Hamilton verdict.

Can he ride for a ProTour team next year or did his offence occur when the Ethical Charter was in place?

GuyStevens said:

Can he ride for a ProTour team next year or did his offence occur when the Ethical Charter was in place?

I found this:

Quoted post said:

The 19 Pro Tour teams agreed about an ethical charter for the Pro Tour.

"A rider will be suspended by its team after the first positive doping control and that he will be fired when he is finally guilty for the use of "forbidden" products".

A rider is not allowed to ride for a Pro Tour team in the following 4 years.

Eldrack said:

cyclingnews.comnews.phpOpen ↗

Well, he is officially guilty. However he could be back next season as his ban ends at the end of this year.

To all of those who would try to argue against this I would say this: The arguements for both sides have been looked over and decided upon by much more intelligent (and unbiased) people than we will ever be and it has been decided that Hamilton is guilty, this is the highest level of proof you will ever get on a case like this so accept the verdict.

Speak for your own level of intelligence.
This decision and the whole process is flawed, just as Bettini says in cyclingnews.com interview about Heras.

FREE TYLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bobke said:

Speak for your own level of intelligence.
This decision and the whole process is flawed, just as Bettini says in cyclingnews.com interview about Heras.

FREE TYLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#

The arbitrators who presided over this case will have spent many hours deliberating over a group of evidence much larger than any single poster on these boards, more even than all the posters on this board have access too combined. From this group of evidence the arbitrators will have made an educated and impartial decision as to about Hamiltons guilt. If you are to challenge this arbitrators verdict you would have to have access to information outside that from which the arbitrators made his decision. The arbitrators are impartial in this matter, you are clearly not. Another thing to mention would be that the arbitrators will have spent years in training as to how to apply law which they will have done in this case, unless you yourself have a similar level of training with a level of evidence available to you which is equal to that of the arbitrators in this case you cannot argue against the decision with any level of validity unless you can present evidence such that the arbitrators decision can be held to be false.

The Heras case has yet to go to appeal, however if the appeal verdict is guilty, then again we must accept it. Do you not think that the arbitrators in his case too will have doubts about the validity of the tests involved, they will try the strengt of these tests and come to a verdict based on this as well as contributions from a large body of evidence.

It is of course possible they could reach the wrong verdict, however this is the most precise way of judging the innocence or guilt of a rider in such a postition, what percentage of cases are decided upon in the wrong sense we will not know, however it is probably best to take the results as they stand as there is ample room for an innocent rider to prove their innocence through the due process of law.

I say the guy sat the required amount of time, let him back in. I don't like the way he comported himself -- I wouldn't have done as he did -- but the rules are the rules.

We'll see Tyler in '07, wonder if he will go with a domestic team that has a European presence like Navigators? Or a Ceramica or Barloworld level team?

It'll be interesting to see what he can do.

Eldrack said:

#

The arbitrators who presided over this case will have spent many hours deliberating over a group of evidence much larger than any single poster on these boards, more even than all the posters on this board have access too combined. From this group of evidence the arbitrators will have made an educated and impartial decision as to about Hamiltons guilt. If you are to challenge this arbitrators verdict you would have to have access to information outside that from which the arbitrators made his decision. The arbitrators are impartial in this matter, you are clearly not. Another thing to mention would be that the arbitrators will have spent years in training as to how to apply law which they will have done in this case, unless you yourself have a similar level of training with a level of evidence available to you which is equal to that of the arbitrators in this case you cannot argue against the decision with any level of validity unless you can present evidence such that the arbitrators decision can be held to be false.

The Heras case has yet to go to appeal, however if the appeal verdict is guilty, then again we must accept it. Do you not think that the arbitrators in his case too will have doubts about the validity of the tests involved, they will try the strengt of these tests and come to a verdict based on this as well as contributions from a large body of evidence.

It is of course possible they could reach the wrong verdict, however this is the most precise way of judging the innocence or guilt of a rider in such a postition, what percentage of cases are decided upon in the wrong sense we will not know, however it is probably best to take the results as they stand as there is ample room for an innocent rider to prove their innocence through the due process of law.

