Frames: Chinese/Italian/US???????

janiejones said:

Hello,

I hear, and read, a lot about the need for an Italian, US, French etc frame over a mass produced Chinese frame. My favorite bike is a mass produced Fetish Cycles SAC 7005 Al(Taiwan) frame, I can't imagine there being a frame much better for me - but I'm sure there must be, what am I missing out on. I've only ever ridden road bikes of this level, Giant OCR2 (6061), Lemond Nevada City (6061) and an old Cro-mo Puch.

So, what is the difference. I know the difference in weight, carbon fibre vs aluminium etc. But compared with an expensive Aluminium frame such as a Cannondale or a British Rourke to a cheap Fetish SAC -what benefits would I notice if I were to buy one.

Nothing much. It's all in the mind. The benefit in terms of price will actually be in favor of the chinese made frame. Even the Colnago Arte is now made in China.

Everything is made in China (Red and Taiwan) now. So long as it is good quality country of origin is moot. Take a look at CSK frames, a great higher end product.

http://www.seigler-imports.com/road.shtml

By Chinese do you mean Taiwan?

capwater said:

Everything is made in China (Red and Taiwan) now. So long as it is good quality country of origin is moot. Take a look at CSK frames, a great higher end product.

http://www.seigler-imports.com/road.shtml

First there's the PRC (People's Republic of China, aka China), and there's the Republic of China, aka Taiwan. Americans, ever ignorant of world affairs can never keep such things straight. And FWIW, "red" is such a load of McCarthy-era [censored]. In Russian, red and beautiful, are the same word. Red Square is to the Russians, Beautiful Square. So if you take fear mongering and political machination out of the loop, during the cold war our opponent was the "beautiful menace."

Second, everything is not made in the Far East. This is a patently stupid assumption, sounding a lot like what some union might want someone to think. It's a statement that's usually made when someone is too lazy or intellectually incapable of understanding the real circumstances.

A lot of production does happen in the Far East. The difference in quality between products from the Far East, Italy, Germany, the US of By God A, or where ever, is non-existent. Certainly there are and can be price differences, and some people attach some emotional cachet to products from a given country.

janiejones said:

Hello,

I hear, and read, a lot about the need for an Italian, US, French etc frame over a mass produced Chinese frame. My favorite bike is a mass produced Fetish Cycles SAC 7005 Al(Taiwan) frame, I can't imagine there being a frame much better for me - but I'm sure there must be, what am I missing out on. I've only ever ridden road bikes of this level, Giant OCR2 (6061), Lemond Nevada City (6061) and an old Cro-mo Puch.

So, what is the difference. I know the difference in weight, carbon fibre vs aluminium etc. But compared with an expensive Aluminium frame such as a Cannondale or a British Rourke to a cheap Fetish SAC -what benefits would I notice if I were to buy one.

What ever rocks your boat is right and good. If you like riding the bikes you have chosen then life is good. Lot of people, coffee shop posers, like to spout off about this or that like they really know something, but notice whether they are talking to you or at you. I happen to like Italian steel frames (retro) but, I also own a Columbus Foco (modern light steel) frame and 2 Ti bikes (compact), no Aluminum frames. But, that is not a statement on Al. Just ride your bikes and enjoy them that is what it is all about...speaking of riding I am going out just now for a ride.

Mariner Fan said:

By Chinese do you mean Taiwan?

Yes, sorry - hope I didn't offend anyone.

Also, I wasn't really being specific as to origin of frames - but I will often hear people say in a very general way, '"Euro" made frames are "better" than "Asian" frames'.

But yes, my Fetish was made in Taiwan.

I could care less where something is made. As long as the quality is there, and the people/person that was making it put some love into it, and actually cared about what he was doing. That being said, I couldn't imagine frames made "over there" or for that matter in any place that makes mass produced products, being any good.

Now it might be a beautiful bike and that is good, but there are some instances that you pay too much, for a bike/frame that was made in the same factory as a identical bike, for half as much. That is what I don't tolerate. Overpriced, mass produced, un-loved products from greedy companies that only want money. 🙄

Other than that I am fine, as long as the bike is sexy.....😉

free_rideman said:

I could care less where something is made. As long as the quality is there, and the people/person that was making it put some love into it, and actually cared about what he was doing. That being said, I couldn't imagine frames made "over there" or for that matter in any place that makes mass produced products, being any good.

Now it might be a beautiful bike and that is good, but there are some instances that you pay too much, for a bike/frame that was made in the same factory as a identical bike, for half as much. That is what I don't tolerate. Overpriced, mass produced, un-loved products from greedy companies that only want money. 🙄

Other than that I am fine, as long as the bike is sexy.....😉

I was at a bike show recently and local frame builder Ted Wojcik was there displaying some beautiful hand made lugged steel frames. I don't own a Wojcik (yet), but there is definitely something cool about talking to the guy who built your bike and he's as proud as a new papa. Mass produced frames... you can have them.

free_rideman said:

I could care less where something is made. As long as the quality is there, and the people/person that was making it put some love into it, and actually cared about what he was doing. That being said, I couldn't imagine frames made "over there" or for that matter in any place that makes mass produced products, being any good.

Now it might be a beautiful bike and that is good, but there are some instances that you pay too much, for a bike/frame that was made in the same factory as a identical bike, for half as much. That is what I don't tolerate. Overpriced, mass produced, un-loved products from greedy companies that only want money. 🙄

Other than that I am fine, as long as the bike is sexy.....😉

So you don't care about weight, compliance, stiffness or any of the other factors that have anything to do with actually riding the bike.

Nope, read the post: As long as it's sexy! :p

Honestly don't know if you are joking or not (kind of bad at that), but clearly by putting "love" into a frame, then the frame will "love" you back. And then everyone is happy as can be. Yay! So then things like weight, compliance, stiffness, and other stuff are perfect!

Custom bikes are hot too! Some super loving is put into those puppies. Hopefully at least.🙄

janiejones said:

Yes, sorry - hope I didn't offend anyone.

Also, I wasn't really being specific as to origin of frames - but I will often hear people say in a very general way, '"Euro" made frames are "better" than "Asian" frames'.
But yes, my Fetish was made in Taiwan.

You didn't offend...if you like your bike then you like it and there is no need to compare other nations bikes. If you are into hand built bikes like I am, it is just my preference. That being said I have seen some frames from asia that are very well put together and are well designed. So don't be put off by anyone with an agenda.
At one time Titanium and Aluminum bikes has terrible reputations as poorly riding bikes. Aluminum bikes rode like they were built out of fence posts, hard, stiff, unyielding to the road vibration. Titanium were like riding spagetti. And the prevailing opinion was that a hand built steel bike was the best. Time marches on and designs have improved greatly for all bike materials. Now I own a Ti bike in my collection and someday will probably have an Al bike. Some people live well in the past and haven't experienced the newer designs in Al and continue to rail against the material. Enjoy your ride.

free_rideman said:

Nope, read the post: As long as it's sexy! :p

Honestly don't know if you are joking or not (kind of bad at that), but clearly by putting "love" into a frame, then the frame will "love" you back. And then everyone is happy as can be. Yay! So then things like weight, compliance, stiffness, and other stuff are perfect!

Custom bikes are hot too! Some super loving is put into those puppies. Hopefully at least.🙄

I think you are looking for the astrology forum. 😉