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Gear Skipping?

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Cycling Equipment
Published
15 July 2006
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20 July 2006
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NY Rides
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  1. What's making my wife's gears skip around all of a sudden? Her bike is only
    a few months old and she hardly rides it. Tonight, she was taking a simple
    ride and her chain kept randomly skipping down the gears. I seriously doubt
    the chain or cassette could be bad already. It seems to happen when she's
    in "3" and "7." Her cog shifter goes to "8", so it doesn't seem to be a
    cross-shifting issue, does it?

    Also, her bike has grip-shifts.

    --
    Low Impact Rides In The New York/Long Island/Westchester Area & Beyond
    www.geocities.com/NYRides

  2. Quoted message said:

    What's making my wife's gears skip around all of a sudden?

    Skip around? As in up one time and down the next?

    Quoted message said:

    ...her chain kept randomly skipping down the gears.

    Skipping down? As in to lower (easier) cogs? Or the opposite?

    Quoted message said:

    Also, her bike has grip-shifts.

    Check to see if her grips have started to slip off the handlebars even
    a tiny bit. It's easy to overlook the grips slipping outward when it
    happens just a little at a time. If a gap is there where none was
    before, it can affect shifting, as it affects effective cable length.

  3. "NY Rides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    What's making my wife's gears skip around all of a sudden? Her bike is


    only

    Quoted message said:

    a few months old and she hardly rides it. Tonight, she was taking a


    simple

    Quoted message said:

    ride and her chain kept randomly skipping down the gears. I seriously


    doubt

    Quoted message said:

    the chain or cassette could be bad already. It seems to happen when she's
    in "3" and "7." Her cog shifter goes to "8", so it doesn't seem to be a
    cross-shifting issue, does it?

    Also, her bike has grip-shifts.

    Could it be a simple waxing/oil issue? not enough or perhaps too much? i
    once obsessively waxed my chain, i couldnt have skipped more with a rope.

  4. Keiron said:


    "NY Rides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    What's making my wife's gears skip around all of a sudden? Her bike is


    only

    Quoted message said:

    a few months old and she hardly rides it. Tonight, she was taking a


    simple

    Quoted message said:

    ride and her chain kept randomly skipping down the gears. I seriously


    doubt

    Quoted message said:

    the chain or cassette could be bad already. It seems to happen when she's
    in "3" and "7." Her cog shifter goes to "8", so it doesn't seem to be a
    cross-shifting issue, does it?

    Also, her bike has grip-shifts.

    Could it be a simple waxing/oil issue? not enough or perhaps too much? i
    once obsessively waxed my chain, i couldnt have skipped more with a rope.

    Dear Keiron,

    It's not any slipperiness (or lack of it) between the tooth and roller
    that lets a chain skip. It's the increasing mismatch between the
    effective pitch of the gear teeth and the pitch of the rollers.

    As the chain wears, the rollers spread further and further apart.
    Meanwhile the peaks of the gear teeth always remain the same distance
    apart, even though the curve between them wears asymmetrically.

    In a horrible way, the elongation of the chain can compensate for this
    wear down one side of the gear teeth. A chain worn badly enough to
    ruin the gear teeth may still work surprisingly well under moderate
    load on the teeth that it's ruined.

    Caution: graphic scene not recommended for faint of heart.

    http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/wornteeth.jpg

    When the rider finally notices an occasional skip and replaces the
    badly worn chain with a nice new chain, the new chain will skip just
    as wildly as you describe on the sprocket shown above. The elongation
    of the old chain carved the gear into a shape that no new chain can
    handle, but which was very crudely suited to the elongated chain.

    Similarly, a rider may one day decide to clean and lubricate a
    wretchedly worn and filthy chain. To his surprise, the chain promptly
    skips so badly that turns around before he reaches the end of the
    block. Deprived of the thin internal layer of crud that kept thems
    from rattling, the badly worn rollers no longer force the already
    shaky match between worn chain and worn gear teeth.

    As for your question about too much oil or wax, no amount of oil will
    cause a chain to skip. Inside motors, chains for camshafts and even
    transmissions run through oil baths. (Indeed, a chain in a sealed bath
    of clean oil is pretty much immortal.)

    Wax isn't a problem, either. Even the wax trapped by the close
    tolerances of the chain's innards is slowly squeezed out (unlike fluid
    oil, the solid wax does not pulse in and out with a pumping action).

    Any wax between the gear teeth and the outside of the chain rollers is
    squished out immediately, just like mud or the familiar black sludge
    (oil mixed with road dust). The sides of the chain and sprocket may be
    dirty, but things stay surprisingly clean where the chain force is
    transmitted to the gear tooth.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel


  5. Quoted message said:

    Dear Keiron,

    It's not any slipperiness (or lack of it) between the tooth and roller
    that lets a chain skip. It's the increasing mismatch between the
    effective pitch of the gear teeth and the pitch of the rollers.

    As the chain wears, the rollers spread further and further apart.
    Meanwhile the peaks of the gear teeth always remain the same distance
    apart, even though the curve between them wears asymmetrically.

    In a horrible way, the elongation of the chain can compensate for this
    wear down one side of the gear teeth. A chain worn badly enough to
    ruin the gear teeth may still work surprisingly well under moderate
    load on the teeth that it's ruined.

    Caution: graphic scene not recommended for faint of heart.

    http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/wornteeth.jpg

    When the rider finally notices an occasional skip and replaces the
    badly worn chain with a nice new chain, the new chain will skip just
    as wildly as you describe on the sprocket shown above. The elongation
    of the old chain carved the gear into a shape that no new chain can
    handle, but which was very crudely suited to the elongated chain.

    Similarly, a rider may one day decide to clean and lubricate a
    wretchedly worn and filthy chain. To his surprise, the chain promptly
    skips so badly that turns around before he reaches the end of the
    block. Deprived of the thin internal layer of crud that kept thems
    from rattling, the badly worn rollers no longer force the already
    shaky match between worn chain and worn gear teeth.

    As for your question about too much oil or wax, no amount of oil will
    cause a chain to skip. Inside motors, chains for camshafts and even
    transmissions run through oil baths. (Indeed, a chain in a sealed bath
    of clean oil is pretty much immortal.)

    Wax isn't a problem, either. Even the wax trapped by the close
    tolerances of the chain's innards is slowly squeezed out (unlike fluid
    oil, the solid wax does not pulse in and out with a pumping action).

    Any wax between the gear teeth and the outside of the chain rollers is
    squished out immediately, just like mud or the familiar black sludge
    (oil mixed with road dust). The sides of the chain and sprocket may be
    dirty, but things stay surprisingly clean where the chain force is
    transmitted to the gear tooth.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    Cheers Carl,

    I do tend to neglect my chain, it would seem rather more obsessive chain
    cleaning sessions required. however, what might be the problem for a rather
    new 'driveset' as in original question which has very little wear? perhaps
    unoiled, stiff links?

    Cheers.

    Keiron

  6. Keiron said:

    Cheers Carl,

    I do tend to neglect my chain, it would seem rather more obsessive chain
    cleaning sessions required. however, what might be the problem for a rather
    new 'driveset' as in original question which has very little wear? perhaps
    unoiled, stiff links?

    Cheers.

    Keiron

    Dear Keiron,

    New chains comes from the factory with excellent, long-lasting
    lubrication.

    (That's the upshot of the familiar threads where people ask about how
    to remove that greasy stuff that covers new chains.)

    The usual causes for chain skip are worn gears, worn chains, or both.

    You can also have a bad chain link--the master link is another brand
    and not the same width, the connection pin wasn't inserted quite
    right, or there's a stiff link whose pin needs to be eased.

    Then there's the entirely separate problem of shifters that need
    adjustment and horrible chainline.

    Surprisingly, it's been show that a dry chain that has been cleaned of
    all lubricant with solvent will run just fine and transmit as much
    power, even though it probably squeaked like a box full of angry bats:

    "The measured efficiency of the de-lubricated chain for the 52-15
    combination at 60 rpm and 100 W was 90.3% and at 200 W was 96.5%.
    These efficiencies are essentially the same as those measured for the
    chain in the re-lubricated condition."

    http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp50-2000.pdf

    Neither lack of lubrication nor excessive lubrication make bike chains
    skip. Basically, you have to change the shape of the gear or the chain
    to cause that kind of trouble.

    Rust is also a possible culprit for the original poster's problem. A
    rusty chain can give the stiff-link problem, just as it can provide
    hidden wear that can't be easily measured--a single 12-inch pin-to-pin
    check looks fine, but two feet away is a section of chain that rusted
    and wore badly out of sight, either on the pins or on the rollers.
    Rust is also more likely on a rarely used bike.

    Or the problem can be something bizarre that can't be diagnosed over
    the internet.

    I once found that chain skip can be caused by little piece of fishing
    line snarled in a derailleur pulley.

    Another skip problem turned out to be a single link whose roller was
    mysteriously missing--how the roller wore through and vanished is
    beyond me, but there it was, a weird little gap in an otherwise worn
    but still intact chain.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  7. I had this problem two nights ago. On a 9-spd drivetrain, my gearing
    was skipping from 7th to 8th cog and back again. The problem was a
    combination of incorrect cable tension and derailleur misalignment.
    Doesn't sound exactly like your problem...but not too far off perhaps?

