Generator Light Recommendation Wanted

I use a Lumotec Oval powered by a Dymotec S6. It'll be fine for what you
have in mind.

Another bike I have is lighted by a very powerful battery system. While it's
sort of neat that I have the light of a motorcycle, it's more than I need.

One concern I have is wear on the sidewall of the lightweight tires I use.
If I didn't have fenders and a braze on tab I'd fit the generator so that
the generator wheel rides over the tread part of the tire.

Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY

"Billy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't want to start another holy war over generator systems vs. battery
systtems, but I'd like some recommendations regarding generators & lights.
I've searched the archives for the ng and I still have some questions.

The

Quoted message said:

availability of generator lights here in the U.S. is, AFAICT, limited to

the

Quoted message said:

following:

- Schmidt hub & bottle models (high end)
- Litespin (high end)
- various Sanden models (mid level)
- various Sanyo models (mid level)
- Union bottle & BB models (mid to low end)
- various low end models (around $15)

I'm not looking to spend a lot of dough on something that may not suit my
needs, so I'm sticking with 6V 3W models. I plan to use it to commute
and/or extend my exercise rides. The area would be mostly unlit roads
between subdivisions and industrial parks. I'm favoring the Union bottle
generator because, from what I've read, it puts out as much light as any,
and is the cheapest, decent generator. If I can accept the light output,

I

Quoted message said:

may upgrade to something else How does the adjustable beam of the Sanyos
and Sandens compare with the fixed Lumotec and BiSy lights? How does the
light in the Union compare? Can anyone recommend other systems available

in

Quoted message said:

the US?

Thanks.

Billy

"Gary Jacobson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I use a Lumotec Oval powered by a Dymotec S6. It'll be fine for what you
have in mind.

What is the difference between the Lumotec Oval and the standard Lumotec?
Is it just cosmetic?

Quoted message said:

Another bike I have is lighted by a very powerful battery system. While

it's

Quoted message said:

sort of neat that I have the light of a motorcycle, it's more than I need.

Which one do you use the most?

Quoted message said:

One concern I have is wear on the sidewall of the lightweight tires I use.
If I didn't have fenders and a braze on tab I'd fit the generator so that
the generator wheel rides over the tread part of the tire.

I'll be putting it on a mtn bike w/slicks, or an old 10 speed w/27x1/25"
tires. I think I could run off the tread on either bike.

Quoted message said:

Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY

Thanks.

Billy

Billy said:

I don't want to start another holy war over generator systems vs. battery
systtems, but I'd like some recommendations regarding generators & lights.
I've searched the archives for the ng and I still have some questions. The
availability of generator lights here in the U.S. is, AFAICT, limited to the
following:

- Schmidt hub & bottle models (high end)
- Litespin (high end)
- various Sanden models (mid level)
- various Sanyo models (mid level)
- Union bottle & BB models (mid to low end)
- various low end models (around $15)

I'm not looking to spend a lot of dough on something that may not suit my
needs, so I'm sticking with 6V 3W models. I plan to use it to commute
and/or extend my exercise rides. The area would be mostly unlit roads
between subdivisions and industrial parks. I'm favoring the Union bottle
generator because, from what I've read, it puts out as much light as any,
and is the cheapest, decent generator. If I can accept the light output, I
may upgrade to something else How does the adjustable beam of the Sanyos
and Sandens compare with the fixed Lumotec and BiSy lights? How does the
light in the Union compare? Can anyone recommend other systems available in
the US?

I'm not going to be able to answer your questions in detail, since I
don't buy lots of generator lights. The ones I'm using are at least six
years old, and the ones I use most often are probably fifteen years old!
Actually, that's testimony to their reliability.

Light output won't vary much from one model to another, as their
electrical characteristics are pretty closely regulated by German laws,
and Germany is a big market for them. See
http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/dynotest.html
for some good comparison information from a few years ago.

The headlamp itself makes at least as much difference as the generator,
but you can buy those separately.
http://www.fa-technik.adfc.de/Komponenten/Scheinwerfer/vergleich.htm
has some photos of headlight beams.

FWIW, I've used several different lamps in recent years: a Basta
Ellipsoid, the FER headlamp that comes with the FER 2002 generator, a
Soubitez HS3, a Union CH 11220 (that's about 3.5" diameter), a Union CH
11226 (about 2.5" diameter). I've listed them in my order of
preference, but there's some personal taste in there, to be sure. For
example, the Basta Ellipsoid has a fairly narrow beam, but it's
brighter. The Union CH 11220 spreads a wider, slightly dimmer beam.

One advantage of a roller (or bottom bracket) generator is it will
probably drive two headlamps in series, if you want to play with that
circuit. I use mostly Soubitez bottom bracket generators partly for
that reason.

