2mm to
each end of the axle)

That will work, but it would be better to stick all 4 mm of spacers on
the left end then reduce the dish of the wheel.

This would maintain the relationship betwixt the derailer and the
cluster, and would also make the wheel stronger.

Quoted message said:

than shove a 130mm wheel into a 126mm rear
end...'may' cause damage but 'cold setting' is so easy, the best way to
go, IMO.

I agree.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Second question is regarding Campy 7speed ergopower. I have new 7speed
ergos that I can use with this bike. What cassettes does this work
with? Only campy cassettes or all 7speeds? I know Campy and Shimano are
interchangeable for 9/10 (and even 8 with modifications) but 7 speeds
are before my time.

Me thinks you are counting 7 clicks and assuming a '7s Ergo'..no such
animal. ERGO for Campag started at 8s..8s Campag spacing is 5mm ctr to
ctr. shimano is a bit closer together. Most freewheels are 5mm c-c. ,

Shimano 8-speed is 4.8 mm. Pretty much everybody's 7-speeds were 5 mm,
though some SunTours were variable across the cluster.

8-speed Ergo setups work great with 7-speed clusters. Folks sometimes
wonder about an 'extra click' but there won't actually be an extra click
if the derailer's limit stop screws are adjusted correctly.

Sheldon "http://sheldonbrown.com/speeds" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. |
| --Theodore Roosevelt |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com