If you are so sure. please tell us the arbitors names. their background and how they were chosen.
How do you know how impartial they are?
Or whose paying them?
or to whom they owe favors etc etc etc

I dont know anything about CAS, who runs it, who funds it or anything else.
Do you?
If so please tell us.

If not, then stop bending over for them and defending them llike you know something you dont.
Give it up or shut up.

[font=Verdana]Hamilton[/font][font=Verdana] was the person who took the appeal to CAS. If for any reason he thought the legitimacy or that the expertise of the CAS arbitration committee was flawed then he would not have taken his appeal to them. [/font][font=Verdana]Hamilton[/font][font=Verdana] was also paying CAS to hear his appeal. Therefore if the point of bias is being raised then it would be to [/font][font=Verdana]Hamilton[/font][font=Verdana].

[font=Verdana]CAS is an institution independent of any sports organization which provides for services in order to facilitate the settlement of sports-related disputes through arbitration or mediation by means of procedural rules adapted to the specific needs of the sports world.

[/font][/font][font=Verdana]In addition Hamilton himself had chosen one of the three arbitrators that were used to precede over the appeal (each side choosing one each and third by the of the chosen panellists). In addtion the arbitrators must be independent, that is to say have no particular connection with any of the parties, and must not have played any role in the case in question. If for any reason Hamilton thought the arbitrators were not inderpendent then he would not have chosen them or taken his appeal to CAS. By virtual of the fact that [/font][font=Verdana]Hamilton[/font][font=Verdana] instigated the appeal to CAS means he agrees to the values they stand by. In fact each side has to sign the charter before the case begins.

[/font]The case notes from the trial are very interesting and the fact Hamilton himself refused to be DNA tested which would have proven his claim of ‘chimerism’ (vanishing twin). It appears Hamilton tried of lot of angles to prove that the test was flawed or that the test was in fact correct but he had a medical condition to raise a positive but none of these he back up with facts. This is in stark contrast to the USADA who had an assortment of historic medical data and test data which proved the legitimacy of the testing. (velonews.comHamilton.pdfOpen ↗)

If the test was flawed then why haven’t we seen more false positives since ?

The three-member panel, composed of two Americans and an Australian, noted that testimony from expert witnesses, including flow cytometry specialist, Dr. Bruce Davis of the Maine Medical Center Research Institute, who is also the Chairman of the Clinical and Laboratory Standards Institute Area Committee in Hematology. Davis told the panel that "without any equivocation . . . the blood sample from Tyler Hamilton on September 11, 2004 contained a mixed population . . . indicat[ing] a previous homologous blood transfusion."

The panel rejected Hamilton's explanations for the positive test result including the disappearing twin, noting that Hamilton had declined to undergo DNA testing that would have proven his claim of chimerism.

"During the course of the hearing, DNA testing was carried out by Dr. Busch, which indicated that (Hamilton) was not a chimera... while (Hamilton) submitted a reply concerning this testing (he) did not participate in testing, as he was invited to do," the panel's decision noted.

The panel said that while Hamilton and his legal team had raised "general criticisms" of the methods employed, the complaints were "not backed up by facts."

"The Panel considered each of the excuses and found each to be completely without merit," Terry Madden, CEO of USADA, said in a press release issued Saturday. "It is sad that Mr. Hamilton resorted to conspiracy theories rather than just accept the consequences of his doping."

Madden added, "the development and implementation of this test and the confirmation of its validity would not have been possible without the dedication and efforts of the scientific community and the world anti-doping movement."

[font=Verdana]What is the Court of Arbitration for Sport ? - tas-cas.orgdefault.htmOpen ↗
[/font]
[font=Verdana]The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) is an institution independent of any sports organization which provides for services in order to facilitate the settlement of sports-related disputes through arbitration or mediation by means of procedural rules adapted to the specific needs of the sports world. The CAS was created in 1984 and is placed under the administrative and financial authority of the International Council of Arbitration for Sport (ICAS). The CAS has nearly 300 arbitrators from 87 countries, chosen for their specialist knowledge of arbitration and sports law. Around 200 cases are registered by the CAS every year.

