GPS unit recommendations?

Terry Pinnell said:

After its poor performance during a couple of days holiday in Prague,
when it was mainly either 'Acquiring EPE Signal' or reporting 'Poor
GPS Signal', I must finally get around to replacing my Garmin GPS 12,
after many years of useful service.

Any recommendations for a robust but sensitive GPS model would be
appreciated please. Ideally I need one with a standard SD card to
allow me to download tracklogs onto my PC on return from walking
holidays. (With the GPS 12's maximum storage capacity of 1024
trackpoints, I currently do this by transferring them nightly onto my
Pocket PC, using G7ToCE, then onto PC later.)

I bought a Garmin GPSmap 60CSx after my etrex vista refused to lock on
at about 9500ft up Sas De Pordoi in the Italian Dolomites. This worried
me slightly, as the conditions we were walking in, snow on the ground,
thick cloud and drizzle, coupled with some *very* big cliffs, were such
that a working GPS may have come in handy 🙂
The 60CSx has one of the new 12 channel SiRFstar GPS receivers,
sensitive enough to give a fix in my living room!
It seems quite solid (been dropped a few times), and is waterproof.
It uses microSD cards, and can handle upto 10,000 trackpoints (20 saved
tracks of 500 points)

--
Dave McLaughlin
[censored] Sapiens Non Urinat In Ventum

http://dave-mclaughlin.fotopic.net/

Terry Pinnell said:

After its poor performance during a couple of days holiday in Prague,
when it was mainly either 'Acquiring EPE Signal' or reporting 'Poor
GPS Signal', I must finally get around to replacing my Garmin GPS 12,
after many years of useful service.

It is kind of like having to put down a faithful old dog, isn't it? I
have about four or five old GPS receivers laying here simply because I
can't bring myself to get rid of them. Besides, they're not worth much
of anything to anyone.

Quoted message said:

Any recommendations for a robust but sensitive GPS model would be
appreciated please. Ideally I need one with a standard SD card to
allow me to download tracklogs onto my PC on return from walking
holidays. (With the GPS 12's maximum storage capacity of 1024
trackpoints, I currently do this by transferring them nightly onto my
Pocket PC, using G7ToCE, then onto PC later.)

Almost any one of the Garmin handhelds would fill the bill for you. To
get the external storage (uses a microSD card which will normally come
with a microSD to SD adapter) you would have to look at some of the
mapping models as listed here:

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=145

Any of the models with an "x" in their model names will have a microSD
card. The 60/76 Cx/CSx models have the SiRF III chip set and are
arguably the top performers as far as sensitivity and processing speed.

The models with a "H" in their names use a not specifically
identified/slightly more generic (MediaTek?) GPS chip set that may or
may not perform as well as the SiRF III. It is not conclusive yet that
they are equal to the 60/76 Cx/CSx in performance.

The specs for the GPSMAP (60/76 Cx/CSx) models mention their using a
quad helix antenna that would, of course, play a part in sensitivity and
performance. No mention is made of the antenna type for the cheaper
eTrex Vista models. The inference is that the GPSMAPs may have better
antennas than the eTrex Vistas but that is not known to be the case for
certain.

If you are looking for the best performance and planning on keeping and
using the handheld for quite some time, I'd recommend spending the extra
money for one of the GPSMAP "x" series models. I have the 76Cx and am
very happy with it.

Garmin can be sort of hit and miss as far as comparing models and
features from their web pages. It might just be that they are not
mentioning all the same details of info in the specs for both model lines.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Jack Erbes said:

Terry Pinnell said:

After its poor performance during a couple of days holiday in Prague,
when it was mainly either 'Acquiring EPE Signal' or reporting 'Poor
GPS Signal', I must finally get around to replacing my Garmin GPS 12,
after many years of useful service.

It is kind of like having to put down a faithful old dog, isn't it? I
have about four or five old GPS receivers laying here simply because I
can't bring myself to get rid of them. Besides, they're not worth much
of anything to anyone.

