Full Suspension question

"Jeff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm in the market for a new bike-- a new full-suspension bike ... my
local Specialized dealer tells me their line of bikes are the best
because of the "Horst Link."

...and yeah, I googled the term and read enough to know that it seems
like the sure way to go.

-- but I favour the new GF HiFi Pro

http://www.go-hifi.com/

So what's the prevaling wisdom...?

I'm looking to buy (21 inch bike) in the next week or so

fwiw, I'm 6-feet tall - 180 lbs - used to race at the Cat 2 level and
I'm still reasonably fit (strong)

Hi Jeff

Personally I've not ridden the Fisher. I have a Stumpy FSR; it suits me
just fine and I think it's lovely. I'd suggest having a go on a Giant
with 'Maestro' suspension if you can find one locally. The one I took
off-road felt great (didn't bob, excellent traction, comfy ride).

The feel of a suspension bike is very subjective, so ride anything off road
(and change settings) before parting with your cash. If you've ridden both
and prefer the HiFi, go with that.

FWIW, Trek/Fisher and Specialized are pretty good companies to do business
with in my experience. Giant are good, but not quite as good.

Happy trails.

Skippy
E&OE

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jeff)

Quoted message said:

I'm in the market for a new bike-- a new full-suspension bike ... my
local Specialized dealer tells me their line of bikes are the best
because of the "Horst Link."

...and yeah, I googled the term and read enough to know that it seems
like the sure way to go.

-- but I favour the new GF HiFi Pro

http://www.go-hifi.com/

So what's the prevaling wisdom...?

It's new, it's shiny, and the flash presentation is highly convincing.
I'd say there's no easy way of knowing, and you should go for a test
ride.

But then again, I'm in love with my 'cross bike.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Jeff said:

I'm in the market for a new bike-- a new full-suspension bike ... my
local Specialized dealer tells me their line of bikes are the best
because of the "Horst Link."

...and yeah, I googled the term and read enough to know that it seems
like the sure way to go.

-- but I favour the new GF HiFi Pro

http://www.go-hifi.com/

So what's the prevaling wisdom...?

There's no prevailing wisdom in mountain bikes, and the HiFi is proof
of that. It uses a unique fork, so when you have trouble with yours or
want to upgrade it, you likely won't have many options.

The best advice for buying mountain bikes is to ride a bunch and buy
the one you like. If the HiFi really trips your trigger, go for it,
but you should at least feel a little bad for supporting a needless new
fork standard.

-Vee

Per Jeff:

Quoted message said:

So what's the prevaling wisdom...?

I don't think there is any.

Different sus systems have different tradeoffs and different people have
strong-but-different preferences.

--
PeteCresswell

Ryan Cousineau said:

But then again, I'm in love with my 'cross bike.

I also have a cross bike-- but I primarily ride MTBs in the winter-- big
studded tires and a cushy ride is a necessity.

(PeteCresswell) said:

Different sus systems have different tradeoffs and different people have
strong-but-different preferences.

-- at the moment I'm riding a 2003 Jamis FS-- with the Horst Link
set-up. My biggest [censored] about the bike is the swing-arm (chain stay)
I've broken it twice, the second time was the other day ... plus the
bell crank is damaged and is responsible for 99% of the creaking noises
on the bike.

-- because of the age of the bike, parts are now very difficult to
obtain.

-- my preference is to have a bike that's designed for high speed over
rough horizontal surfaces

Skippy said:

FWIW, Trek/Fisher and Specialized are pretty good companies to do business
with in my experience.

-- agreed, which is why I'm looking at both bikes -- service and parts
availability are an extremely important consideration when it comes to
FS bikes.

"Jeff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(PeteCresswell) said:

Different sus systems have different tradeoffs and different people have
strong-but-different preferences.