The Union sidewall generator will work fine, but it's not a low-drag model.

Keep in mind you can buy lots more of these if you do mail order to
overseas shops. For example, there's http://www.sjscycles.com/

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

"Billy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I don't want to start another holy war over generator systems vs. battery
systtems, but I'd like some recommendations regarding generators & lights.
I've searched the archives for the ng and I still have some questions. The
availability of generator lights here in the U.S. is, AFAICT, limited to the
following:

- Schmidt hub & bottle models (high end)
- Litespin (high end)
- various Sanden models (mid level)
- various Sanyo models (mid level)
- Union bottle & BB models (mid to low end)
- various low end models (around $15)

I'm not looking to spend a lot of dough on something that may not suit my
needs, so I'm sticking with 6V 3W models. I plan to use it to commute
and/or extend my exercise rides. The area would be mostly unlit roads
between subdivisions and industrial parks. I'm favoring the Union bottle
generator because, from what I've read, it puts out as much light as any,
and is the cheapest, decent generator. If I can accept the light output, I
may upgrade to something else How does the adjustable beam of the Sanyos
and Sandens compare with the fixed Lumotec and BiSy lights? How does the
light in the Union compare? Can anyone recommend other systems available in
the US?

For your purposes, I think that any of the generators you list will be
OK, in terms of putting out enough power. If you pay more, you will
get a generator that lasts longer, makes less noise and has less drag.
Drag might not be especially important - even the worst generator
will slow you down by only a few percent.

In summary, don't get too anxious about which generator - get whatever
your budget can stand.

On the other hand, headlamps vary a lot and it is worth chasing the
right model.

To some extent, the right beam pattern is a matter of taste. If you
need to see where you are going on unlit roads at a good speed, a
narrow beam with a long reach is suitable. If this is what you want,
the Schmidt E6 is the best, with the Bisy almost as good at a much
lower price. I use these on kangaroo-infested rural roads with some
30 mph downhils. They are bright enough to light up the width of the
road at least 100 yards ahead.

The performance of the Lumotec headlights is noticeably poorer. The
rest are a long way behind.

In summary, I suggest a Bisy with a 6 Volt, 3 Watt globe. I bought
mine by mail from Peter White Cycles - quick, efficient service.
Depending on which generator you get, you will probably need some sort
of over-voltage protection.

And a final tip: headlights don't shine around corners. Drivers on
side roads, outside you narrow beam, might not see you. If you are
anxious about cars at intersections, use a small, cheap LED button
cell light on you h****t. When you turn your head to look at the car
to check that they are going to stop, you automatically shine a light
directly at them. They will see you.

Good luck

AW

Billy said:

I don't want to start another holy war over generator systems vs. battery
systtems, but I'd like some recommendations regarding generators & lights.
I'm not looking to spend a lot of dough on something that may not suit my
needs, so I'm sticking with 6V 3W models.
I'm favoring the Union bottle
generator because, from what I've read, it puts out as much light as any,
and is the cheapest, decent generator.

The trouble with bottle dynamos is that they are unreliable in the wet -
much less so than when I was a kid, but they're still not ideal. As well
as the components you list, I know the Shimano Nexus is available in the
United States; it's nearly as good as the Schmidt -

Diversion; _all_ these dynamos, except a slipping bottle in the wet, are
_just_ as good in terms of what they put out; they put out 6V 3W. The
differences are weight, reliability, and extra drag. A bottle has zero
drag when off, but high drag when on compared to a hub; the difference
between the Schmidt and the Nexus is that the Schmidt when off causes
almost no drag, but the Nexus causes a greater (but still very small)
amount.

- and about 1/3 the price. If you _really_ are strapped for cash, get a
bottle, but consider the Nexus if you can afford it.

Headlamps; the Bisy or Schmidt E6 are the best if you don't need a
standlight, the Lumotec Plus lamps if you do. Any B&M standlight-equipped
taillight will do, but you may find it equally easy to mount a cheap LED
rear light.

You might like to take a look at;

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/bikes/dynamo.html
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

15 Jul 2004 12:22:53 +0100 (BST), David Damerell:

Quoted message said:

_all_ these dynamos, except a slipping bottle in the wet, are
_just_ as good in terms of what they put out; they put out 6V 3W.

This is too much generalisation. There are bottle dynamos, that just reach
5.9 Volt at even high spped and about 5.6 Volt at 15 km/h. The Dynosys
Lightspin is limited to 6.2 Volt. Combined with poor wiring or contacts
you can not expect to get much light. Most hub, bottom bracket and better
sidewall dynamos will reach 6.0 Volt at 15 km/h and around 6.6 to 6.8 Volt
at 30 km/h. This means about twice the light output at higher speeds with
the better dynamos (the voltage/lumen ratio is non-linear).