Quoted message said:

Any recommendations for a robust but sensitive GPS model would be
appreciated please. Ideally I need one with a standard SD card to
allow me to download tracklogs onto my PC on return from walking
holidays. (With the GPS 12's maximum storage capacity of 1024
trackpoints, I currently do this by transferring them nightly onto my
Pocket PC, using G7ToCE, then onto PC later.)

Almost any one of the Garmin handhelds would fill the bill for you. To
get the external storage (uses a microSD card which will normally come
with a microSD to SD adapter) you would have to look at some of the
mapping models as listed here:

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=145

Any of the models with an "x" in their model names will have a microSD
card. The 60/76 Cx/CSx models have the SiRF III chip set and are
arguably the top performers as far as sensitivity and processing speed.

The models with a "H" in their names use a not specifically
identified/slightly more generic (MediaTek?) GPS chip set that may or
may not perform as well as the SiRF III. It is not conclusive yet that
they are equal to the 60/76 Cx/CSx in performance.

The specs for the GPSMAP (60/76 Cx/CSx) models mention their using a
quad helix antenna that would, of course, play a part in sensitivity and
performance. No mention is made of the antenna type for the cheaper
eTrex Vista models. The inference is that the GPSMAPs may have better
antennas than the eTrex Vistas but that is not known to be the case for
certain.

If you are looking for the best performance and planning on keeping and
using the handheld for quite some time, I'd recommend spending the extra
money for one of the GPSMAP "x" series models. I have the 76Cx and am
very happy with it.

Garmin can be sort of hit and miss as far as comparing models and
features from their web pages. It might just be that they are not
mentioning all the same details of info in the specs for both model lines.

Jack

Thanks both. Will study those recommendations carefully. Not familiar
with 'micro-SD' cards, so guess I'll have to be careful to ensure I
have easy inter-operability with my PC (which definitely does not have
a micro-SD card reader.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Terry Pinnell said:

Jack Erbes said:

Terry Pinnell said:

After its poor performance during a couple of days holiday in Prague,
when it was mainly either 'Acquiring EPE Signal' or reporting 'Poor
GPS Signal', I must finally get around to replacing my Garmin GPS 12,
after many years of useful service.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Almost any one of the Garmin handhelds would fill the bill for you. To
get the external storage (uses a microSD card which will normally come
with a microSD to SD adapter) you would have to look at some of the
mapping models as listed here:

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=145

Any of the models with an "x" in their model names will have a microSD
card. The 60/76 Cx/CSx models have the SiRF III chip set and are
arguably the top performers as far as sensitivity and processing speed.

Quoted message said:

Thanks both. Will study those recommendations carefully. Not familiar
with 'micro-SD' cards, so guess I'll have to be careful to ensure I
have easy inter-operability with my PC (which definitely does not have
a micro-SD card reader.

The micro cards tend come with an adapter to fit them to a standard SD
reader. Just watch out when you buy one to get a micro, there are also
mini sd cards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sd_cards

The models with the card can be set to record the active track to the
card in effect giving limitless track capacity. This track is written
as one file per day and retains the timestamp where it is not saved
when you save a track in the built in memory.
--
Phil Cook, last hill: Geal Charn above Glen Markie

The message <[email hidden]>
from Terry Pinnell <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Thanks both. Will study those recommendations carefully. Not familiar
with 'micro-SD' cards, so guess I'll have to be careful to ensure I
have easy inter-operability with my PC (which definitely does not have
a micro-SD card reader.

I have a Garmin Map 60CSx, which I bought in succession to an eTrex
Summit, which ate batteries, was prone to the exciting multi-path effect
and requires a proprietory (=££$$) serial cable to up/down load.

The 60CSx, which I bought off the net from some set up in Portugal, has
not yet done a multi-path, as others have said, it will get a lock
indoors, and is perfectly happy in thick forest. It has a mini usb port
(same like on most digital cameras) which will take any of the cables
that came with each of your old cameras. The micro-SD card is not really
a problem - it comes with a 128Mb card fitted, which is small, by
today's standards. This card is used, as far as I can see, for storage
of externally loaded mapping, and for writing of .gpx log files.

