Frequency or Distance First?

Keith said:

I am coming back from a long layoff, and am back to comfortably running
30 minutes every other day. This seems to agree with me recovery-wise
(I tend to get some soreness in my knees if I string consecutive days
together), I plan to do this a while longer to build back a good base
(and losing some more weight). My ultimate goal is to be running 45
minutes, 5-6 days a week (perhaps with a long run thrown in). When I
start to increase mileage, am I better off upping the frequency first,
so I am running 30 minutes 5-6 days a week and then increasing the
length of each run, or increasing my distances first and adding days
later?

What was the reason for the layoff? Were you injured? Knee problems?
This could be something to consider when increasing your running. When
increasing long runs and adding days per week you should keep in mind
that you shouldn't increase your weekly total by much more than 5 or
10% per week and your weekly long should be around 30% of your weekly
total. In order to do that you'll need to cut back on the other two
days and add some to the long run. When base building most of your runs
should be at an easy "conversational" pace. That is you should be able
to carry on a conversation without getting winded.

Increasing to 4 days per week, increasing the long run, cutting back on
the easy days:
Day 1 off
Day 2 25
Day 3 off
Day 4 20
Day 5 20
Day 6 off
Day 7 35
Total 100

Then add some time to the easy days:
Day 1 off
Day 2 25
Day 3 off
Day 4 25
Day 5 20
Day 6 off
Day 7 35
Total 105

Followed by:
Day 1 off
Day 2 30
Day 3 off
Day 4 25
Day 5 25
Day 6 off
Day 7 35
Total 115

Then add another day, but cut back a bit on some of the easy days:
Day 1 off
Day 2 20
Day 3 25
Day 4 20
Day 5 off
Day 6 20
Day 7 35
Total 120

Try to do everything gradually. If you add a day of running, then you
need to cut back on the time, then start adding more time, then add
another day, then increase your long run, but cut back on the other
days, etc. Also, during your build up you should cut back every 3rd or
4th week to 30% less than the previous week. This will aid in recovery
and decrease the chances of injury. So your weekly totals could be
something like 100, 105, 115, 120, 85, 120, 130, etc. Of course there
are all sorts of ways of increasing your training, this is just one
example. Consider getting a book on running such as the classic "The
Runner's Handbook" by Bob glover - http://tinyurl.com/r8f2u

--
Phil M.

Never really had much trouble with injuries; just fell out of the
habit. Mostly just for fitness - at my peak I ran maybe 15-20 miles a
week, and participated in a few 5 and 10Ks here and there. I'm still
pretty fit, just about 20-25 pounds heavier.

I'm famiiar with the general rules of thumb for mileage increases and I
have Glover's book. I was just curious if I should get one thing up to
speed before the other. It looks like you are advocating increasing
both simultaneously but gradually. Is that correct?

Keith said:

I am coming back from a long layoff, and am back to comfortably running
30 minutes every other day. This seems to agree with me recovery-wise
(I tend to get some soreness in my knees if I string consecutive days
together), I plan to do this a while longer to build back a good base
(and losing some more weight). My ultimate goal is to be running 45
minutes, 5-6 days a week (perhaps with a long run thrown in). When I
start to increase mileage, am I better off upping the frequency first,
so I am running 30 minutes 5-6 days a week and then increasing the
length of each run, or increasing my distances first and adding days
later?

I generally agree with much of what Phil said about adding gradually,
but if you're having some soreness on consecutive days, I'd (my opinion
only) gradually add time (5 min?) one day a week, then 2 days, etc. My
thinking is that some people may take 10+ minutes to get warmed up and
runs much shorter than 30 min may involve more overhead (dressing,
warming up, getting some place to run, etc) than running. When up to say
40-45 min, then perhaps consider splitting one day in two, etc, like
Phil's suggestions.

BUT it depends on YOUR recovery time between runs and possibly if the
soreness is something that's going to happen whether you run 20 or 40
min. You might try a week adding time and another increasing frequency
(and reducing time of each run). You may be able to tell in a week or
two (probably less) which your body tolerates better.

Yes, I'm an every other day runner for the most part (occasionally 2
days in row) - and that's what works for me. 😉 (other activities like
xc skiing or trail work may occur on the other days)

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Quoted message said:

Never really had much trouble with injuries; just fell out of the
habit. Mostly just for fitness - at my peak I ran maybe 15-20 miles a
week, and participated in a few 5 and 10Ks here and there. I'm still
pretty fit, just about 20-25 pounds heavier.

I'm famiiar with the general rules of thumb for mileage increases and I
have Glover's book. I was just curious if I should get one thing up to
speed before the other. It looks like you are advocating increasing
both simultaneously but gradually. Is that correct?

I was in your exact situation. I increased frequency first. No
science there, just the convenience of a work place lunch break run
that could be done every day but limited the time each. Later on I
shifted to morning runs and pushed up the distance. I don't know if
it was right but it worked. Now semi-retired, I run 6/7 days a week;
30 miles per week, normally during the best weather slot on any given
day.

Over time I lost my 25 pounds. And pace went from an original 10:30
min/mile to a competition pace of about 7:55 with a training pace
about a minute slower depending on the surface. Those times are still
slow, but I'm 59 so do OK in age bracket competing locally.

I think either way will work, but my theory is you should do what you
like because that will keep you from quitting again. I only compete
because it helps hold my interest and the next race gives me a goal to
keep up the training.

Good luck and stay with it.

Frank

Quoted message said:

Never really had much trouble with injuries; just fell out of the
habit. Mostly just for fitness - at my peak I ran maybe 15-20 miles a
week, and participated in a few 5 and 10Ks here and there. I'm still
pretty fit, just about 20-25 pounds heavier.

I'm famiiar with the general rules of thumb for mileage increases and I
have Glover's book. I was just curious if I should get one thing up to
speed before the other. It looks like you are advocating increasing
both simultaneously but gradually. Is that correct?

Correct. As Dot said, with the potential recovery issue, consider
upping the time per day first for a few weeks. But when you do add a
day, make sure you are not icreasing your total weekly time too much.
That's why I would cut back on the daily times when you add a day. You
don't want to shock your system by adding too many variables at the
same time.

--
Phil M.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Keith said:

I am coming back from a long layoff, and am back to comfortably running
30 minutes every other day. This seems to agree with me recovery-wise
(I tend to get some soreness in my knees if I string consecutive days
together), I plan to do this a while longer to build back a good base
(and losing some more weight). My ultimate goal is to be running 45
minutes, 5-6 days a week (perhaps with a long run thrown in). When I
start to increase mileage, am I better off upping the frequency first,
so I am running 30 minutes 5-6 days a week and then increasing the
length of each run, or increasing my distances first and adding days
later?

For me, distance first, then days. But, perhaps, with a catch.
The thing is, say you get to 3x45 minutes. The next step is something
like 40, off, 30, 30, off, 35, off, not 4x45. Since adding days is
something I have to be conservative about, when I do start introducing
back to back days, I do so only with a pair of relatively short runs.
Then start ramping up the new 4 day a week schedule, in your case
to 4x45. And then take same idea to 5 days (45, 45, off, 30, 30, 30, off)
etc.

For me, the distance first is because the extra recovery time is
useful, and because I don't need much more time to recover from a
60 minute run than a 30 minute.

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences