GPS Recommendations

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I can recommend against one model, the Garmin etrek Vista. It has 24
meg of memory and and upload maps of sections of the USA which is all
very nice. You can download track logs of your routes which is also
nice. The problem with the unit is that if you leave it on while you
ride it will turn its self off. I think the problem has to do with the
batteries losing contact when you hit bumps. I asked Garmin about this
problem and they said it was designed for alkaline batteries and that
rechargeable batteries weren't the same physical dimensions. I tried
the alkalines but they had the same problem. I haven't found any
solution.

Ted

Quoted message said:

I would like something small that will upload/download to a computer.
Something that will also track altitude and/or grade changes will riding.

I've been using a Garmin eMap instead of a cyclometer for over five
years. For the best altitude profiles I'd recommend one of the Garmins
that includes a pressure sensor. AFAIK, Garmin is the only
manufacturer that combines the best attributes of GPS measurement and
pressure measurement to determine the altitude. Basically GPS has
almost no longterm bias but isn't very stable and is subject to
reception problems whereas the pressure is subject to longterm weather
changes but is accurate and stable in the shortterm. So the Garmin
models like the VistaC use the longterm averaged difference between the
GPS and pressure sensor to automatically recalibrate the pressure
reading to correct for weather changes. Other makes with pressure
sensors (like Magellan) just use the data separately and don't provide
this automatic calibration feature.

The VistaC would be a good choice for cycling - its antenna is oriented
for best performance when nearly horizontal like it would be on the
handlebar mount and it includes the pressure sensor and shows you the
ride profile and data like cumulative climb directly on the screen as
well as showing it on your PC. The CitySelect-NA version 7 map
software would be good to get with it so you'd have accurate street
maps including residential streets and almost all rural roads (the
included basemap only shows main roads and highways).

Ted said:

I can recommend against one model, the Garmin etrek Vista. It has 24
meg of memory and and upload maps of sections of the USA which is all
very nice. You can download track logs of your routes which is also
nice. The problem with the unit is that if you leave it on while you
ride it will turn its self off. I think the problem has to do with the
batteries losing contact when you hit bumps. I asked Garmin about this
problem and they said it was designed for alkaline batteries and that
rechargeable batteries weren't the same physical dimensions. I tried
the alkalines but they had the same problem. I haven't found any
solution.

I won't say that this is not a frustrating aspect of the Vista, but I
have had success by placing a pad inside the case of foam-rubber or
that springy packing-bag stuff that seems to come around most things.
This isn't bubble wrap, but a layer of padding that holds the
batteries very snugly inside the compartment. I have used all types of
standard and rechargeable batteries with this addition and have had no
problems. I had to make a small slit in the padding to allow the
locking mechanism to pass through it.

My major problem was with the Garmin Handlebar mount; the abuse that
the unit took when hard-mounted to the bike was too much for one unit
(Garmin repaired it for free), but now I just slip my GPS into a
jersey pocket, and it is pretty safe and works accurately there. Not
much use for on-the-fly mapping, but I only use it for recording new
routes (and finding my way home afterwards) and also for calibrating
my cyclo-computers (distance).

Quoted message said:

The VistaC would be a good choice for cycling - its antenna is oriented
for best performance when nearly horizontal like it would be on the
handlebar mount and it includes the pressure sensor and shows you the
ride profile and data like cumulative climb directly on the screen as
well as showing it on your PC. The CitySelect-NA version 7 map
software would be good to get with it so you'd have accurate street
maps including residential streets and almost all rural roads (the
included basemap only shows main roads and highways).

Second the Vista C. Much better satellite reception, faster performance,
and longer battery life than the original Vista.
--
Pete Rissler
http://web1.greatbasin.net/~rissler/
http://www.tccycling.com

Jason Settles said:

Does anyone use a GPS while cycling?

I'm looking for recommendations/suggestions for usage.
I would like something small that will upload/download to a computer.
Something that will also track altitude and/or grade changes will riding.

I have experience with a Garmin III Plus as well as considerable software
background so I am open to high tech suggestions.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
*Jason. in Indy

I have a GPSmap 60CS. It is very nice -- good electronics and seemingly
impervious to vibration and rain. The mount for it is solid. It will
track and graph altitude changes, but will not give you %grade. Glide
ratio is available in the form 20:1, which reads 1 unit fall for 20
units horizontal, but it won't tell you the uphill ratio.

The software seems to be well written. I haven't as yet found any bugs.
The maps (mapsource) that you must buy separately (United States TOPO)
are marginal at best: they are old, with lots of missing detail and full
of errors. It took quite some effort for me to find out that this was
the set of maps I needed -- both the manual and on-line information are
confusing.

The manuals are marginal too. I have had to call them twice in order to
learn things not stated in the manuals, one of which was that tracking
needs to be ON in order to see an elevation plot. It's a half hour hold
on the phone and the technicians are not necessarily on top of things.

In spite of it all, I think the product is worth the price, and I find
it useful.

--
Bob Wheeler --- http://www.bobwheeler.com/
ECHIP, Inc. ---
Randomness comes in bunches.

Jason Settles said:

Does anyone use a GPS while cycling?

I'm looking for recommendations/suggestions for usage.
I would like something small that will upload/download to a computer.
Something that will also track altitude and/or grade changes will riding.

I have experience with a Garmin III Plus as well as considerable software
background so I am open to high tech suggestions.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
*Jason. in Indy

I use a Garmin e-trex legend. You would need a model higher in the
range to do altitude (e.g Summit).

The handlebar mount is excellent - secure and easy to transfer from one
bike to another. Weather proofing is excellent.

I use Ordnance Survey mapping (using TrackLogs digital mapping
software) to plan routes (in UK) as the Garmin mapping (Map Source)
lacks off-road paths and topographic information. I then download
these to the GPS to give a scrolling map of the route.

The other useful feature is the ETA, making sure you know how hard to
pedal to get to the station on time or home for lunch etc.

Andrew

"Jason Settles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message .

Quoted message said:

Does anyone use a GPS while cycling?

I'm looking for recommendations/suggestions for usage.
I would like something small that will upload/download to a computer.
Something that will also track altitude and/or grade changes will riding.

I have experience with a Garmin III Plus as well as considerable software
background so I am open to high tech suggestions.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
*Jason. in Indy

I have used the original Garmin Vista, and did experience the auto-shut-off
issue related to loose Lithium batteries, but also had luck with a rubber
shim. The Lithiums do extend battery life, are expensive, but are almost a
required item as the Vista eats alkalines.

The software does allow an up-load of a track to PC as well as download of a
map, but does not allow routes to be complied on a PC and downloaded, or
I've never been able to do it ! though I think you can download routes from
Delorme products - never bothered though. The built in tracklog is good for
about a 22 mile ride, or one way track, before it "wraps around" the log of
waypoints it writes. You also want to set it to the finest resolution so it
will write a lot of waypoints on a track log, else it cuts corners on twisty
roads and the ride log reads short. Thus a regular $25 bike computer can be
more accurate, especially in the woods, where any GPS may lose a signal.

Bottom line is it's an expensive gadget for everyday riding, but useful if
you are riding in an area where you might get lost, and/or are creating a
cue sheet.

SB

Ted said:

I can recommend against one model, the Garmin etrek Vista. It has 24
meg of memory and and upload maps of sections of the USA which is all
very nice. You can download track logs of your routes which is also
nice. The problem with the unit is that if you leave it on while you
ride it will turn its self off. I think the problem has to do with the
batteries losing contact when you hit bumps. I asked Garmin about this
problem and they said it was designed for alkaline batteries and that
rechargeable batteries weren't the same physical dimensions. I tried
the alkalines but they had the same problem. I haven't found any
solution.

FAQ item for anyone with the eTrex series. Shim the battery contacts.
Works fine. This information has been discussed in the GPS forums
since at least 2000, probably earlier.

- rick

Jason Settles said:

Does anyone use a GPS while cycling?

I'm looking for recommendations/suggestions for usage.
I would like something small that will upload/download to a computer.
Something that will also track altitude and/or grade changes will riding.

I have experience with a Garmin III Plus as well as considerable software
background so I am open to high tech suggestions.

I use one all the time. Both road biike and off-road.
There are lots of factors depending on what you would hope to actually
do, but ultimately the GPS unit you choose may be less significant than
software that you use in conjunction with it.

Check out Topofusion.com for truly excellent mapping/training log
software. (Written by bikers, well written at that) It's got about
every nifty feature that a biker might want. (tracks, profiles, 3D
mapping, Training log, virtual racing with scaled time tracks, route
planning, average speed, climbing ....)

Take a look at the Garmin ForeTREX. It's hard to beat for
basic usefulness (essentially the same as a Geko 201) and compactness
(very small) unless you decide you need a "mapping" unit. (and even the
fortrex will let you display a track that you have created while
showing where you are) My biggest complaint ( a minor one at that) is
that the batteries are not removable which means that once they're
dead, the unit has to be recharged unless you rig up some sort of
external power pack (which I have done).

I've used a Garmin Legend extensively too. It's excellent and I suspect
the newr color version is even better. I have never seen any real need
for a unit with a barometric altimeter built in, since the GPS
altimeter is quite accurate any time you are getting a decent satellite
fix. A unit with a Barometeric altimer will also go through batteries a
bit quicker.

DR

Ted wrote:
[re Etrex]

Quoted message said:

...The problem with the unit is that if you leave it on while you
ride it will turn its self off. I think the problem has to do with the
batteries losing contact when you hit bumps. I asked Garmin about this
problem and they said it was designed for alkaline batteries and that
rechargeable batteries weren't the same physical dimensions. I tried
the alkalines but they had the same problem.

Other have described similar solutions but here's mine:
http://www.members.aol.com/dirtroadie/bike/etrexshim.jpg
The two tiny strips (1cm) are thin closed cell weatherstripping which
fills just enough space to keep the batteries from being able to move
but compresses without creating any stress on the case cover.

Battery size can definitely be an issue but I have not had any recent
problems with rechargeables. In fact my only experience with loose
batteries was with some old 1300 mAH AA's. I'll bet almost all
batteries made today are much "snugger" since they have to pack the
"juice" in somehow.

DR

"Jason Settles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone use a GPS while cycling?

I'm looking for recommendations/suggestions for usage.
I would like something small that will upload/download to a computer.
Something that will also track altitude and/or grade changes will riding.

I have experience with a Garmin III Plus as well as considerable software
background so I am open to high tech suggestions.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
*Jason. in Indy

I have been using a Garmin Forerunner 201.
http://www.garmin.com/products/forerunner201/
It is inexpensive (~ $150) and seems very accurate. It records distances to
within a fraction of a percent of what my cycle computer records (Ciclosport
436M). It will display current speed, elevation, distance, time, etc. The
201 downloads to computer and the software will export a data file (*.xml)
of Lat/Long & Elev that can be loaded into Excel, etc.

you can also overlay data on maps:
http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/map?form=forerunner

My main gripe with the 201 was the data capacity which was something like 8
hours even though the rechargeable battery runs for about 15 hours. New
software updates may have fixed this but I haven't been on any 15 hour rides
to check. I did a 10 hour ride this year and it worked fine.

Dan

I got a Garmin 60CS in June and I'm very happy with it. Although slightly
larger thant the Vista or Legend it has a larger color screen that is easy
to read and has more memory so it can hold more map data. I use it with the
handlebar mount which works great and it is easy to read while biking during
the daytime. I use Alkaline AA batteries which seem to last quite awhile
and haven't had any problem with it at all. I find the odometer very
accurate and I also use it in my car when I'm not biking. It also includes
a compass and altimeter. I highly recommend it.

Chuck

"Jason Settles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone use a GPS while cycling?

I'm looking for recommendations/suggestions for usage.
I would like something small that will upload/download to a computer.
Something that will also track altitude and/or grade changes will riding.

I have experience with a Garmin III Plus as well as considerable software
background so I am open to high tech suggestions.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
*Jason. in Indy

Ted said:

I can recommend against one model, the Garmin etrek Vista. It has 24
meg of memory and and upload maps of sections of the USA which is all
very nice. You can download track logs of your routes which is also
nice. The problem with the unit is that if you leave it on while you
ride it will turn its self off. I think the problem has to do with the
batteries losing contact when you hit bumps. I asked Garmin about this
problem and they said it was designed for alkaline batteries and that
rechargeable batteries weren't the same physical dimensions. I tried
the alkalines but they had the same problem. I haven't found any
solution.

Ted

==============================================

I had the same problem with my Garmin eMap. Solved it by mounting it on
foam rubber. I glued some Velcro to the foam rubber, and put Velcro on
the back of the GPS.

A safety strap loops over my odometer/computer thingy, which saved this
GPS one time from flying away when I hit a big bump.

Dirtroadie makes a lot of sense. I've used several GPS receivers since
1998. Over the last 16 months my favorite is a Garmin Foretrex for
biking, hiking, even driving. IMO any paper map is almost always
better than an electronic map on a small screen.

That said, if you really want a mapping GPSR, look closely at the
Legend C / Vista C. The 60C is also good, but designed to be held more
vertical. Garmin's website has a good viewer app for their software.
Anyone considering a mapping GPSR should spend a lot of time reviewing
the *content* of the maps.

See http://www.gpsinformation.org and sci.geo.satellite-nav

Bob Wheeler said:

I have a GPSmap 60CS.

Would the new Garmin Quest be too big and cumbersome
for biking and outdoor use?

John

Quoted message said:

Would the new Garmin Quest be too big and cumbersome
for biking and outdoor use?

No, it's actually quite small - much smaller than it appears to be in
the Garmin picture.

My main concern with the Quest and Quest2 is that they have an internal
(non-userserviceable) Lithium ion cell. That can be a problem when
bike touring or backpacking away from electric outlets. I also expect
that the cell will degrade over time and eventually need replacing.

Quoted message said:

Bob Wheeler said:

I have a GPSmap 60CS.

Would the new Garmin Quest be too big and cumbersome
for biking and outdoor use?

John

I use the Garmin GPS72. It's water-proof and it floats.I can also
connect it to my computer to upload/download points and tracks.

Zoom

peter said:

My main concern with the Quest and Quest2 is that they have an internal
(non-userserviceable) Lithium ion cell. That can be a problem when
bike touring or backpacking away from electric outlets. I also expect
that the cell will degrade over time and eventually need replacing.

Wow I didn't know that!!

So this cell can not be replaced by the user then?

If yes... that eliminates the Quest for me right there

John