Since i got my PM i rarely ride group rides. the reason why is i find them to be a waste of time. i can't bring my self to ride under 200 watts. with that said, if i group ride at 200 watts I'm doing all the pulling which is OK with me because at least I'm working L2 L3. the bad thing though is riders get dropped and i usually just end up off by my self feeling like a show off. so that is why i rarely do them. There is one group ride in town where the pros and the strongest riders go but it starts to early and is to far of drive. it is very fun though and is really a race for a hill sprint, this is a good ride for peaking fitness. i just started doing a group ride with more riders 70 plus that is kool, at least they try and chase you down and simulate a race.
Cyclist ride to easy for most part, as i did before i got my PM. i rode endurance rides probably around 150 watts!!!! so much wasted saddle time 🙁
What have been your experiences with group rides since you been training with power?
Since i got my PM i rarely ride group rides. the reason why is i find them to be a waste of time. i can't bring my self to ride under 200 watts. with that said, if i group ride at 200 watts I'm doing all the pulling which is OK with me because at least I'm working L2 L3. the bad thing though is riders get dropped and i usually just end up off by my self feeling like a show off. so that is why i rarely do them. There is one group ride in town where the pros and the strongest riders go but it starts to early and is to far of drive. it is very fun though and is really a race for a hill sprint, this is a good ride for peaking fitness. i just started doing a group ride with more riders 70 plus that is kool, at least they try and chase you down and simulate a race.
Cyclist ride to easy for most part, as i did before i got my PM. i rode endurance rides probably around 150 watts!!!! so much wasted saddle time 🙁
What have been your experiences with group rides since you been training with power?
I have notice the inconsistent speeds, they either go to hard for a short time, then go slow.......then someone attacks, everybody surges, then its back down to 100watts. I train by myself also and only ride with a group on Saturday, I usually let the attacks go and just ride steady, let them hammer up the hill, I just ride it as a L4 or L5 effort within my own limits. It takes some self discipline cause its much more fun (ego boost) to cut up with everyone, when I feel the need I might do it 1 or 2 times usually towards the end of the ride, most of those hammers early on get dropped pretty easy.
I don't think group rides are good for training, unless they're very hard and used as a substitue for racing. Actually, I don't really like those either - they can be very dangerous and tend to give cyclists a bad name with drivers and police. When I do group rides, it's for social reasons - just to hang with my team in the off season or chat with the geezers who ride from bakery to bakery. Come to think of it, group rides can be good for training - find a slow one and it forces you to actually do a recovery ride. 😉
This definitely belongs on the list of the "Top 10 Revelations of a New PM User." As in, "Geez, group rides aren't very good workouts." I think it comes right after #1, "Geez, how do you hold a constant power?" Maybe I'll start a list.
Anyway, it is tough to get any good high-intensity work on a group ride. Here are a few tricks: (1) be the ride leader and post a hilly route, (2) go to the front and pull for at least 5 mins and (3) when you're not in front, draft in an offset position so you're effectively not drafting. Or, recruit a group for a faster group ride.
Dont you guys have club races? Around albury we have races every weekend where all the racing/ competitive folk race for $40 or sumthing silly like that. Its teh same intensity as a real race if the good riders rock up. We also have those midweek hammer fests on tuesday and thursday. Basically its 20-30km's as hard as you can go (45-55km/h) kind of like a team time trial with attacks and a sprint finish. Besides that I would agree no group ride really gets me going, to many old duffers in the way causing crashes...Thats why I ride on my own a lot.
You dont need a Pm to realize a ride is easy...I avg under 65% HR for a 100km group ride we do around here. Now I just ride on my own, get home and check my avg HR, usually its 155-165/205max hr with a max hr of 195 or something like that. I ride a solid tempo on the flats, hammer the headwinds and uphills and sprint when I feel like it. Much better endurance workout and a lot closer to race pace/ intensity. During the week I do more specialized intensity workouts once again on my own or with another "racing" cyclist. To me there are two types of cyclists, Those who love bikes and those who love racing/ training/ winning. I belong to the racing group, simply cruising around [censored] me to tears.
Actually, I didn't realize what a lousy workout I was getting on group rides. You go hard frequently, it's just not sustained. Before riding with a PM, I would say that I overestimated the adaptation benefit of group rides.
Actually, I didn't realize what a lousy workout I was getting on group rides. You go hard frequently, it's just not sustained. Before riding with a PM, I would say that I overestimated the adaptation benefit of group rides.
The power meter ain't suggesting this is a good ride but the gossip meter usually goes off the scale! Bit like eating McDonalds - you do it every so often to remind yourself not to do it too often!🙂
There is one group ride in town where the pros and the strongest riders go but it starts to early and is to far of drive. it is very fun though and is really a race for a hill sprint, this is a good ride for peaking fitness.
I'm assuming you are talking about the Shootout. If not, ignore the rest of this... The GABA El Tour training rides have started back up on Sunday mornings. There is typically a pretty fast group in the front of those that can give a good workout - although not as consistantly strong from week-to-week like the Shootout or the Tuesday morning FWB ride. But the GABA rides do have versions that leave from both the East and West sides of town, so maybe one of them is closer to your home. Still not the same as a hard solo workout, but is a nice change of pace (so to speak).
Actually, I didn't realize what a lousy workout I was getting on group rides. You go hard frequently, it's just not sustained. Before riding with a PM, I would say that I overestimated the adaptation benefit of group rides.
