Hand held GPS or PDA Setup ????

Hi I have Vista and find it brilliant for marking waymarks
and routes and goto etc. (Still prefer to use my map and
compass though) A lot depends on why you want a GPS, is it
because it is for show, confirmation of location, map
skills? The battery life in the Vista was a problem at first
especially in the cold but with modern NiHd batteries at
2000ma that helps a lot. The Vista does soak up batteries.
The summit is better. I also use a PDA with memory map and a
bluetooth GPS but the battery life in my IPAQ can only last
about 3 hours and the batteries need to be recharged again.
If you loose a GPS, then that is one item gone. If you loose
a PDA then along with the databases, spreadsheets, diary
etc, that is a bit more of a problem. Cheers Ken

"Mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I do a lot of walking and trekking in the UK and have been
considering getting either a GPS device such as the etrex
Vista or a handheld PDA

setup.

Quoted message said:

I've been trying out memory map and like the idea of
being able to

integrate

Quoted message said:

routes etc from memory map onto a GPS or a PDA device. I
was just

wondering

Quoted message said:

if anyone could point me towards any reviews or give me
some guidance on what would be best.

Cheers

Mark

Mark' [email protected] said:

Hi,

I do a lot of walking and trekking in the UK and have been
considering getting either a GPS device such as the etrex
Vista or a handheld PDA setup. I've been trying out memory
map and like the idea of being able to integrate routes etc
from memory map onto a GPS or a PDA device. I was just
wondering if anyone could point me towards any reviews or
give me some guidance on what would be best.

Cheers

Mark

Mark, I was in a similar position to you knowing little
about gps etc. However, I wanted one for a number of reasons
such as being able to upload walks from a map, measure
distances, save walks etc. In my case it was also essential
to be able measure altitude as I walk a lot in the
Himalayas.

I read a number of reviews and newsgroup posting and finally
settled on the Geko 301 - this is similar to the 201 but
with an altimetre/barometer as well. Just a simple mono
screen and no in built maps but it works fine.

I also bought the Anquet maps for the south of england. I
have to say that the two work very well and easily. I know
some people say Ozimap is better but I find Anquet simple
to use - I can store and draw my walks on the PC and
upload them whenever I want (I got the cable off Ebay for
abot 9 pounds).

I just plot my walks on the pc then upload them to the geko
and print out a map of the route and off I go. Inexpensive
and simple. The batteries on the 301 last about 9 hours or
so with the compass turned off; leaving the compass on all
the time eats batteries - but its not usually necessary when
you are walking. Just got back from a walk across the downs
in Wiltshire; sometimes the path was not obvious but the
Geko easily got us back on the right track.

Downside? It does lose the signal in forests but I suspect
they all do
- so far it seems to be remarkably accurate. If you live
anywhere near Dorset and want to give it a go give me a
shout. Likewise if you have a specific question just email
me removing the obvious from the email address.

If I were you I would be worried about the durability of a
PDA when it comes to hill walking. If you go for a
standalone GPS as I would the choice is mapping or non-
mapping. I went non-mapping, but apparently OS mapping on a
GPS is only months (?) and several hundred quid away.

That said my advice is get a Geko 301 and just use Memory
map on the PC.

Cheers

Lewis

A GPS will be far more rugged. I don`t see you being able to
wash the peat/mud/sheep s*** off a PDA in a mountain stream
quite like you can with a GPS. My Garmin GPS12 is built like
a tank, has a tough screen and is waterproof as well.

I guess it depends what you want it for. for car navigation,
a PDA with subtable software would probably win but give my
a GPS in the hills

Bitstring <40cdf4e3$0$2341$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-
reader02.plus.net>, from the wonderful person Lewis
<[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

If I were you I would be worried about the durability of a
PDA when it comes to hill walking. If you go for a
standalone GPS as I would the choice is mapping or non-
mapping. I went non-mapping, but apparently OS mapping on a
GPS is only months (?) and several hundred quid away.

That's what I thought, then I saw

magellangps.comviewRelease.Open ↗
asp?id=302

which may well influence both the make and model I buy. Not
that the price isn't outrageous .. and I have yet to see any
reviews that say that it works (but hey, it's the OS, how
wrong can the French have made
it. 8>.)

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and
indistinguishable from human typing.

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
wonderful person Chris Malcolm <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

Bitstring <40cdf4e3$0$2341$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-
reader02.plus.net>, from the wonderful person Lewis
<[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

If I were you I would be worried about the durability of
a PDA when it comes to hill walking. If you go for a
standalone GPS as I would the choice is mapping or non-
mapping. I went non-mapping, but apparently OS mapping on
a GPS is only months (?) and several hundred quid away.

Quoted message said:

That's what I thought, then I saw

Quoted message said:

magellangps.comviewRelease.aOpen ↗
sp?id=302

Quoted message said:

which may well influence both the make and model I buy.
Not that the price isn't outrageous .. and I have yet to
see any reviews that say that it works (but hey, it's the
OS, how wrong can the French have made
it. 8>.)

The important wuestion is how much detail have they omitted
that you want? I guess you want mountain bothies, tiny
streams, and footpaths. That's the kind of detail that
might well be omitted in "state of the art data
compression" :-)

Yes indeedy! I much prefer to know there is a stream in
front of me =before= I fall into it. And footpaths are sort
of helpful too .. avoids having the local farmers mow you
down (usually! 8>.)

Quoted message said:

The second point is that Garmin has known for some time
that Magellan were doing this. They've both been racing to
the market with this for years. Magellan have got there
first. Garmin won't be far behind, the pundits suggest a
few months. A useful opportunity for comparative choice.

It would be a shame to spend all that money on a GPS with
OS-derived mapping to discover that what you've bought is a
very nice accessory to the still essential much more
detailed traditional OS paper map.

Damn, since I want to buy a GPS 'sometime soon'. I do wish
these dipsticks would get their heads together and
understand the benefits of standards, so you could pick your
map data vendor independently of your GPS handset (and your
PC, and ..). I'm not a big fan of Garmin though, based
purely on the way they attempt to rip-you-off £26 for a 9
pin, 4 wire, PC connector cable. Not even gold plated.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and
indistinguishable from human typing.

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
wonderful person Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

Chris Malcolm said:

The important wuestion is how much detail have they
omitted that you want? I guess you want mountain bothies,
tiny streams, and footpaths. That's the kind of detail
that might well be omitted in "state of the art data
compression" :-)

Footpaths? Unlikely. What's the big deal with footpaths
anyway? Half the time they aren't shown correctly on the
paper maps anyway. Countless footpaths exist which
aren't shown on the maps and many of those which are no
longer exist or are horribly overgrown, or they don't
follow exactly the same path as shown on the map (as
revealed by GPS).

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Given the inherent inaccuracy of paths on maps, I choose
not to pay them too much heed. Thus a GPS map with no paths
would be no real problem to
me. Where paths would be a problem would be in farmland
and forestry, but on the open hill it's really not
much of an issue.

I tend to do a lot of walking near to home, and that's
forests and fields. When trampling through a plantation of
4' oak trees hidden in 5' thistles, or hacking through 8'
high raspberry canes woven together by <apparently
infinitely long> blackberry suckers (map references
available), it makes me feel much better to know I'm
vandalising on the footpath. In the latter case I actually
met the landowner (the stile takes you through his front
garden), who's only remark (seeing my OS map, clutched in
hand, and noting my somewhat-worse-for-wear non-kevlar
apparel) was 'Been a while since anyone's used =that=
footpath'. Yeah, too right. However the alternative required
either wings, or a mile long detour. 8>.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It would be a shame to spend all that money on a GPS with
OS-derived mapping to discover that what you've bought is
a very nice accessory to the still essential much more
detailed traditional OS paper map.

