Getting fatter while on ketosis ?

x-no-archive: yes

Hueyduck said:

Hi everyone,

I was wondering something very simple.
Is it possible for a body to produce fat while beeing in ketosis.
For me it would be a nonsense, but I'd rather ask if there is a known
answer.

Yes, and I gained 20 lbs while in ketosis when I tried Atkins induction
levels. You can be in ketosis burning dietary, not body fat, and adding
fat if your calories are too high.

Quoted message said:

The reason I ask this is that I don't count calories, sometimes. Once my
ketostix show purple, I just watch what I eat in order not to get too
much carbs. But sometimes, without counting, it seems like I eat quite
big lunch.
Thus my question. I'm not talking about muscle or water weight, but
really fat.

Ketostix will not help you evaluate your diet or weight loss; they don't
distinguish between fat you eat and body fat you burn, nor do they tell
you if you've just burned off ketones rather than peeing them out. They
don't measure ketosis, they only measure ketonuria (ketones in the urine).

Your clothes and your tape measure are far more useful measures, and
cheaper. :-)

Susan

Hueyduck said:

Is it possible for a body to produce fat while beeing in ketosis.

While the answer to that question is yes ...

Quoted message said:

But sometimes, without counting, it seems like I eat quite
big lunch.

"Quite big lunch" is far too little to be able to do it.

Ketosis gives some amount of resistance to depositing new
stored fat because ketosis means the glucagon level is high
and the direction of fat is out of storage. Not even 500
calories extra in a day will be enough to push fat into storage
for most folks in ketosis, though 100 calories extra a day
would be enough. You don't eat an entire stick of butter as
a snack right? Doing that would be enough extra.

The advantage of ketosis is it cuts into appetite making it
less likely. Your meals are probably fewer calories than
before you started.

If you want to count calories feel free.

"Doug Freyburger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hueyduck said:

Is it possible for a body to produce fat while beeing in ketosis.

While the answer to that question is yes ...

Quoted message said:

But sometimes, without counting, it seems like I eat quite
big lunch.

"Quite big lunch" is far too little to be able to do it.

Ketosis gives some amount of resistance to depositing new
stored fat because ketosis means the glucagon level is high
and the direction of fat is out of storage.

Quoted message said:

Not even 500
calories extra in a day will be enough to push fat into storage
for most folks in ketosis, though 100 calories extra a day
would be enough.

What? Assuming you meant 1000, where did you get these numbers?

Quoted message said:

You don't eat an entire stick of butter as
a snack right? Doing that would be enough extra.

The advantage of ketosis is it cuts into appetite making it
less likely. Your meals are probably fewer calories than
before you started.

If you want to count calories feel free.

"4. Roger Zoul Feb 3, 10:30 pm

What? Assuming you meant 1000, where did you get these numbers? "

I suspect they came from the usual place... 🙂

"Susan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

Hueyduck said:

Hi everyone,

I was wondering something very simple.
Is it possible for a body to produce fat while beeing in ketosis.
For me it would be a nonsense, but I'd rather ask if there is a known
answer.

Yes, and I gained 20 lbs while in ketosis when I tried Atkins induction
levels. You can be in ketosis burning dietary, not body fat, and adding
fat if your calories are too high.

Quoted message said:

The reason I ask this is that I don't count calories, sometimes. Once my
ketostix show purple, I just watch what I eat in order not to get too
much carbs. But sometimes, without counting, it seems like I eat quite
big lunch.
Thus my question. I'm not talking about muscle or water weight, but
really fat.

Ketostix will not help you evaluate your diet or weight loss; they don't
distinguish between fat you eat and body fat you burn, nor do they tell
you if you've just burned off ketones rather than peeing them out. They
don't measure ketosis, they only measure ketonuria (ketones in the urine).

Your clothes and your tape measure are far more useful measures, and
cheaper. :-)

Susan

Absolutely Susan. Calories count! Watch your levels of fat, it's not the
demon they say it is (especially the better fats) but it's still almost
twice as calorically dense as carbs or protein.

Forcing myself to eat vegetables and lunch and dinner seems to really take
the weight off too.

"Joe the Aroma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Susan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

Hueyduck said:

Hi everyone,

I was wondering something very simple.
Is it possible for a body to produce fat while beeing in ketosis.
For me it would be a nonsense, but I'd rather ask if there is a known
answer.

Yes, and I gained 20 lbs while in ketosis when I tried Atkins induction
levels. You can be in ketosis burning dietary, not body fat, and adding
fat if your calories are too high.

Quoted message said:

The reason I ask this is that I don't count calories, sometimes. Once my
ketostix show purple, I just watch what I eat in order not to get too
much carbs. But sometimes, without counting, it seems like I eat quite
big lunch.
Thus my question. I'm not talking about muscle or water weight, but
really fat.

Ketostix will not help you evaluate your diet or weight loss; they don't
distinguish between fat you eat and body fat you burn, nor do they tell
you if you've just burned off ketones rather than peeing them out. They
don't measure ketosis, they only measure ketonuria (ketones in the
urine).

Your clothes and your tape measure are far more useful measures, and
cheaper. :-)

Susan

Absolutely Susan. Calories count! Watch your levels of fat, it's not the
demon they say it is (especially the better fats) but it's still almost
twice as calorically dense as carbs or protein.

Forcing myself to eat vegetables and lunch and dinner seems to really take
the weight off too.

and lunch = at lunch

"Hueyduck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi everyone,

I was wondering something very simple.
Is it possible for a body to produce fat while beeing in ketosis.
For me it would be a nonsense, but I'd rather ask if there is a known
answer.

The reason I ask this is that I don't count calories, sometimes. Once my
ketostix show purple, I just watch what I eat in order not to get too
much carbs. But sometimes, without counting, it seems like I eat quite
big lunch.
Thus my question. I'm not talking about muscle or water weight, but
really fat.

Thanks for your answers.

Huey

You can get fatter eating too many calories of anything. You eat enough
celery you will get fat (although it'd have to be mind boggling amounts).
The emphasis on ketosis is unfortunate in the LC world and I'd suspect it's
derailed many LC dieters. Ketosis does have one advantage and that is it's
appetite suppressing mechanism, which not everyone experiences.

"Joe the Aroma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Susan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

Hueyduck said:

Hi everyone,

I was wondering something very simple.
Is it possible for a body to produce fat while beeing in ketosis.
For me it would be a nonsense, but I'd rather ask if there is a known
answer.

Yes, and I gained 20 lbs while in ketosis when I tried Atkins induction
levels. You can be in ketosis burning dietary, not body fat, and adding
fat if your calories are too high.

Quoted message said:

The reason I ask this is that I don't count calories, sometimes. Once my
ketostix show purple, I just watch what I eat in order not to get too
much carbs. But sometimes, without counting, it seems like I eat quite
big lunch.
Thus my question. I'm not talking about muscle or water weight, but
really fat.

Ketostix will not help you evaluate your diet or weight loss; they don't
distinguish between fat you eat and body fat you burn, nor do they tell
you if you've just burned off ketones rather than peeing them out. They
don't measure ketosis, they only measure ketonuria (ketones in the
urine).

Your clothes and your tape measure are far more useful measures, and
cheaper. :-)

Susan

Absolutely Susan. Calories count! Watch your levels of fat, it's not the
demon they say it is (especially the better fats) but it's still almost
twice as calorically dense as carbs or protein.

Forcing myself to eat vegetables and lunch and dinner seems to really take
the weight off too.

That's absolutely true. Those very low carb fibrous veggies are a good way
to fill the belly. I like eating raw veggies and meat with it.

"Joe the Aroma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Hueyduck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi everyone,

I was wondering something very simple.
Is it possible for a body to produce fat while beeing in ketosis.
For me it would be a nonsense, but I'd rather ask if there is a known
answer.

The reason I ask this is that I don't count calories, sometimes. Once my
ketostix show purple, I just watch what I eat in order not to get too
much carbs. But sometimes, without counting, it seems like I eat quite
big lunch.
Thus my question. I'm not talking about muscle or water weight, but
really fat.

Thanks for your answers.

Huey

You can get fatter eating too many calories of anything. You eat enough
celery you will get fat (although it'd have to be mind boggling amounts).
The emphasis on ketosis is unfortunate in the LC world and I'd suspect
it's derailed many LC dieters. Ketosis does have one advantage and that is
it's appetite suppressing mechanism, which not everyone experiences.

I don't think ketosis is all of the problem...but somehow people have gotten
the notion that one can eat as much LC fatty food as they *want* and not
gain weight. I know I can. Some of us just like to eat, which is an
altogether different issue than eating because of bloor sugar swings.

Of course, it's complex too. For example, I never binge on steak but I can
binge on nuts. And nuts have some carbs (which, btw, seems to vary all over
the map depending on one's source for nutritional info). Eat a lot of nuts
and you start to get significant amounts of carbs AND fat. So, some of it
could be just do to sloppy LCing...

Quoted message said:

"4. Roger Zoul Feb 3, 10:30 pm

Quoted message said:

What? Assuming you meant 1000, where did you get these numbers? "

Thanks for correcting the typo.

Quoted message said:

I suspect they came from the usual place... 🙂

Atkins Center does occasionally gather data and they are the
source. Several years ago their was an example on their web
page of a person in ketosis who gained consistantly to the
point it had to be new fat not water. After several weeks of
questioning they finally got her to log everything she ate. Her
nightly snack was a stick of butter with cinnamon. A stick of
butter in the US is a quarter pound, about 115 grams of fat.
That's a thousand extra calories rounded off. That's in
addition to an otherwise common Atkins diet of low carb,
medium protein, high fat.

Ketosis may direct fat out of storage in the body because of
the glucagon, but it can't do that in the face of over eating.

Still, a big lunch is very unlikely to be that level of over eating.

BTW, I notice you're still mentally incapable of quoting. Sigh.
Not your fault the doctor dropped you on the head when you
were born.

Joe the Aroma said:

"Hueyduck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Thanks you for all your answers.

Btw, I did know that ketosys could mean that I was buirning food fat :-)
But i just couldn't firgure out how a body could start the process of
fat burning while it stores it at the same time.

Now I know it is perfectly possiblie.

Susan, don't take this the wrong way, but:
how could you manage to stay in induction stage long enough to take 20
pounds. It would have freakened me out so much I would have lost 'faith'
(if you know what I mean) in less than it takes to gain half of that.

Good night everyone and thanks again.

Huey

x-no-archive: yes

Hueyduck said:

Susan, don't take this the wrong way, but:
how could you manage to stay in induction stage long enough to take 20
pounds.

I didn't, actually. I was slim and doing it to counter hypoglycemia and
insulin resistance. What I didn't bargain for was that it lowered my T3
thyroid so much that my metabolism slowed to a crawl and stayed there,
even after I quit induction levels.

Quoted message said:

It would have freakened me out so much I would have lost 'faith'
(if you know what I mean) in less than it takes to gain half of that.

I never had faith in the Atkins diet plan, but I did know that I had to
low carb for my health. I just discovered the hard way that extreme low
carb isn't for everyone.

Susan

Doug Freyburger said:

Quoted message said:

"4. Roger Zoul Feb 3, 10:30 pm

Quoted message said:

What? Assuming you meant 1000, where did you get these numbers? "

Thanks for correcting the typo.

Quoted message said:

I suspect they came from the usual place... 🙂

Atkins Center does occasionally gather data and they are the
source. Several years ago their was an example on their web
page of a person in ketosis who gained consistantly to the
point it had to be new fat not water. After several weeks of
questioning they finally got her to log everything she ate. Her
nightly snack was a stick of butter with cinnamon. A stick of
butter in the US is a quarter pound, about 115 grams of fat.
That's a thousand extra calories rounded off. That's in
addition to an otherwise common Atkins diet of low carb,
medium protein, high fat.

Ketosis may direct fat out of storage in the body because of
the glucagon, but it can't do that in the face of over eating.

Still, a big lunch is very unlikely to be that level of over eating.

BTW, I notice you're still mentally incapable of quoting. Sigh.
Not your fault the doctor dropped you on the head when you
were born.

Doug --

Here is your original statement:

Quoted message said:

Not even 500
calories extra in a day will be enough to push fat into storage
for most folks in ketosis, though 100 calories extra a day
would be enough.

Evidently, there is an obvious typo of 100 for 1000, or else you are
quite inconsistent.....

The figures that you quote above DO NOT substantiate that it requires
1000 calories (rounded off)...... unless you are inconsistent and
actually meant 100 calories would do it, but not even 500 calories would
not be enough.

I fully understand the poster who felt that your figures "came from the
usual place".

Perhaps, you can understand that reaction in people from carefully
reading your writings on this matter.

--
1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
3) Don't Diet Without Supplimental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
book
4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)

Roger Zoul said:

"Joe the Aroma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Hueyduck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi everyone,

I was wondering something very simple.
Is it possible for a body to produce fat while beeing in ketosis.
For me it would be a nonsense, but I'd rather ask if there is a known
answer.

The reason I ask this is that I don't count calories, sometimes. Once my
ketostix show purple, I just watch what I eat in order not to get too
much carbs. But sometimes, without counting, it seems like I eat quite
big lunch.
Thus my question. I'm not talking about muscle or water weight, but
really fat.

Thanks for your answers.

Huey

You can get fatter eating too many calories of anything. You eat enough
celery you will get fat (although it'd have to be mind boggling amounts).
The emphasis on ketosis is unfortunate in the LC world and I'd suspect
it's derailed many LC dieters. Ketosis does have one advantage and that is
it's appetite suppressing mechanism, which not everyone experiences.

I don't think ketosis is all of the problem...but somehow people have gotten
the notion that one can eat as much LC fatty food as they *want* and not
gain weight. I know I can. Some of us just like to eat, which is an
altogether different issue than eating because of bloor sugar swings.

Of course, it's complex too. For example, I never binge on steak but I can
binge on nuts. And nuts have some carbs (which, btw, seems to vary all over
the map depending on one's source for nutritional info). Eat a lot of nuts
and you start to get significant amounts of carbs AND fat. So, some of it
could be just do to sloppy LCing...

I have no problem with the notion that all diets essentially work on
the same principle - more calories out than calories in, and you lose.
Wreck that principle, and you gain. Kind of obvious.

Anyways, a little OT digression - the story about the lady who ate
the stick of butter with cinnamon reminded me of a 'Simpsons' reference
(early on in the first season of the show).... I don't remember the
context, but Homer takes 1) waffle mix, 2) some sort of hard candies
(toffee?) 3) liquid smoke, and throws all three into a waffle iron.
Then, after the mixture calcifies under the heat of the iron, he peels
it out, wraps the whole mess around a stick of butter, and sticks the
whole thing on a toothpick before eating it.

Can anyone help me with this reference (or recipe)? It's been a
while since I've watched the show.

Ernst Primer said:

Roger Zoul wrote:

Quoted message said:

Can anyone help me with this reference (or recipe)? It's been a
while since I've watched the show.

It's season 4 episode 3, "Homer the Heretic".

Huey

jbuch said:

Doug Freyburger said:

Quoted message said:

"4. Roger Zoul Feb 3, 10:30 pm

>What? Assuming you meant 1000, where did you get these numbers? "

Thanks for correcting the typo.

Quoted message said:

I suspect they came from the usual place... 🙂

Atkins Center does occasionally gather data and they are the
source. Several years ago their was an example on their web
page of a person in ketosis who gained consistantly to the
point it had to be new fat not water. After several weeks of
questioning they finally got her to log everything she ate. Her
nightly snack was a stick of butter with cinnamon. A stick of
butter in the US is a quarter pound, about 115 grams of fat.
That's a thousand extra calories rounded off. That's in
addition to an otherwise common Atkins diet of low carb,
medium protein, high fat.

Ketosis may direct fat out of storage in the body because of
the glucagon, but it can't do that in the face of over eating.

Still, a big lunch is very unlikely to be that level of over eating.

BTW, I notice you're still mentally incapable of quoting. Sigh.
Not your fault the doctor dropped you on the head when you
were born.

Doug --

Here is your original statement:

Quoted message said:

Not even 500
calories extra in a day will be enough to push fat into storage
for most folks in ketosis, though 100 calories extra a day
would be enough.

Evidently, there is an obvious typo of 100 for 1000, or else you are
quite inconsistent.....

The figures that you quote above DO NOT substantiate that it requires
1000 calories (rounded off)...... unless you are inconsistent and
actually meant 100 calories would do it, but not even 500 calories would
not be enough.

I fully understand the poster who felt that your figures "came from the
usual place".

Perhaps, you can understand that reaction in people from carefully
reading your writings on this matter.

Now he attributes these numbers to Atkins Center? Link please. So
based on memories of years ago of an alleged one person data point,
advice and actual numbers are once again stated as if they were
established fact. In fact, I don't think any of us have seen any
similar numbers anywhere else.