I have not bought any of Garmin's exorbitant OS mapping - I use a
Memory-Map print-out in an Ortlieb case, but have fitted a 2Gb micro
card, and loaded the contours, with summits and water features for the
whole of GB & Ireland which I downloaded free off the SMC's web-site.
Because I was daft enough to buy Win xp x64 (at a special bargain price)
for my desktop machine I cannot do a routine download of the day's saved
tracks onto Memory Map, but this is small problem, because a little
mentioned feature (which does work with 64 bit XP) is to select Setup >
Interface> USB Mass Storage, and the machine then pretends that it is a
usb flash disk, from which I copy the day's .gpx, and then import that
into Memory Map, and hey presto!

You really do NOT need to touch the microSD card, assuming you get a
good big one - if you have normal 32 bit windows, you can download track
in the normal way via a usb cable, and upload way points/routes and all
the same way, and whether 32 or 64bit, you can access the storage on the
card as a flash drive.

There has to be something wrong with anything!

The eTrex has a nice small case, with a window on the front (which
swiftly mists up), and quite a long lanyard to tie the unit to the case,
and the case has a good tight spring clip on the back, to fix it onto a
rucksack strap, so you don't lose it.

The 60CSx has a curious round stud which can be screwed onto a hole on
the back of the case, which, in turn, clips into a sort of plastic
clothes peg, which you, presumably, clip onto a strap or something, but
it is clunky and sticks out to catch on things. There is a wee short
lanyard, which does NOT have a sliding bead to tighten it round your
wrist. I've "lost" it twice now - once descending from Torre in
Portugal, when a passing bush had caught the lanyard, and yanked it out
of my pocket, and the other time, just as I started the steep path up to
Coire Domhain, exiting from the Shelter Stone. Both times it was a while
until I neaded to check something, and had to climb up (and back down)
the first time, and right down (and sweating back up) the second time.

I must look and see if any of the retailers does a sensible lanyard, but
otherwise, I think the 60CSx is unbeatable.

One small thingfor any new modern GPS - go to Jessops and buy a pack of
their little sheets of tough transparent self adhesive film to put over
the window and protect it from scratches - designed for telephones and
digi-cameras.

Richard

The message <[email hidden]>
from Phil Cook <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

-
Phil Cook, last hill: Geal Charn above Glen Markie

You should have dropped in for a dram afterwards!

Richard
NN639943

Richard Spencer said:

The message <[email hidden]>
from Terry Pinnell <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Thanks both. Will study those recommendations carefully. Not familiar
with 'micro-SD' cards, so guess I'll have to be careful to ensure I
have easy inter-operability with my PC (which definitely does not have
a micro-SD card reader.

I have a Garmin Map 60CSx, which I bought in succession to an eTrex
Summit, which ate batteries, was prone to the exciting multi-path effect
and requires a proprietory (=££$$) serial cable to up/down load.

The 60CSx, which I bought off the net from some set up in Portugal, has
not yet done a multi-path, as others have said, it will get a lock
indoors, and is perfectly happy in thick forest. It has a mini usb port
(same like on most digital cameras) which will take any of the cables
that came with each of your old cameras. The micro-SD card is not really
a problem - it comes with a 128Mb card fitted, which is small, by
today's standards. This card is used, as far as I can see, for storage
of externally loaded mapping, and for writing of .gpx log files.

I have not bought any of Garmin's exorbitant OS mapping - I use a
Memory-Map print-out in an Ortlieb case, but have fitted a 2Gb micro
card, and loaded the contours, with summits and water features for the
whole of GB & Ireland which I downloaded free off the SMC's web-site.
Because I was daft enough to buy Win xp x64 (at a special bargain price)
for my desktop machine I cannot do a routine download of the day's saved
tracks onto Memory Map, but this is small problem, because a little
mentioned feature (which does work with 64 bit XP) is to select Setup >
Interface> USB Mass Storage, and the machine then pretends that it is a
usb flash disk, from which I copy the day's .gpx, and then import that
into Memory Map, and hey presto!