Quoted message said:

the difference
between the Schmidt and the Nexus is that the Schmidt when off causes
almost no drag, but the Nexus causes a greater (but still very small)
amount.

The Schmidt hub has about 1 Watt losses at 30 km/h, the Shimano
HB-NX30/32/50/70 5....6 Watt. Not much compared to the 150 to 250 Watt
neccessary to cope with air and rolling resistance - but who has power to
waste?

Andreas

I use the Schmidt SON and Lumotec Plus Oval lamp. I find this just
fine for riding all night (literally) in rural areas. The drag of the
hub is not noticeable whether the light is on or off. It's expensive
but IMHO well worth it.

I have a Shimano hub generator. It works in rain, snow, and mud and
is quiet. I'd have to consider it a great improvement over the Union
sidewall generator that came with my bike. The Shimano Nuxus has a
bit more drag than the Schmidt, but costs significantly less. I
bought the Shimano because I wanted to continue to use the front hub
brake. If I had a disk or caliper brake in front, I would have bought
the Schmidt.

The Union worked well for me for two years. When used with touring
tires with a molded-in track to drive the generator, it performed well
in rain and acceptably in snow. The main issue is that one's LBS will
usually not stock proper touring tires with a generator track.
Schvalbe Marthon Plus is probably the best tire choice.

After two years of winter road grit, the drive rotor was so worn that
it no longer would engace the generator track when wet, even with new
tires. Replacement rotors are not available in the US. It is
possible to get a rubber cap; however, my cap wore out in about a
month. I converted to the hub generator and never regretted it. It
feels good to hop on the bike and ride off into the snow in total
silence behind a bright white beam.

I use a Lumotec headlight and a B&M LED taillight. The .6 watt bulbs
required for European taillights are nearly unavailable in the US and
wear out quickly. I'd suggest getting either an LED taillight or
going to a 3 watt headlight with a rear blinky (which is also a LED).

Other than the short lifespan when used in a high-grit environment,
the Union is a decent, cheap and cheerful solution. Even with a
brazed on mount, it requires a bit of fiddling. It might be more of a
problem on a bicycle not designed to use a generator.

Paul

Andreas Oehler said:

15 Jul 2004 12:22:53 +0100 (BST), David Damerell:

Quoted message said:

_all_ these dynamos, except a slipping bottle in the wet, are
_just_ as good in terms of what they put out; they put out 6V 3W.

This is too much generalisation. There are bottle dynamos, that just reach
5.9 Volt at even high spped and about 5.6 Volt at 15 km/h. The Dynosys
Lightspin is limited to 6.2 Volt.

I suppose this means, then, that there's no way to run two headlights in
series off the Lightspin. That's a trick that is possible with the
Schmidt, and with the ancient Soubitez roller generator I usually use.
It's kind of fun to have a "high beam" at higher speeds.

AFAIK, the two light trick can't be used if the generator has even a
simple Zener regulator. I wonder: is the Shimano hub generator
internally voltage-limited?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the difference
between the Schmidt and the Nexus is that the Schmidt when off causes
almost no drag, but the Nexus causes a greater (but still very small)
amount.

The Schmidt hub has about 1 Watt losses at 30 km/h, the Shimano
HB-NX30/32/50/70 5....6 Watt.

Those are losses with light off, if I understand correctly. What's the
"light on" efficiency of the Shimano line? Anybody know the figures?

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:26:50 -0400, Frank Krygowski:

Quoted message said:

Andreas Oehler said:

There are bottle dynamos, that just reach
5.9 Volt at even high spped and about 5.6 Volt at 15 km/h. The Dynosys
Lightspin is limited to 6.2 Volt.

I suppose this means, then, that there's no way to run two headlights in
series off the Lightspin.

Yes, but you can run two 6V-2.4W in parallel on the Dynosys Lightspin. In
the wet this will increase the likelihood of slippage.

Quoted message said:

AFAIK, the two light trick can't be used if the generator has even a
simple Zener regulator.

You ar right - if you don't find a way to destroy or remove the voltage
limitation.

Quoted message said:

I wonder: is the Shimano hub generator
internally voltage-limited?

There is no electronics inside the hub shell - just a coil, some sheet
metal and magnets arranged in a smart way ;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the difference
between the Schmidt and the Nexus is that the Schmidt when off causes
almost no drag, but the Nexus causes a greater (but still very small)
amount.

The Schmidt hub has about 1 Watt losses at 30 km/h, the Shimano
HB-NX30/32/50/70 5....6 Watt.

Those are losses with light off, if I understand correctly.

Yes.

Quoted message said:

What's the
"light on" efficiency of the Shimano line? Anybody know the figures?

At 15 km/h it is in the 50% range. Not much difference between the
different generations of Shimano hub dynamos in this respect.

Andreas