If I take the trouble to input a sufficient number of
waypoints into my GPS, even in an area that I've never
visited before, then I can walk all day without ever
needing to look at the map (the memory of which will still
be fresh in my mind after previous study and which will be
triggered by the carefully chosen waypoints). This I've
done on many occasions. Since this is true of a non-mapping
GPS, I hardly think that having a topographical GPS map at
my disposal is going to necessitate me reaching for the
paper map very often.

Of course I'd always bring a paper map. Not because I'd
need it, but partly to study complex detail if desired (as
opposed to necessary), and partly as a backup. Not that I
expect my GPS to run out of battery power, but they can be
dropped and broken, as some here will testify.

As an interesting aside, whilst walking with Chris Street
and friends in the Ystradfellte area a few days ago
encountered a couple of Americans who'd moved to England a
few years back. The female half of the partnership claimed
that the area was confusing to walk around because there
was "too much detail" on the map.

She needed to walk slower (age helps!), then she could
savour every field boundary, well, spinney, and scree patch
.. all clearly marked (albeit sometimes in not quite the
right place).

Quoted message said:

Evidently not used to the degree of detail and accuracy
that the OS provide. I can see a good argument for less
detail if the detail provided is of the "need to know"
variety, but I suspect that the kind of detail that they
needed to know (footpaths) would fall far short of the
kind of detail that I need to know about (contours and
cliffs).

Still, my point is that any GPS mapping detail would be
an improvent over what mine currently shows, and just
having contours, roads and forestry boundaries would be a
major help.

I agree, anything would help, but if I'm going to not carry
the paper maps around with me, then the footpaths are sort
of essential (round here). On top of the Clee hills, or the
Long Mynd, you're right, knowing where the 200' drops are is
probably equally, or even more, useful.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and
indistinguishable from human typing.

Thanks, it's really for confirmation of location.

I didn't know the batteries on PDAs were sucked dry so
quickly!

"Ken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi I have Vista and find it brilliant for marking waymarks
and routes and

goto

Quoted message said:

etc. (Still prefer to use my map and compass though) A lot
depends on why you want a GPS, is it because it is for
show, confirmation of location,

map

Quoted message said:

skills? The battery life in the Vista was a problem at
first especially in the

cold

Quoted message said:

but with modern NiHd batteries at 2000ma that helps a lot.
The Vista does soak up batteries. The summit is better. I
also use a PDA with memory map and a bluetooth GPS but the
battery life

in

Quoted message said:

my IPAQ can only last about 3 hours and the batteries need
to be recharged again. If you loose a GPS, then that is
one item gone. If you loose a PDA then along with the
databases, spreadsheets, diary etc, that is a bit more of
a problem. Cheers Ken

"Mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I do a lot of walking and trekking in the UK and have
been considering getting either a GPS device such as the
etrex Vista or a handheld PDA

setup.

Quoted message said:

I've been trying out memory map and like the idea of
being able to

integrate

Quoted message said:

routes etc from memory map onto a GPS or a PDA device. I
was just

wondering

Quoted message said:

if anyone could point me towards any reviews or give me
some guidance on what would be best.

Cheers

Mark

I don't want to replace using a map and compass, just a
backup confirmation sometimes of exactly where I am / route
to take. So a PDA setup would be nice but whether I'd be
just as well off with the map and a GPS I don't know. I've
asked in a few shops and no one's really been able to give
me a really good answer to assit me.

"John" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 12:14:07 +0100, "Mark"

[email protected] said:

Hi,

I do a lot of walking and trekking in the UK and have
been considering getting either a GPS device such as the
etrex Vista or a handheld PDA

setup.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've been trying out memory map and like the idea of
being able to

integrate

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

routes etc from memory map onto a GPS or a PDA device. I
was just

wondering

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

if anyone could point me towards any reviews or give me
some guidance on what would be best.