You really do NOT need to touch the microSD card, assuming you get a
good big one - if you have normal 32 bit windows, you can download track
in the normal way via a usb cable, and upload way points/routes and all
the same way, and whether 32 or 64bit, you can access the storage on the
card as a flash drive.

There has to be something wrong with anything!

The eTrex has a nice small case, with a window on the front (which
swiftly mists up), and quite a long lanyard to tie the unit to the case,
and the case has a good tight spring clip on the back, to fix it onto a
rucksack strap, so you don't lose it.

The 60CSx has a curious round stud which can be screwed onto a hole on
the back of the case, which, in turn, clips into a sort of plastic
clothes peg, which you, presumably, clip onto a strap or something, but
it is clunky and sticks out to catch on things. There is a wee short
lanyard, which does NOT have a sliding bead to tighten it round your
wrist. I've "lost" it twice now - once descending from Torre in
Portugal, when a passing bush had caught the lanyard, and yanked it out
of my pocket, and the other time, just as I started the steep path up to
Coire Domhain, exiting from the Shelter Stone. Both times it was a while
until I neaded to check something, and had to climb up (and back down)
the first time, and right down (and sweating back up) the second time.

I must look and see if any of the retailers does a sensible lanyard, but
otherwise, I think the 60CSx is unbeatable.

One small thingfor any new modern GPS - go to Jessops and buy a pack of
their little sheets of tough transparent self adhesive film to put over
the window and protect it from scratches - designed for telephones and
digi-cameras.

All this goes as same for 76CSx which is the same model with different
case which makes it float (designed for marine environment).

I bought a Neoprene case from eBay for about £10-£15 which protects the
screen and case if dropped, has a carabiner clip on the back for
attaching to a strap and a metal loop to which I attach a clip lanyard
from a referree whistle I got in a sports shop for a few quid. The
lanyard is bright yellow which is great if I drop it or set it down
anywhere and need to find it again and I keep the whistle in my bag as
my emergency whistle.

Richard Spencer said:

The message <[email hidden]>
from Phil Cook <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

-
Phil Cook, last hill: Geal Charn above Glen Markie

You should have dropped in for a dram afterwards!

Richard
NN639943

Humph! If I'd known, I might have. I was staying at the Strathspey
Hostel in Newtonmore for a couple of nights. The Glen Hotel served my
alcohol needs, though the range of ales was little uninspiring, I'd
been spoilt by the Clachaig. :-\

--
Phil Cook, last hill: Geal Charn above Glen Markie

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful
person Richard Spencer <[email hidden]> said
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I must look and see if any of the retailers does a sensible lanyard, but
otherwise, I think the 60CSx is unbeatable.

I bought a 2-piece mobile phone lanyard (about 18"😉 which has a quick
release connector between the two bits. The short bit stays on the
60CSX, the other bit is usually tied to a jacket pocket, and allows me
to use the GPS without any danger of it hitting the floor (or putting
too much strain on the external antenna connector).

see:

http://www.fonejunkie.com/krusell-accessories-neck-strap-blue-p-330.html

Yes, the supplied wrist strap is rubbish. The belt clip / stud combo is
OK, but clunky to use (and you need to locktite the stud into the 60CSX,
or else it can/will unscrew itself).

It is still the best (and most expensive) walking GPS out there.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
10,002 Km walked. 1,952 Km PROWs surveyed. 35.5% complete.

Phil Cook said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks both. Will study those recommendations carefully. Not familiar
with 'micro-SD' cards, so guess I'll have to be careful to ensure I
have easy inter-operability with my PC (which definitely does not have
a micro-SD card reader.

The micro cards tend come with an adapter to fit them to a standard SD
reader. Just watch out when you buy one to get a micro, there are also
mini sd cards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sd_cards

My micro-SD card reader is like a USB memory stick. The card plugs into
a slot in the side and it's then used just like a conventional USB
memory stick.

Jim Ford

GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful
person Richard Spencer <[email hidden]> said
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I must look and see if any of the retailers does a sensible lanyard, but
otherwise, I think the 60CSx is unbeatable.