[/font][font=Verdana]What is the function of the CAS ?

[/font][font=Verdana]The CAS has the task of resolving legal disputes in the field of sport through arbitration. It does this pronouncing arbitral awards that have the same enforceability as judgements of ordinary courts. It can also help parties solve their disputes on an amicable basis through mediation, when this procedure is allowed. In addition, the CAS gives advisory opinions concerning legal questions related to sport. Lastly, the CAS sets up non-permanent tribunals, which it does for the Olympic Games, the Commonwealth Games or other similar major events. To take into account the circumstances of such events, special procedureal rules are established on each occasion.

[/font][font=Verdana]What kinds of dispute can be submitted to the CAS ?

[/font][font=Verdana]Any disputes directly or indirectly linked to sport may be submitted to the CAS. These may be disputes of a commercial nature (e.g. a sponsorship contract), or of a disciplinary nature following a decision by a sports organisation (e.g. a doping case).

[/font][font=Verdana]How are the arbitrators chosen ?

[/font][font=Verdana]Generally speaking, the arbitration is submitted to a panel of three arbitrators. Under the ordinary procedure, each party chooses one arbitrator from the CAS list, then the two designated arbitrators agree on who will be the president of the panel. Failing such agreement, the President of the Ordinary Arbitration Division makes this selection instead of the two arbitrators. Under the appeals procedure, each party chooses an arbitrator, and the president of the panel is selected by the President of the Appeals Arbitration Division. If the parties agree, or if the CAS deems this appropriate, a sole arbitrator may be appointed, depending on the nature and importance of the case. The arbitrators must be independent, that is to say have no particular connection with any of the parties, and must not have played any role in the case in question.[/font]

bobke said:

If you are so sure. please tell us the arbitors names. their background and how they were chosen.
How do you know how impartial they are?
Or whose paying them?
or to whom they owe favors etc etc etc

I dont know anything about CAS, who runs it, who funds it or anything else.
Do you?
If so please tell us.

If not, then stop bending over for them and defending them llike you know something you dont.
Give it up or shut up.

It seems that as Hamiltons ban started before the ethical charter came in to force he will be able to ride for a pro-tour team starting at this years world championships.

[quote="velonews"]
[font=Verdana]That means that Hamilton will be eligible to compete again later this year. Strict anti-doping provisions in the charter of the new UCI ProTour require that a rider be banned from participating at that top level of the sport for a period twice that of any suspension handed out by a rider's national federation.[/font]

[font=Verdana]Under the original suspension, Hamilton would not have been eligible to ride for a ProTour team until April of 2008. Now that the suspension date has been shifted, he might be eligible to ride at that level after September 22 of this year, coincidentally just two days before the start of this year's world road race championship.[/quote][/font]

As far as I'm concerned this case is closed. Hamilton is guilty and he should just accept it and move on with his life. The way he's been going about it, with his conspiracy theories, has been pathetic. Accept the verdict Tyler, you did the crime now do the time.

Eldrack said:

It seems that as Hamiltons ban started before the ethical charter came in to force he will be able to ride for a pro-tour team starting at this years world championships.

[/size][/font]

Yes i think so too, but who wants to give him a contract??? Well Quickstep won't have a problem with that...

I just read CAS's award in details, some of the history behind the affair kind makes me wonder if what's wrong with this dude:

I quote sections 37 to 39 of the award text:

Quoted post said:

37. On 29 April 2004, the Appellant had a UCI health test along with other
members of the Phonak team and the readings were high although the Phonak
team claimed the readings were higher than the team’s own blood
measurements. This sample and another taken on 8 June 2004 were
subsequently tested for a homologous blood transfusion using flow cytometry.
38. As a result of these test results, UCI held several meetings with the Appellant
and representatives from the Phonak team. During the presentations at these
meetings, Dr Zorzoli of the UCI warned that a test on red blood cell antigens
was in the process of being validated as an anti-doping test to detect an
homologous blood transfusion. On 10 June 2004, UCI sent a warning letter to
the Appellant in which he was advised that “the blood checks that took place during the Tour de Romandie 2004…showed an abnormal profile” (as
translated) and that the blood values showed “strong signs of possible
manipulation”. The letter warned the Appellant that he would be “closely
monitored” in 2004.
39. Some of the blood samples taken for the UCI health tests during this period
were tested using flow cytometry and the results suggested the presence of
mixed red blood cell populations. At a meeting on 14 June 2004, Dr Zorzoli
presented to the Appellant and the team manager the results which were said to
show mixed populations and again said that they would be watching the
Appellant. At this stage a final decision on the adoption and implementation of
the HBT test had not been made by UCI, WADA or the IOC.

Come on, I mean the man was warned more that two times in no uncertain terms: we got a test coming, we've tried it on you..and it shows your messing around with your blood...we're watching your ass! [img]cyclingforums.combiggrin.gifOpen ↗[/img]

I would have switched to micro-EPO doping right away and been back in the safe-zone [img]cyclingforums.comwink.gifOpen ↗[/img] . Well it's all history now!

The completed award text from CAS can be found at:
tas-cas.orgHamilton.pdfOpen ↗. Quite an interesting read IMO

toa said:

I just read CAS's award in details, some of the history behind the affair kind makes me wonder if what's wrong with this dude:

I quote sections 37 to 39 of the award text:

Come on, I mean the man was warned more that two times in no uncertain terms: we got a test coming, we've tried it on you..and it shows your messing around with your blood...we're watching your ass! [img]cyclingforums.combiggrin.gifOpen ↗[/img]

I would have switched to micro-EPO doping right away and been back in the safe-zone [img]cyclingforums.comwink.gifOpen ↗[/img] . Well it's all history now!

The completed award text from CAS can be found at:
tas-cas.orgHamilton.pdfOpen ↗. Quite an interesting read IMO

Yes, I think you've hit the nail on the head.
He was warned, his team was warned etc etc
Only two possibilities:
1. Incredibly stupid
2. Innocent

Who knows?
BTW, if he is guilty it means lots of other folks are around who know, blood doping is not done in private, it takes skill and knowledge to store and transfuse blood so...given the chance to confess, go public , get paid for a story, the whole L'Equipe thing you'd think that others would confess or go public.
Where are all the co-conspirators who helped Tyler dope?

I mean also BTW who in God's name would take someone else's blood for any reason these days. Mot people with elective surgery blood bank their own a few months in advance on doctors advice.

hombredesubaru said:

Yes, I think you've hit the nail on the head.
He was warned, his team was warned etc etc
Only two possibilities:
1. Incredibly stupid
2. Innocent

Who knows?
BTW, if he is guilty it means lots of other folks are around who know, blood doping is not done in private, it takes skill and knowledge to store and transfuse blood so...given the chance to confess, go public , get paid for a story, the whole L'Equipe thing you'd think that others would confess or go public.
Where are all the co-conspirators who helped Tyler dope?

I mean also BTW who in God's name would take someone else's blood for any reason these days. Mot people with elective surgery blood bank their own a few months in advance on doctors advice.

He's guilty and the case is shut.

As I have said about Heras, I hope that maybe Hamilton will come to terms with his cheating and perhaps decide to tell us how he cheated and for how long he cheated.

cyclingheroes said:

Yes i think so too, but who wants to give him a contract???

Do you think teams would come over all moralistic regarding the matter? No.
If the rules allow him to ride in September then there will be plenty of teams wanting him on their roster for 2007 and they will happily gloss over his infraction.

Who was his trainer/doctor? Checcini......

hombredesubaru said:

Yes, I think you've hit the nail on the head.
He was warned, his team was warned etc etc
Only two possibilities:
1. Incredibly stupid
2. Innocent

Who knows?
BTW, if he is guilty it means lots of other folks are around who know, blood doping is not done in private, it takes skill and knowledge to store and transfuse blood so...given the chance to confess, go public , get paid for a story, the whole L'Equipe thing you'd think that others would confess or go public.
Where are all the co-conspirators who helped Tyler dope?

I mean also BTW who in God's name would take someone else's blood for any reason these days. Mot people with elective surgery blood bank their own a few months in advance on doctors advice.

GuyStevens said:

Do you think teams would come over all moralistic regarding the matter? No.
If the rules allow him to ride in September then there will be plenty of teams wanting him on their roster for 2007 and they will happily gloss over his infraction.

That's correct (moralistic) but in September he didn't race for 2 years and is 35 years old (or even 36?)..... I think he will get a contract but i don't think he will ride for a protour team...

He could ride for a Continental level team that was seeking a wildcard to the Tour or Giro. He has to race and win again or no one will ever believe that all the wins on his palmares aren't the result of dope. I think he maintained his innocence because he believed that you are not a cheat if all your competitors are also cheating. If Virenque was allowed to ride again after the Festina affair then Hamilton should get his second chance too.

Virenque was lucky enough to get nailed when penalties weren't so stiff. I believe Alex Zulle is another one who got off easy when doping penalties were much less severe. I believe it was a six month suspension in '98...

In any case, it's hard to have sympathy for Hamilton. He was specifically warned, probably more than most, that trouble was on the way. If he was genuinely clean, then he should have started raising questions about the accuracy of the test after the warning, and as far as I can tell from the CAS documents, he didn't.

Nor did he put up a credible defence after he was accused. Some smoke and mirrors, but nothing that could directly show how his specific case could be a false positive. Subsequent blood tests were negative, which didn't help him, either. Plus Santi Perez getting caught for the same offence...

However, we shoudn't be naive about the forces in action these days. There are millions of dollars/pounds/euros riding on team assignments and GC positions, especially when one considers product endorsements. Ample motivation to dope, or to arrange for a false accusation.

Kind of makes one yearn for the simplicity of the club crit, doesn't it?

JohnO said:

Virenque was lucky enough to get nailed when penalties weren't so stiff. I believe Alex Zulle is another one who got off easy when doping penalties were much less severe. I believe it was a six month suspension in '98...

In any case, it's hard to have sympathy for Hamilton. He was specifically warned, probably more than most, that trouble was on the way. If he was genuinely clean, then he should have started raising questions about the accuracy of the test after the warning, and as far as I can tell from the CAS documents, he didn't.

Nor did he put up a credible defence after he was accused. Some smoke and mirrors, but nothing that could directly show how his specific case could be a false positive. Subsequent blood tests were negative, which didn't help him, either. Plus Santi Perez getting caught for the same offence...

However, we shoudn't be naive about the forces in action these days. There are millions of dollars/pounds/euros riding on team assignments and GC positions, especially when one considers product endorsements. Ample motivation to dope, or to arrange for a false accusation.

Kind of makes one yearn for the simplicity of the club crit, doesn't it?

Yes, if the almost paraplegic Michelle Kwan gets a free pass to show up in Torino, walk the opening ceremonies--which caused her enough pain that she should have dropped out them, and then misses three jumps in sequence in front of the world in practice, robbing the teenage Emily Hughes of the excitement that a kid could feel representing the US before she like Kwan becomes a corporate shill for Wheaties/stars-on-ice/Visa/whoknows what else---all for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ the power of her press appeal, sponshorship with Visa etc etc

and this is the pristeen idealized pure Olympics----

which last time I checked was the most corrupt scandal driven organization short of the Mafia and the Bush administration...then who knows what goes on behind the scenes with Tyler, Phonak, Lance USPS, Disco, L'Equipe, [censored] Pound, WADA, UCI etc etc.
They all seem like a bunch of @ssclownd and dirtbags if you ask me.

Mat they all go hunting with Dich Cheney in the near future.
Give me a clean sport like WWF wrestling, boxing, or American baseball and Pete Rose!!!!!!!!

and BTW:

FREE TUGBOAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!