-- at the moment I'm riding a 2003 Jamis FS-- with the Horst Link
set-up. My biggest [censored] about the bike is the swing-arm (chain stay)
I've broken it twice, the second time was the other day ... plus the
bell crank is damaged and is responsible for 99% of the creaking noises
on the bike.

-- because of the age of the bike, parts are now very difficult to
obtain.

-- my preference is to have a bike that's designed for high speed over
rough horizontal surfaces

Jamis makes damn fine bikes for the price range. I have a '97 Dakar Team
full sus (all XTR) that is lighter than my hardtail and steel-framed road
bikes, and it is the only full suspension bike I have and need (and I have
15 bikes).

I don't get what you mean by "--because of the age of the bike, parts are
now very difficult to obtain." Get a set of Raceface cranks and maybe new
BB, and Jamis will replace your swingarm. "Horst linkage" systems have been
around forever.

Per Jeff:

Quoted message said:

-- at the moment I'm riding a 2003 Jamis FS-- with the Horst Link
set-up. My biggest [censored] about the bike is the swing-arm (chain stay)
I've broken it twice, the second time was the other day ... plus the
bell crank is damaged and is responsible for 99% of the creaking noises
on the bike.

Likewise - I thought the Maverick-style sus bike that I ride most of the time
was the greatest thing since sliced bread until I had walk almost 10 miles home
with a broken sus bolt one time, and about five miles with a broken rear dropout
another time.

I still prefer full sus - but the people who advocate hardtails or even rigids
on the basis of simplicity/bulletproofness seem to have a point.
--
PeteCresswell

(Jeff) said:

-- at the moment I'm riding a 2003 Jamis FS-- with the Horst Link
set-up. My biggest [censored] about the bike is the swing-arm (chain stay)
I've broken it twice, the second time was the other day ... plus the
bell crank is damaged and is responsible for 99% of the creaking noises
on the bike.

Quoted message said:

-- my preference is to have a bike that's designed for high speed over
rough horizontal surfaces

I suppose the first question for you as a Cat. 2 roadie wanting to
ride high speed over rough horizontal surfaces is whether you really
want a hardtail. Lighter, stiffer, faster (on horizontal), less
maintenance. Hilly is generally where the choice is made: FS is
heavier going up, but generally accepted as faster and less hard on
the body going down. Maybe if your horizontal is really technical
then the FS makes sense.

I agree with Pete that there is no "prevailing wisdom" as to the
"best" full suspension design. I'm on a good old single pivot Santa
Cruz Superlight with a 5th Element smart shock, weighing about 25 lbs
on my basement scale. Really tough and expensive to get dualies much
lighter, at least 5 years ago. Single pivot technology may be dated
by modern standards, but the smart shock keeps it from bobbing overly
much and it has just enough travel (good for roadies) - and there is
only one pivot to fail. It hasn't in 5 years.

Jeff said:

(PeteCresswell) said:

Different sus systems have different tradeoffs and different people have
strong-but-different preferences.

-- at the moment I'm riding a 2003 Jamis FS-- with the Horst Link
set-up. My biggest [censored] about the bike is the swing-arm (chain stay)
I've broken it twice, the second time was the other day ... plus the
bell crank is damaged and is responsible for 99% of the creaking noises
on the bike.

Reliability aside, if you have a Horst link now and like it you should
stick with a more reliable frame with the Horst link. I personally do
not like single pivots because of the increased pedal feedback depending
on what gear combo one is in. I have a 2004 Turner 5 Spot, Turner no
longer licenses the Horst link, and I think it's the perfect all around
trail riding mountain bike. If I were to replace it I would seek out
another Horst link bike.

Greg

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

G.T. said:

Jeff said:

(PeteCresswell) said:

Different sus systems have different tradeoffs and different people have
strong-but-different preferences.

-- at the moment I'm riding a 2003 Jamis FS-- with the Horst Link
set-up. My biggest [censored] about the bike is the swing-arm (chain stay)
I've broken it twice, the second time was the other day ... plus the
bell crank is damaged and is responsible for 99% of the creaking noises
on the bike.