I bought a 2-piece mobile phone lanyard (about 18"😉 which has a quick
release connector between the two bits. The short bit stays on the
60CSX, the other bit is usually tied to a jacket pocket, and allows me
to use the GPS without any danger of it hitting the floor (or putting
too much strain on the external antenna connector).

see:

http://www.fonejunkie.com/krusell-accessories-neck-strap-blue-p-330.html

Yes, the supplied wrist strap is rubbish. The belt clip / stud combo is
OK, but clunky to use (and you need to locktite the stud into the 60CSX,
or else it can/will unscrew itself).

It is still the best (and most expensive) walking GPS out there.

Many thanks for those very helpful further replies. From all the input
I've decided on either 60CSx or 76CSx. Apart from the floating feature
(of little concern to me as a walker), and the larger card (which I'd
change to a much larger one anyway, following Richard's approach), it
seems the only difference is the 'transflective' screen. What's the
low-down on that please?

60CSx 76CSx
------ -----
Screen 256 level color TFT 256 color transflective TFT
microSD card 64 MB microSD card (inc) 128 microSD card (inc)
Floats no yes

Also, I'm totally ignorant about MapSource. As a UK buyer, what do I
get as standard and what would I typically need to add as extra? Like
Richard, I have MemoryMap. So, although I haven't fully grasped the
details, it sounds as if I could get versatile usage on my Win XP
(32-bit) PC.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Terry Pinnell said:

Many thanks for those very helpful further replies. From all the input
I've decided on either 60CSx or 76CSx. Apart from the floating feature
(of little concern to me as a walker), and the larger card (which I'd
change to a much larger one anyway, following Richard's approach), it
seems the only difference is the 'transflective' screen. What's the
low-down on that please?

60CSx 76CSx
------ -----
Screen 256 level color TFT 256 color transflective TFT
microSD card 64 MB microSD card (inc) 128 microSD card (inc)
Floats no yes

Also, I'm totally ignorant about MapSource. As a UK buyer, what do I
get as standard and what would I typically need to add as extra? Like
Richard, I have MemoryMap. So, although I haven't fully grasped the
details, it sounds as if I could get versatile usage on my Win XP
(32-bit) PC.

I've never noticed anything special about the screen but a it's a colour
screen it's probably to do with how it deals with sunlight which can
cause distortion via reflection on many screens. I've never noticed a
problem with it outside so that may be it.

I was in the same situation as yourself earlier this year and in the end
it came down to price. I was buying from eBay via a US seller that
supplies to UK (not a strictly eBay.co.uk seller). The 76CSx, although
usually a bit more expensive worked out slightly cheaper. Buying in this
way (even though I had to pay a VAT fee to customs) worked out
significantly cheaper than buying in UK or Europe. The larger card swung
it for me. It is a slightly bulky unit but it's very light and not as
cumbersme as it looks.

You will usually get a copy of Mapsource with the unit (World Map and/or
Trips and Waypoints Manager) and there will be a standard basemap
installed on it already. For detail these are useless as they only show
major towns and a vague coastline. You can get various products (City
Navigator, Metroguide, etc) which give you more detail but they are
geared towards driving so won't have the offroad detail you want. The
SMC Maps mentioned earlier will give you more of these; contours, trigs,
summits, coastline and water features but still won't give you the
complexity and detail of an OS Map. Memory Map on a PDA is the only way
to do this but there are lots of problems talking one of these into the
hills with you too.

If you want more details on my eBay seller and Mapsource maps drop me an
email using urw AT croaghan DOT com

In article <[email hidden]>, Terry Pinnell
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

. From all the input
I've decided on either 60CSx or 76CSx.

Other than the difference you have noted the basic design of the units
is different. The 60 series has the buttons below the screen and the the
76 above the screen. Some people have not preference. Some bottom button
advocates say you obscure the screen when trying to use buttons above
one handed (you don't in my experience of the 12 series). Top button
advocates say that operating the buttons one handed means holding the
unit away from the centre of gravity so less naturally (I have found
that the case with an eMap).

At the end of the day it comes down to personal preference. I prefer
above. You might want to handle both units for real and decide for
yourself before buying.