I'm assuming you are talking about the Shootout. If not, ignore the rest of this... The GABA El Tour training rides have started back up on Sunday mornings. There is typically a pretty fast group in the front of those that can give a good workout - although not as consistantly strong from week-to-week like the Shootout or the Tuesday morning FWB ride. But the GABA rides do have versions that leave from both the East and West sides of town, so maybe one of them is closer to your home. Still not the same as a hard solo workout, but is a nice change of pace (so to speak).
Yea i was talking about the Shootout. i steer clear of Gaba rides because there are very slow riders in that. perhaps the El tour rides will be better, ill ck them out.
What have been your experiences with group rides since you been training with power?
About the same as you mention. Find a ride where there is no speed limit, go to the front when you want to work, and grab the wheel of anyone who comes around you.
I tend to do intensity by myself, and use the group rides for the longer, easier rides. Another option is to ride hard to the ride, do the group ride, then ride hard on the way home.
Actually, I'm blessed with a great group of guys for my group ride. It's not so much a group as 3-6 guys. A couple of us are strong such that we can do a 3-5 minute VO2 pull fall back in, watch the others do 30-60 second pulls, and get back to the front with equivalent rest of a solo workout. I'm always getting 90+ minutes of Z3 and above on those rides over 2.5 hours. Truth be told, I've yet to be in a race that matched the NP and TSS of my usual Saturday ride.
Yea i was talking about the Shootout. i steer clear of Gaba rides because there are very slow riders in that. perhaps the El tour rides will be better, ill ck them out.
Don't get me wrong, there are a ton of slow riders on these rides too. But in the few of them I've done it has split up pretty quick and there is no regrouping so after the first few miles you won't see the slow riders again. I did the West side ride a few times last year and each time the front group averaged 22mph for the total ride (65-75 miles) with some decent climbing. YMMV.
I know what you mean, but there are ways to make things better.
My club (mostly tourists) has about a 35 mile ride that start about 18 miles from my house. Me and a bud ride there and back from my place and spend lots of time at the front resulting in:
I ride with my team and a few other strong riders (~10) and it is without a doubt one of the best sessions for me every week. We always ride hard and always climb every hill as hard as we can, there are also sprints etc and plenty of tough to hang in flat work. I usually end up raising my MMP for most durations as I get fitter and would struggle to work that hard and get that much quality in for 3.5 hours on my own (in fact it would be impossible)
It's all about having the right ride companions and a clearly understood ride goal.
Actually, one of the first things I did with my Pm was to take it out to the local group ride. I was surprised by how good the #'s did turn out. It's a sort of "weeknight worlds" ride so I just sat on the front for almost the entire ride...pushing the dowhills especially hard. But, if you sit in at all, forget about it....especially if it's downhill. I typically combine the group ride with a ride beforehand to get to around 3hrs. If I'm fresh, I just do intervals on the way to the ride and it turns into a nice little workout.
Also, most of my weekend group rides are with small groups and we spend a large chunk of the time rotating. During these portions pnorm stays around threshold the whole time. Very good workout. Also, these rides usually have a fair bit of climbing.
I know what you mean, but there are ways to make things better.
My club (mostly tourists) has about a 35 mile ride that start about 18 miles from my house. Me and a bud ride there and back from my place and spend lots of time at the front resulting in:
That's pretty decent for a group ride of that duration.
3 1/2 hour ride with warm up and cooldown and your IF is .908? It would seem you are underestimating your FTP, at least from my perspective.
Strange that many of you want to go to a group ride to get a steady effort in as opposed to high intensity bursts. I find the intensity I get in during a group ride can not be matched when I'm by myself unless I'm extraordinarily inspired that day. For me, group rides are primarily a way of flogging myself and repeatedly attacking.
3 1/2 hour ride with warm up and cooldown and your IF is .908? It would seem you are underestimating your FTP, at least from my perspective.
Strange that many of you want to go to a group ride to get a steady effort in as opposed to high intensity bursts. I find the intensity I get in during a group ride can not be matched when I'm by myself unless I'm extraordinarily inspired that day. For me, group rides are primarily a way of flogging myself and repeatedly attacking.
I'd say it all depends on where you live. For me, elevation change is 1 foot/mile, though a couple of overpasses in the area may give you a 25 foot climb here and there. It's hard to boost VI much in the flats. E.g.,
Labor Day "group ride" (well, 4 guys) full ride 3:32:00 IF 0.807 NP 232 AP 191 "when we were serious" 2:30:00 IF 0.876 NP 251 AP 228
Contrast that with a Masters 35+ open race the following weekend 2:35:00 IF 0.806 NP 231 AP 167
Difference was the race was on a course 80 miles from home with constant rollers and the P12s in the field love to come to a crawl at the base and interval up the hill. Boosts the VI beyond belief compared to my flat land rides.
Strange that many of you want to go to a group ride to get a steady effort in as opposed to high intensity bursts. I find the intensity I get in during a group ride can not be matched when I'm by myself unless I'm extraordinarily inspired that day. For me, group rides are primarily a way of flogging myself and repeatedly attacking.
After an attack I presume you'd try to 'stick it' for as long as possible, which puts you back in steady effort mode. From a workout perspective, I don't see much difference in attacking and sticking it (off the front), vs just pulling the group (on the front). If the group has the horses to chase down attacks, then they probably don't wait for people either. I have no problem getting plenty of work on those kinds of rides.