Cheers

Mark

Mark, I was in a similar position to you knowing little
about gps etc. However, I wanted one for a number of
reasons such as being able to upload walks from a map,
measure distances, save walks etc. In my case it was also
essential to be able measure altitude as I walk a lot in
the Himalayas.

I read a number of reviews and newsgroup posting and
finally settled on the Geko 301 - this is similar to the
201 but with an altimetre/barometer as well. Just a simple
mono screen and no in built maps but it works fine.

I also bought the Anquet maps for the south of england. I
have to say that the two work very well and easily. I know
some people say Ozimap is better but I find Anquet simple
to use - I can store and draw my walks on the PC and
upload them whenever I want (I got the cable off Ebay for
abot 9 pounds).

I just plot my walks on the pc then upload them to the
geko and print out a map of the route and off I go.
Inexpensive and simple. The batteries on the 301 last
about 9 hours or so with the compass turned off; leaving
the compass on all the time eats batteries - but its not
usually necessary when you are walking. Just got back from
a walk across the downs in Wiltshire; sometimes the path
was not obvious but the Geko easily got us back on the
right track.

Downside? It does lose the signal in forests but I suspect
they all do
- so far it seems to be remarkably accurate. If you live
anywhere near Dorset and want to give it a go give me a
shout. Likewise if you have a specific question just
email me removing the obvious from the email address.

Mark' [email protected] said:

I don't want to replace using a map and compass, just a
backup confirmation sometimes of exactly where I am / route
to take. So a PDA setup would be nice but whether I'd be
just as well off with the map and a GPS I don't know. I've
asked in a few shops and no one's really been able to give
me a really good answer to assit me.

I've got a Magellan SporTrak Pro and Meridian Color (neither
of which lose lock under trees!) which I have in the past
attached to a PDA (iPaq 3660). However its such a hassle -
the connection is not very sturdy and the PDA batteries
don't last that long and its just something else to set up
and have to look after - I don't bother anymore. Find it
just as effective to print a map of the route and relate
that to a real O/S map! . Mark Cavendish Cardiff, Wales

GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

Bitstring <40cdf4e3$0$2341$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-
reader02.plus.net>, from the wonderful person Lewis
<[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

If I were you I would be worried about the durability of a
PDA when it comes to hill walking. If you go for a
standalone GPS as I would the choice is mapping or non-
mapping. I went non-mapping, but apparently OS mapping on
a GPS is only months (?) and several hundred quid away.

Quoted message said:

That's what I thought, then I saw

Quoted message said:

magellangps.comviewRelease.aOpen ↗
sp?id=302

Quoted message said:

which may well influence both the make and model I buy. Not
that the price isn't outrageous .. and I have yet to see
any reviews that say that it works (but hey, it's the OS,
how wrong can the French have made
it. 8>.)

The important wuestion is how much detail have they omitted
that you want? I guess you want mountain bothies, tiny
streams, and footpaths. That's the kind of detail that might
well be omitted in "state of the art data compression" :-)

The second point is that Garmin has known for some time that
Magellan were doing this. They've both been racing to the
market with this for years. Magellan have got there first.
Garmin won't be far behind, the pundits suggest a few
months. A useful opportunity for comparative choice.

It would be a shame to spend all that money on a GPS with
OS-derived mapping to discover that what you've bought is a
very nice accessory to the still essential much more
detailed traditional OS paper map.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Chris Malcolm said:

The important wuestion is how much detail have they
omitted that you want? I guess you want mountain bothies,
tiny streams, and footpaths. That's the kind of detail
that might well be omitted in "state of the art data
compression" :-)

Footpaths? Unlikely. What's the big deal with footpaths
anyway? Half the time they aren't shown correctly on the
paper maps anyway. Countless footpaths exist which
aren't shown on the maps and many of those which are no
longer exist or are horribly overgrown, or they don't
follow exactly the same path as shown on the map (as
revealed by GPS).

Since wild walking essentially means "wandering wherever I
please" to me, the existence of a footpath or lack of is
somewhat irrelevant. If there's a footpath going in the same
direction as me, fine, I'll follow
it. If not, I'll just choose the path of least resistance,
preferably avoiding bogs and sticking to dry ground
with short grass or rocks.

The depiction (or not) of footpaths on the map is often an
inconvenience. If one is shown to exist then I may try to
follow it, only to be annoyed to find that it doesn't. It
would be less bother to choose my route via other methods.
Alternatively if an area shows no footpaths I may be happy
to come across one which happens to be heading my way.

My usual planning technique is to use contours to plan my
route, modified by the existence of rocks, streams and
bogs. I mainly try to avoid boggy ground (often implied by
streams if the contours are gentle) and to follow rocky
outcrops. If neither are indicated then I study the
contours to try to determine ridge lines and higher ground
which are less likely to be wet. The existence of a path is
convenient if it really does exist, but is not my main
criteria for route planning.

If you plan walks purely to follow paths then you'll
frequently find yourself wandering across wild land
wondering where the hell the path is, whilst at the same
time you'll be denying yourself access to areas which
actually have paths but which simply aren't marked. More to
the point, a lot of wild land is easily walkable whether it
has paths or not, so you really shouldn't limit yourself
unnecessarily.

Given the inherent inaccuracy of paths on maps, I choose not
to pay them too much heed. Thus a GPS map with no paths
would be no real problem to
iu. Where paths would be a problem would be in farmland
and forestry, but on the open hill it's really not
much of an issue.

Quoted message said:

It would be a shame to spend all that money on a GPS with
OS-derived mapping to discover that what you've bought is
a very nice accessory to the still essential much more
detailed traditional OS paper map.

If I take the trouble to input a sufficient number of
waypoints into my GPS, even in an area that I've never
visited before, then I can walk all day without ever
needing to look at the map (the memory of which will still
be fresh in my mind after previous study and which will be
triggered by the carefully chosen waypoints). This I've
done on many occasions. Since this is true of a non-mapping
GPS, I hardly think that having a topographical GPS map at
my disposal is going to necessitate me reaching for the
paper map very often.

Of course I'd always bring a paper map. Not because I'd need
it, but partly to study complex detail if desired (as
opposed to necessary), and partly as a backup. Not that I
expect my GPS to run out of battery power, but they can be
dropped and broken, as some here will testify.

As an interesting aside, whilst walking with Chris Street
and friends in the Ystradfellte area a few days ago
encountered a couple of Americans who'd moved to England a
few years back. The female half of the partnership claimed
that the area was confusing to walk around because there was
"too much detail" on the map. Evidently not used to the
degree of detail and accuracy that the OS provide. I can see
a good argument for less detail if the detail provided is of
the "need to know" variety, but I suspect that the kind of
detail that they needed to know (footpaths) would fall far
short of the kind of detail that I need to know about
(contours and cliffs).

Still, my point is that any GPS mapping detail would be
an improvent over what mine currently shows, and just
having contours, roads and forestry boundaries would be a
major help.

Paul
--
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, Mark
<news@?.co.uk.invalid> writes

Quoted message said:

I don't want to replace using a map and compass, just a
backup confirmation sometimes of exactly where I am / route
to take. So a PDA setup would be nice but whether I'd be
just as well off with the map and a GPS I don't know. I've
asked in a few shops and no one's really been able to give
me a really good answer to assit me.

If it is just confirmation backup of location you want, why
do you want a PDA set-up?

Surely the grid ref given by the GPS combined with
your obvious knowledge of maps would be sufficient and
a lot cheaper.
--
Bill Grey billboy.co.ukbillboy.co.ukOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, Mark
<news@?.co.uk.invalid> writes

Quoted message said:

true, but if i'm forking out for a GPS then would it be
worthwile spending a bit more for a PDA setup ....