    I couldn't get the problem to go away until I 'reset' my derailleur...I
    disconnected the cable and reconnected it as if I were installing a new
    derailleur. Worked perfectly after that. I still can't figure out
    exactly why I couldn't fix the problem with the cable still attached.
    Human error, no doubt.

    I've also experienced chain-skip after the first year of MTB ownership.
    Unfortunately, I got a stuck link (rust on the chain...I now pay more
    attention to lube/cleaning) and ended up with the chain skipping once
    every couple of revolutions. I don't recall if it skipped gears or
    not; I fixed the link immediately. No more skipping.

    NY Rides said:

    What's making my wife's gears skip around all of a sudden? Her bike is only
    a few months old and she hardly rides it. Tonight, she was taking a simple
    ride and her chain kept randomly skipping down the gears. I seriously doubt
    the chain or cassette could be bad already. It seems to happen when she's
    in "3" and "7." Her cog shifter goes to "8", so it doesn't seem to be a
    cross-shifting issue, does it?

    Also, her bike has grip-shifts.

    --
    Low Impact Rides In The New York/Long Island/Westchester Area & Beyond
    www.geocities.com/NYRides

  8. NY Rides said:

    What's making my wife's gears skip around all of a sudden? Her bike is only
    a few months old and she hardly rides it. Tonight, she was taking a simple
    ride and her chain kept randomly skipping down the gears. I seriously doubt
    the chain or cassette could be bad already. It seems to happen when she's
    in "3" and "7." Her cog shifter goes to "8", so it doesn't seem to be a
    cross-shifting issue, does it?

    Also, her bike has grip-shifts.

    Rotate the crank backwards while watching how the chain moves through
    the rear derailer, any "jumps" indicate a stiff link.

    Turn the adjusting barrel (for rear) a turn in one direction, if that
    makes it worse, try the other direction.

  9. Group: rec.bicycles.tech
    Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2006, 1:24pm (EDT-2)
    From: [email hidden]

    Dear Keiron,

    Quoted message said:

    Wax isn't a problem, either. Even the
    wax trapped by the close tolerances of
    the chain's innards is slowly squeezed
    out (unlike fluid oil, the solid wax does
    not pulse in and out with a pumping
    action).

    Quoted message said:

    Any wax between the gear teeth and the
    outside of the chain rollers is squished
    out immediately, just like mud or the
    familiar black sludge (oil mixed with road
    dust).

    Quoted message said:

    Cheers,
    Carl Fogel

    Actually, a newly waxed chain can skip ferociously, IF the waxer simply
    dunked it, let it hang (without wiping off the excess) and reinstalled
    it cold and stiff as a board with a thick coat of excess wax clogging up
    the spaces between the rollers.

    If, on the otherhand, it was done correctly, the excesss was wiped off,
    the chain reinstalled while it was still warm and the wax soft, Then the
    bike ridden (or the cranks turned) then no, the chain will no more skip
    that if it have been oiled or sprayed with lube.

    - -
    Comments and opinions compliments of,
    "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

    My web Site:
    http://geocities.com/czcorner

    To E-mail me:
    ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

  10. Have you checked to see if the shifter mechanism itself has worked
    loose?

    I'm not familiar with GripShift, but on most lever style shifters if
    they get loose they will not hold a gear, but will,as you mentioned
    "shift all over the place by themselves".

    - -
    Comments and opinions compliments of,
    "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

    My web Site:
    http://geocities.com/czcorner

    To E-mail me:
    ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

  11. OK, I found the problem and it was right under my nose the hole time. It
    turns out a link on the chain had somehow gotten mangled, perhaps during
    transit. I don't know how I missed it, but I think the problem is resolved.

    Thank you all for your input. By the way, what's the latest popular opinion
    on White Lightning -- the creamy white version?

  12. On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:52:17 -0400, "NY Rides" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    OK, I found the problem and it was right under my nose the hole time. It
    turns out a link on the chain had somehow gotten mangled, perhaps during
    transit. I don't know how I missed it, but I think the problem is resolved.

    Thank you all for your input. By the way, what's the latest popular opinion
    on White Lightning -- the creamy white version?


    Depends on the weather.

    If it's dry, great. [censored] in the wet.

    Ron

  13. Group: rec.bicycles.tech
    Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2006, 8:52pm
    From: [email hidden] (NY Rides)

    Quoted message said:

    Thank you all for your input. By the way,
    what's the latest popular opinion on
    White Lightning -- the creamy white
    version?

    I use it on my derailer and brake pivots with few complaints. Be sure to
    shake it good befor each use, t's a wax based lube held in suspention
    and can seperate after sitting a while (in the bottle).

    - -
    Comments and opinions compliments of,
    "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

    My web Site:
    http://geocities.com/czcorner

    To E-mail me:
    ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

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