Reliability aside, if you have a Horst link now and like it you should
stick with a more reliable frame with the Horst link. I personally do
not like single pivots because of the increased pedal feedback depending
on what gear combo one is in. I have a 2004 Turner 5 Spot, Turner no
longer licenses the Horst link, and I think it's the perfect all around
trail riding mountain bike. If I were to replace it I would seek out
another Horst link bike.

Greg

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

I agree, the Horst is a superior design to the Single Pivot GF HiFi.
Some people prefer single pivot for its simplicity, but the Horst will
perform better IMO. There are also other pivot designs.

If you can break a Jamis, you can probably break other brands, so I
wouldn't give up on the old steed just yet, but if ya can't get parts,
you don't have much choice. New crank sounds in order.

Chris

Bellsouth Ijit 2.0 said:

I don't get what you mean by "--because of the age of the bike, parts are
now very difficult to obtain." Get a set of Raceface cranks and maybe new
BB, and Jamis will replace your swingarm. "Horst linkage" systems have been
around forever.

maybe I need to define what a bell-crank is-- it's that little aluminum
bracket (lever) that connets the shock to the seat-stays.

....and yes the parts are hard to get-- I've had the bell-crank on order
for over three weeks-- my dealer tells me the distributor has to get it
from Japan.

(PeteCresswell) said:

I still prefer full sus - but the people who advocate hardtails or even rigids
on the basis of simplicity/bulletproofness seem to have a point.

Yes, agreed-- but riding at full throttle over frozen trails (I live in
Northern Canada) isn't recommended for someone who wants to maintain
good health-- specifically the spinal column.

This one route I ride is actually part of a network of horse trails--
hoof tracks in the hard packed snow are at least 4-inches deep ... I
challenge anyone through that kind of terrain with a rigid bike to keep
up with me.

I really kick the [censored] out of a bike...

Jeff said:

This one route I ride is actually part of a network of horse trails--
hoof tracks in the hard packed snow are at least 4-inches deep ... I
challenge anyone through that kind of terrain with a rigid bike to keep
up with me.

I really kick the [censored] out of a bike...

Dude, you're awesome. Forget the HiFi, you'll kill it. Move up to the
Fat Possum as it will take more abuse. Its single pivot design may not
perform as well as a Horst but it's a simpler design that has less to
go wrong.

Chris

"Jeff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(PeteCresswell) said:

I still prefer full sus - but the people who advocate hardtails or even
rigids
on the basis of simplicity/bulletproofness seem to have a point.

Yes, agreed-- but riding at full throttle over frozen trails (I live in
Northern Canada) isn't recommended for someone who wants to maintain
good health-- specifically the spinal column.

This one route I ride is actually part of a network of horse trails--
hoof tracks in the hard packed snow are at least 4-inches deep ... I
challenge anyone through that kind of terrain with a rigid bike to keep
up with me.

I really kick the [censored] out of a bike...

Ok, I know I'm 'light' on equipment, but the tougher speccy stuff like
Enduro (not too sure about clearances on the latest though) could be worth a
try. Giant Reign was too hefty for me, but might fit the bill. I've ridden
on heavily 'horsed' trails here (non frozen) and they really benefitted from
'isolated' full-sus. All the single pivot bikes I've ridden feed too much
back up the chain for that.

Skippy
E&OE

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jeff)

Quoted message said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

But then again, I'm in love with my 'cross bike.

I also have a cross bike-- but I primarily ride MTBs in the winter-- big
studded tires and a cushy ride is a necessity.

Surprisingly, my 'cross bike has coped remarkably well with snow and
slush this week. I get traction where cars cannot.

Not sure what the cushy ride is for; snow is soft. Well, except those
terrible corduroy trails I rode last weekend: packed snow, bumpy like
crazy. Maybe I should have used my mountain bike.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos