Frames Break At Rear Dropout?

Just toasted my second frame by breaking it at the same place as the first:
right rear dropout.

Anybody else have this happen?

On the first one, it was a steel road bike and the braze came undone. On this
one it's a ti FS and the weld came undone. Same place, though.

I'm thinking "Hmmmmm, 220 pounds, 180mm cranks, likes to lunge out of the
saddle on hills..... Maybe we should have a little proactive extra reinforcement
in this area next time around."

If so, what kind of reinforcement.... or is it probably just a coincidence?
--
PeteCresswell

"(PeteCresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Per John Forrest Tomlinson:

Quoted message said:

I've heard that riding with a broke axle can contribute to this -- the
idea being that the frame gets more stress. And I know it's possible
to ride with a broken axle with a quickrelease and spring on it for
quite some time w/o noticing it's broken.

Thankfully, not the case here. Rohloff hub, filled with oil... no
leakage.
--
PeteCresswell

This was a more common problem before the casette hub. The drive side
bearing on a freewheel hub is so far from the drop out that axle flex
and hence drive side dropout stress were both high. I broke several
axles and a nice Peugot frame before switching to casette hubs.

Phil H

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

And I know it's possible
to ride with a broken axle with a quickrelease and spring on it for
quite some time w/o noticing it's broken.

Not my experience. Mine always made quite a bit of noise, especially when
climbing.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | It is a scientifically proven fact that a mid life crisis can
_`\(,_ | only be cured by something racy and Italian. Bianchis and
(_)/ (_) | Colnagos are a lot cheaper than Maserattis and Ferraris. --
Glenn Davies

Per John Forrest Tomlinson:

Quoted message said:

I've heard that riding with a broke axle can contribute to this -- the
idea being that the frame gets more stress. And I know it's possible
to ride with a broken axle with a quickrelease and spring on it for
quite some time w/o noticing it's broken.

Thankfully, not the case here. Rohloff hub, filled with oil... no leakage.
--
PeteCresswell

(PeteCresswell) said:

Just toasted my second frame by breaking it at the same place as the first:
right rear dropout.

Anybody else have this happen?

On the first one, it was a steel road bike and the braze came undone. On this
one it's a ti FS and the weld came undone. Same place, though.

I'm thinking "Hmmmmm, 220 pounds, 180mm cranks, likes to lunge out of the
saddle on hills..... Maybe we should have a little proactive extra reinforcement
in this area next time around."

If so, what kind of reinforcement.... or is it probably just a coincidence?
--
PeteCresswell

Dear Pete, & list:
A picture of your (frame) failure would help in making a diagnosis. Is
the failure of the actual dropout or of the stay, or the joint between
them?

I had a customer who had what may have been similar problem with one of
my slalom frames. This kid, frame life was measured in minutes! He
failed to crumple the frame I built him, but was cracking the
chainstays ahead of the dropouts, a classic, ring-around-the-tube shear
fracture.

I put new stays on his frame and reinforced the stays with little
teardrop-shaped, half-round plates to spread the shear forces over a
longer run of tube. I put them on a lot of my frames now, call them
"Jake plates" after the young man who inspired them. Riders like you
get them.

Just my thought onthe subject.

jn

"Thursday"

(PeteCresswell) said:

Just toasted my second frame by breaking it at the same place as the first:
right rear dropout.

Anybody else have this happen?

On the first one, it was a steel road bike and the braze came undone. On this
one it's a ti FS and the weld came undone. Same place, though.

I'm thinking "Hmmmmm, 220 pounds, 180mm cranks, likes to lunge out of the
saddle on hills..... Maybe we should have a little proactive extra reinforcement
in this area next time around."

If so, what kind of reinforcement.... or is it probably just a coincidence?
--
PeteCresswell

I had the dropouts badly bent from a broken rear axle on one steel framed bike. Bent it back, took several tries. The rder also went throught and destroyed the plastic spoke protector disc. The rder tensionser seems damaged.

I previously had another steel framed bike that had an axle broke destroying the rder. Since the rder was destroyed on the second bike, I've not yet tried riding that bike.

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 17:22:51 -0700, "(PeteCresswell)"

Quoted message said:

Just toasted my second frame by breaking it at the same place as the first:
right rear dropout.

Anybody else have this happen?

On the first one, it was a steel road bike and the braze came undone. On this
one it's a ti FS and the weld came undone. Same place, though.

I'm thinking "Hmmmmm, 220 pounds, 180mm cranks, likes to lunge out of the
saddle on hills..... Maybe we should have a little proactive extra reinforcement
in this area next time around."

If so, what kind of reinforcement.... or is it probably just a coincidence?

I've heard that riding with a broke axle can contribute to this -- the
idea being that the frame gets more stress. And I know it's possible
to ride with a broken axle with a quickrelease and spring on it for
quite some time w/o noticing it's broken.

JT

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Remove "remove" to reply
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I had one that was bent and I rode it at least 50 miles before it snapped. I tried riding after it snapped but it was not rideable-was easily pushable.

I've had another that has got at least three hundred miles since I first noticed it bent, but not broken. There is noticeable increased turning resistance.

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

I've heard that riding with a broke axle can contribute to this -- the
idea being that the frame gets more stress. And I know it's possible
to ride with a broken axle with a quickrelease and spring on it for
quite some time w/o noticing it's broken.

JT

I did have a frame broken at the right dropout that was possibly caused by
riding with a broken axle. Or perhaps they broke at the same time? (The
frame broke on a climb.) I didn't notice that the axle was broken until
sometime later after the frame was replaced. The hub was a model with
cartridge bearings (the original Specialized model), so maybe that's why it
didn't make a racket.

Per [email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

A picture of your (frame) failure would help in making a diagnosis. Is
the failure of the actual dropout or of the stay, or the joint between
them?

On the recent FS, it was the weld between dropout and stay.

On the steel road bike, it was the braze between dropout and stay.

Too late for pix, I turned over to the tender mercies of FedEx this morning.
--
PeteCresswell

Quoted message said:

Dear Pete, & list:
A picture of your (frame) failure would help in making a diagnosis. Is
the failure of the actual dropout or of the stay, or the joint between
them?

I had a customer who had what may have been similar problem with one of
my slalom frames. This kid, frame life was measured in minutes! He
failed to crumple the frame I built him, but was cracking the
chainstays ahead of the dropouts, a classic, ring-around-the-tube shear
fracture.

I put new stays on his frame and reinforced the stays with little
teardrop-shaped, half-round plates to spread the shear forces over a
longer run of tube. I put them on a lot of my frames now, call them
"Jake plates" after the young man who inspired them. Riders like you
get them.

Just my thought onthe subject.

Thursday - which frame company are you with, and can you link us a
picture of the Jake Plates?
Thanks in advance.

(PeteCresswell) said:

Just toasted my second frame by breaking it at the same place as the first:
right rear dropout.

Anybody else have this happen?
--
PeteCresswell

Yes, I broke the drive side drop-out (genuine Campy part) that was mated to
my custom built Serotta Nova frame. This occurred at around 20,000 miles (1992.)

As a side note: Serotta offered to replace the drop-out for free; but wanted over
$300 to repaint the bike one single stage color (white.)
To add to the story, at the time I was using 126mm Campy Victory hubs. I managed to
break two axles a year on that bike with those hubs. After the rebuild I switched
to Chorus hubs, haven't broken an axle since.
--
Tp,

-------- __o
----- -\<. -------- __o
--- ( )/ ( ) ---- -\<.
-------------------- ( )/ ( )
-----------------------------------------

No Lawsuit Ever Fixed A Moron...

"TomP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(PeteCresswell) said:

Just toasted my second frame by breaking it at the same place as the
first:
right rear dropout.
Anybody else have this happen?
PeteCresswell

Quoted message said:

Yes, I broke the drive side drop-out (genuine Campy part) that was
mated to
my custom built Serotta Nova frame. This occurred at around 20,000 miles
(1992.)
As a side note: Serotta offered to replace the drop-out for free; but
wanted over
$300 to repaint the bike one single stage color (white.)
To add to the story, at the time I was using 126mm Campy Victory hubs. I
managed to
break two axles a year on that bike with those hubs. After the rebuild I
switched
to Chorus hubs, haven't broken an axle since.
Tp,

riding with a bent or broken hub axle is the usual cause of this.
e-RICHIE