The other thing you might want to consider is that the 60 & 76 series
are the largest units that Garmin produce for 'on the trail' so you
might want to look at something smaller / lighter depending on your
needs. The H models of the eTrex range have a MediaTek high sensitivity
receiver which performs as well as or better than the older SirfStar III
of the latest 60 / 76 models. The lowest spec eTrex H model goes for
£65, has the high sensitivity receiver and a track log of 10000 points.

--

Dominic Sexton

Terry Pinnell said:

........ From all the input
I've decided on either 60CSx or 76CSx.

Quoted message said:

Also, I'm totally ignorant about MapSource. As a UK buyer, what do I
get as standard and what would I typically need to add as extra?

You'll get the basic MapSource application with one of those units. It has a
"world map" and/or a very basic Europe map. (A few trunk roads on it). That
can handle waypoint/track/routes and their upload & download. However,
other tools may be better at tracks/routes/waypoints, etc..

For free, plus the effort of a small XP registry change, you can add the SMC
contour data, and several other things from other websites (I have France
and Swiss contour data, alpine mountain refuges, French communes, etc). More
than adequate, but read the SMC site about the accuracy caused from the way
it was built; you can't use the data to pin-point contour features! I've
also used the various mapping tools to build my own local maps; mostly of
tea stops for cycling.

For money, you can add any of Garmin's products. The main ones being the EU
road maps, and/or the Country topo maps. (Read various comments about the
road/track/path data on the UK Topo before deciding whether its worth it).
Officially Garmin will tell you that you must purchase the
full-routing-capable road maps (the most expensive form), however, the
non-routing versions will work, you just loose the ability to automatically
find a road route on the GPS. Up to you if this loss of function is worth
the saving.

BTW. Avoid the Gamin maps sold on a Micro-SD card rather than CD/DVD.
These mean you cannot then load another map onto the same card. Once you
get more than one map product (or one Garmin and one public domain), you'll
find it useful to have both loaded into the GPS at the same time. Swapping a
Micro-SD card in the field is not for the faint hearted; its the size of a
fingernail, so easily lost.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:18:53 +0000, Jack Erbes wrote
(in article <[email hidden]>😉:

Quoted message said:

Terry Pinnell said:

After its poor performance during a couple of days holiday in Prague,
when it was mainly either 'Acquiring EPE Signal' or reporting 'Poor
GPS Signal', I must finally get around to replacing my Garmin GPS 12,
after many years of useful service.

It is kind of like having to put down a faithful old dog, isn't it? I
have about four or five old GPS receivers laying here simply because I
can't bring myself to get rid of them. Besides, they're not worth much
of anything to anyone.

I don't understand. What happens to old GPS units to render them useless?

Is it like mobile phones, where apparently one can't be seen using last
year's model ;-)

--
Mike Lane (UK North Yorkshire)
To contact me replace invalid with mike underscore lane

Terry Pinnell wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Thanks both. Will study those recommendations carefully. Not familiar
with 'micro-SD' cards, so guess I'll have to be careful to ensure I
have easy inter-operability with my PC (which definitely does not have
a micro-SD card reader.

Those are about half the size of a SD card, like the size of your little
fingernail or so. Most of them come with a microSD to SD adapter that
allows all the loading and reading to be done in a SD slot.

When those were new there were no microSD readers but there are some
now. They are about key chain sized with the USB connector being the
biggest part of them.

Handling the microSD cards can be a bit of a challenge for those of us
with clumsier hands. I let my finger slip off as I popped one of mine
out and still lies to this day on the bottom of the Kennebec River at
Kennebunkport, ME. It went about three feet through the air with a
minor arc in the trajectory, skipped off of the transom of a boat, and
when last seen it was doing a falling leaf into the depths. It was
falling slow enough that I contemplated going after it but better sense
prevailed. :>😉

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Jack Erbes said:

Terry Pinnell wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Thanks both. Will study those recommendations carefully. Not familiar
with 'micro-SD' cards, so guess I'll have to be careful to ensure I
have easy inter-operability with my PC (which definitely does not have
a micro-SD card reader.