I've never seen one, but I've been told that a PDA with
Memory Map map installed is excellent.
--
Bill Grey billboy.co.ukbillboy.co.ukOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Problem is price. The 76S is £305, the 60CS is £435, the
76CS is £480. At least those are the cheapest I've found so
far. The 76CS seems way too pricey and the 60CS is a bit
more than I'd like to pay, if I could find it a little bit
cheaper that might be the one I'd choose. Anyone know of
any better prices?

I have not used these folks but have seen people
recommending them:

sportextreme.comProduktliste.aspOpen ↗
egoriID=823%2F &Currency=GBP

£268, £361 and £399.

--

dscs.demon.co.ukdscs.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Chris Malcolm <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Mark' [email protected] said:

"W. D. Grey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Mark
<news@?.co.uk.invalid> writes
>I don't want to replace using a map and compass, just a
>backup

confirmation

Quoted message said:

>sometimes of exactly where I am / route to take. So a
>PDA setup would be nice but whether I'd be just as well
>off with the map and a GPS I don't know. I've asked in
>a few shops and no one's really been able to give me

a

Quoted message said:

>really good answer to assit me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If it is just confirmation backup of location you want,
why do you want a PDA set-up?

Surely the grid ref given by the GPS combined with your
obvious knowledge of maps would be sufficient and a lot
cheaper.

Quoted message said:

true, but if i'm forking out for a GPS then would it be
worthwile spending a bit more for a PDA setup ....

Just be careful you've costed out the "bit more". Some
folk get sucked in step by step, finding week by week how
much more they need to spend to justify what they've
already spent.

Better spend the extra money on a sophisticated GPS - Chris
will explain the features not mentioned in the manual. ;-)
And don't forget OziExplorer...
--
Gordon

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Problem is price. The 76S is £305, the 60CS is £435, the
76CS is £480. At least those are the cheapest I've found
so far. The 76CS seems way too pricey and the 60CS is a
bit more than I'd like to pay, if I could find it a little
bit cheaper that might be the one I'd choose. Anyone know
of any better prices?

I have not used these folks but have seen people
recommending them:

sportextreme.comProduktliste.aspOpen ↗
tegoriID=823%2F &Currency=GBP

£268, £361 and £399.

I paid £268.34 for a Vista and Metroguide USA + joining an
outdoor club offering discounts when I was in California.
:-)

Hardly more than I paid for the Summit + cable, and the
cable was included with the Vista.
--
Gordon

Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Gordon said:

Quoted message said:

£268, £361 and £399.

I paid £268.34 for a Vista and Metroguide USA + joining
an outdoor club offering discounts when I was in
California.
:-)

Not bad, but I want the European basemap.

I have a copy of UK Roads and Recreation, which covers all
the UK, the base map is relatively unimportant for me. It
was cool to follow our journeys with my daughter & family
when we were over there, without using a map. :-) At $99 I
got all US cities and a good deal in between.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hardly more than I paid for the Summit + cable, and the
cable was included with the Vista.

There's a cable with the new Garmins, but it's a USB cable!
The latest models have both a USB and serial port
interface. Apparently the old interface is required for a
power supply, such as from a cigarette lighter adapter.

Did I mention that the latest Garmins have autorouting?
Very handy for in car use, but the autorouting only works
with certain types of map CD so you have to buy the right
one (can't remember which offhand).

For car journeys I use UK R & R in Mapsource or Ozi, and
plot a track, rather than waypoints. Then I upload to the
Summit and follow the track, which is easy to see on the
Summit because it's 3 pixels wide, with the GPS mounted in a
mobile phone mount on the dash, almost in a HUD position.
--
Gordon

In article <[email hidden]>, RJ Webb
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I asked the inevitable questions: Any chance of photos
of Scotland, and Any chance of another software rip
off again..

I have the demo version of Memory Map and it so happens it
covers Swansea. The map screen is bang up to date.
--
Bill Grey billboy.co.ukbillboy.co.ukOpen ↗