"Giant" dissapointment

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

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B a r r y B u r k e J r . <[email hidden]> wrote

in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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Super Slinky said:

Absolutely. They have the 'bigger must be better' thing going for them to impress those who
don't know better.

Have you ever ridden a Giant? Compare it value and quality wise with any other mass-produced
ride at the same price point. They do a great job.

Mountain biking is not about "value", Barry. It's about riding bicycles.

<snip>

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That's all fine and dandy, but how many other bikes have these sheep ridden? Their "experience" is
limited unless they have ridden a real quality handbuilt mountain bike because cookie cutters are
no match.

For most people 'value' has to fit into the equation somewhere, doesn't it? If your comparison was
applied to cars, people would have limited experience unless they have driven a Ferrari. But not
everyone can afford a Ferrari or find one they're allowed to test drive. Surely there's some merit
in a cookie-cutter?
--
Westie (Replace 'invalid' with 'yahoo' when replying.)

Super Slinky said:

I'm not trying to knock Giant, but the comment I responded to inferred that because they sell more
they must be better.

Who said that?

I said "they outsold Kona 3-1 so they must be doing something right", in relation to the fact that
Giant dosen't put prices on the web.

This was simply meant to infer that publishing a price on the web, vs. a price range, as Giant does
dosen't necessarily drive away business.

Kona makes some nice bikes for the money, as does Giant.

Barry

B a r r y B u r k e J r . <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

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(JD) said:

Mountain biking is not about "value", Barry. It's about riding bicycles.

No way! So THAT'S what I've been missing all this time. <G>

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That's all fine and dandy, but how many other bikes have these sheep ridden? Their "experience"
is limited unless they have ridden a real quality handbuilt mountain bike because cookie cutters
are no match.

Plenty of them, including myself, have ridden many hand built machines.

I'd like to see a percentage in those giant worshipers who actually have. My guess is that it would
be pretty small.

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I've ridden Seven, Ibis, Litespeed, IF, ClifCat, just to name a few. They are great to ride, touch
and look at. The frames are beautifully made, some approach musical instrument quality.

Then you know.

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However, I don't think a rider has to spend $3k on a frame to get a great riding bicycle. I will
say that boutique hard tails ride nicer than any cookie cutter frame I've ridden.

I don't think one needs to spend $3k either. Carl Strong makes excellent custom steel hardtail
frames for much less than $3k.

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I can't say the same for full bouncers.

You haven't ridden enough or the right botique boingers then. I'd never trust anything less than a
full DH cookie cutter bike for XC riding because every XC cookie cutter bike I have ridden has been
like riding a rubber band. The Titus, Ventana, Ellsworth (yeah even them), and Turner FS bikes I
have ridden were easily a cut above the cookie junkers.

JD

Westie said...

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For most people 'value' has to fit into the equation somewhere, doesn't it? If your comparison was
applied to cars, people would have limited experience unless they have driven a Ferrari. But not
everyone can afford a Ferrari or find one they're allowed to test drive. Surely there's some merit
in a cookie-cutter?

But the price difference between the nicer mass produced bikes and building up a boutique frame
isn't that great. All of the Giant VT line lists for more than $2000 with the VT 1 being $3000 or
more. I could have built a Titus Racer-X with a Chris King wheelset, Fox Vanilla, Hayes
hydraulics, Thompson stem and seat post and the rest XT for $3200. The only things not included
were the pedals and saddle. Giant makes a nice bike, but I would take that setup over anything
offered by the big names.

"MTBScottie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
| Giant finally jumped in line with many of the other manufacturers and has released it's 2004
| lineup. As stated by Nelson, alot of the so called
"spring
| collection bikes" have carried over to 2004. The VT does now indeed have
a
| "3", and the NRS "3" is now gone.
|
| Not sure what there reasons are for some of their lineup moves, but I've
been
| left a bit dissapointed.

We can't figure out exactly what they're up to. The 2003 NRS2 was a very popular bike and the NRS3
was a good price point. Combining the two creates a bike too expensive to be like the old 3 and
poorly equipped compared to the old 2.

They're also building back to shoving disc brakes down our throats with hard tails, but that's
another story.

---
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The Nelson Paradigm said:

They're also building back to shoving disc brakes down our throats with hard tails, but that's
another story.

Here comes Barry Sanders. =8^)

Barry

"Super Slinky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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Westie said...

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For most people 'value' has to fit into the equation somewhere, doesn't

it?

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If your comparison was applied to cars, people would have limited

experience

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unless they have driven a Ferrari. But not everyone can afford a Ferrari or find one they're
allowed to

test

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drive. Surely there's some merit in a cookie-cutter?

But the price difference between the nicer mass produced bikes and building up a boutique frame
isn't that great. All of the Giant VT line lists for more than $2000 with the VT 1 being $3000 or
more. I could have built a Titus Racer-X with a Chris King wheelset, Fox Vanilla, Hayes
hydraulics, Thompson stem and seat post and the rest XT for $3200. The only things not included
were the pedals and saddle. Giant makes a nice bike, but I would take that setup over anything
offered by the big names.

Good point. I'm not 100% sure what the prices are like for the boutique frames. I simply haven't
seen any here. New Zealand is a smaller market and a long way from home for most of the boutique
manufacturers. I toyed with the idea of building up a Blur last year but I couldn't import one and
build it up with decent components for any less than NZD$7000 so that kinda cooled my enthusiasm for
boutique frames. At the time, it was a full susser I was interested in and something that I could
ride immediately too. I'll probably still do it one day, but not this year.

Certainly for me being able to walk into a shop, examine, testride, fit and buy a bike that has a
good reputation is important. Realistically for me to get a boutique bike, I have to import a frame
I've never ridden or been fitted for, take time and money (buying components separately is more
expensive than buying a complete bike of course) and knowledge to buy it, and build it. Maybe it's
not whole lot of hassle for people on the group here but for your average rider it's a big leap. I
can see why Giant is so popular.
--
Westie (Replace 'invalid' with 'yahoo' when replying.)

Westie said...

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Good point. I'm not 100% sure what the prices are like for the boutique frames. I simply haven't
seen any here. New Zealand is a smaller market and a long way from home for most of the boutique
manufacturers. I toyed with the idea of building up a Blur last year but I couldn't import one and
build it up with decent components for any less than NZD$7000 so that kinda cooled my enthusiasm
for boutique frames. At the time, it was a full susser I was interested in and something that I
could ride immediately too. I'll probably still do it one day, but not this year.

Certainly for me being able to walk into a shop, examine, testride, fit and buy a bike that has a
good reputation is important. Realistically for me to get a boutique bike, I have to import a
frame I've never ridden or been fitted for, take time and money (buying components separately is
more expensive than buying a complete bike of course) and knowledge to buy it, and build it. Maybe
it's not whole lot of hassle for people on the group here but for your average rider it's a big
leap. I can see why Giant is so popular.

Living in NZ would definitely complicate things. I'm always surprised to hear what people pay for
things outside of the US.