Those are about half the size of a SD card, like the size of your little
fingernail or so. Most of them come with a microSD to SD adapter that
allows all the loading and reading to be done in a SD slot.

When those were new there were no microSD readers but there are some
now. They are about key chain sized with the USB connector being the
biggest part of them.

Handling the microSD cards can be a bit of a challenge for those of us
with clumsier hands. I let my finger slip off as I popped one of mine
out and still lies to this day on the bottom of the Kennebec River at
Kennebunkport, ME. It went about three feet through the air with a
minor arc in the trajectory, skipped off of the transom of a boat, and
when last seen it was doing a falling leaf into the depths. It was
falling slow enough that I contemplated going after it but better sense
prevailed. :>😉

Jack

Thanks Jack. I empathise with that, er, sinking feeling you must have
felt as your card disappeared below the surface! I too would have been
tempted to go in after it. While fishing I've stripped off to recover
a snagged pike plug on a couple of occasions, but that was a lake
rather than a river. And a decade or so ago, when mortality was rarely
on my mind ;-)

It looks as if I'm definitely going to end up with a microSD card
type, so reckon I'd better ensure I remove it only when back at my
desk...

BTW, I've just started reading up on adding my own maps, but must say
my initial reaction is that it looks dauntingly complex ;-(

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Terry Pinnell said:

Many thanks for those very helpful further replies. From all the input
I've decided on either 60CSx or 76CSx. Apart from the floating feature
(of little concern to me as a walker), and the larger card (which I'd
change to a much larger one anyway, following Richard's approach), it
seems the only difference is the 'transflective' screen. What's the
low-down on that please?

I don't know about the screen, but the one on my 60CS works fine in
sunlight.

There is one big difference between the two units, the 76 is MUCH bigger,
yet it has the same size screen. I was surprised when I first saw the 76 in
real life, much bigger and bulkier than I'd like, but not heavy. You might
want to check the actual dimensions more closely.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/weblog/
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/weblog/pic-of-the-day/henrhyd-falls/

Mike Lane said:

I don't understand. What happens to old GPS units to render them
useless?

Nothing, they're not useless at all.

Quoted message said:

Is it like mobile phones, where apparently one can't be seen using
last year's model ;-)

No, it's not that. There are newer improved features. I upgraded from the
GPS12 to the 60CS and some of the improvements are as follows:

Mapping unit rather than non-mapping (far more useful)
10x trackpoint capacity (I often ran out with the GPS12)
Many more waypoint types (better for differentiating features)
Colour (very useful, not just pretty)
Altimeter (better than GPS altitude)
EGNOS (better accuracy)
Improved power consumption.

The last point makes a very big difference. The GPS12 took 4 AA batteries
and a set of rechargeables would typically last 8 hours. For a weekend away
I'd usually carry 12-16 batteries, and that's quite a bit of weight! The
60CS only uses 2 AA batteries and are supposed to last 32 hours IIRC (I
haven't actually timed them), so I can last a whole weekend on just 2,
although I always carry at least 2 spares. This makes a big difference to
the overall weight.

As for EGNOS, that's one of the the biggest differences between modern units
and older ones. It can give much better accuracy, but in practice, that's
really only useful for micronavigation. Aside from being able to mark
waypoints with slightly better accuracy, I can't honestly say that it makes
much difference in actual use.

Many of the extra features are important to me because I get a lot of use
out of them (like the many different coloured waypoint icons and the large
number of trackpoints) but a lot of people don't use these things and prefer
a minimalist philosophy of carry a small basic unit that just gives them a
grid ref.

For that purpose, the GPS12 is just as useful as any modern unit. However,
you can now get much smaller and lighter units to perform the same
functions, so why carry a brick and a dozen batteries when you can get a
tiny unit that slips into a pocket and runs off a couple of AAAs?

But for a single day walk, the GPS12 is just as useful as it ever was. If I
didn't have a 60CS now I'd still be happy to use it.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/weblog/
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/weblog/pic-of-the-day/henrhyd-falls/