Handlebar question

PrepressIT said:

If I have a Nishiki Century (1983) and want to replace the drop down handlebars with the upright "Raleigh-3-speed-style" handlebars, is that ok for riding posture?

Why do say "if"? Do you have such a bike and want to switch bars?

"If" yes, I think you would be better off with straight bars like on
modern hybrid bikes. You might want a taller stem too.

Quoted message said:

Also, could the hand brakes from the drop down bars be adapted for the upright bars?

No. Visit your local bike shop. They can easily set you up the way you
want.

Art Harris

Art Harris said:

PrepressIT said:

If I have a Nishiki Century (1983) and want to replace the drop down handlebars with the upright "Raleigh-3-speed-style" handlebars, is that ok for riding posture?

Why do say "if"? Do you have such a bike and want to switch bars?

"If" yes, I think you would be better off with straight bars like on
modern hybrid bikes. You might want a taller stem too.

Disagree, straight bars are the work of the devil himself. Curved or
"arc" bars ain't too bad. Three speed bars, or Nitto "North Road"
handlebars are excellent, especially flipped upside down and taped.

You'll need a new stem or a good shim, and new brake levers, which are
pretty inexpensive.

A preview of what it will look like:
http://www.nycbikes.com/item.php?item_id=499

Thanks for the excellent replies. It is the "north road" style of
handlebar I wanted to put on my bike. My Nishiki is in good
condition, I just think north road handlebars would give better
"touring" riding. Plus, I have never liked the hand brake arrangment,
even though they are the "compound" style where you can grab them
either on the curved or straight part of the drop down handlebars.

Bob R.

The North Road bars are great for tootlin', I used to commute with
them, but as I got sportier in my commuting habits I switched to
hacksaw shortened flat bars with barends (practical in urban riding,
not all that comfy)

I agree with Sheldon though, you might look into keeping your existing
bars and jacking them up. Then add modern brake levers that are very
comfy--you've been missing the "hood" position on your old levers. Add
some inline bar top levers and you've got a much more comfy and
efficient, but similar idea to what you've got already.

So one Nitto technomic or "periscopa" stem +

a modern lever:
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=&sku=15660&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=
or
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=&sku=12401&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

and some inline bar top levers:
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=104&subcategory=1194&brand=&sku=10888&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

The North Road bar can be a great solution too, just don't discount
drop bars till you've got them in a good position with nice levers.
BTW--I like to tape my North Road bars with cork instead of using
grips, gives you a couple extra hand positions in a pinch.

Good luck with whichever you choose. 😄

When it comes to adjusting the brake cables on the caliper (wheel) end,
what is the procedure regarding the cable if yours ends with two
knurled rings (one is the locking ring) at the end of the covered part
of the cable? I ask because there is bare cable that goes to a screw
on the end of the cable beyond that point. What is the functional
diffference in those two areas for adjusting brake cables? Thanks, Bob
R.

maxo said:

The North Road bars are great for tootlin', I used to commute with
them, but as I got sportier in my commuting habits I switched to
hacksaw shortened flat bars with barends (practical in urban riding,
not all that comfy)

I agree with Sheldon though, you might look into keeping your existing
bars and jacking them up. Then add modern brake levers that are very
comfy--you've been missing the "hood" position on your old levers. Add
some inline bar top levers and you've got a much more comfy and
efficient, but similar idea to what you've got already.

So one Nitto technomic or "periscopa" stem +

a modern lever:
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=&sku=15660&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=
or
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=&sku=12401&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

and some inline bar top levers:
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=104&subcategory=1194&brand=&sku=10888&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

The North Road bar can be a great solution too, just don't discount
drop bars till you've got them in a good position with nice levers.
BTW--I like to tape my North Road bars with cork instead of using
grips, gives you a couple extra hand positions in a pinch.

Good luck with whichever you choose. 😄

The knurled ring is for fine tuning.

Usually cables stretch during their life, so when you put in a new
cable, screw the adjuster in, and unscrew it to effectively compensate
for cable stretch from time to time.

someone said:

The knurled ring is for fine tuning.

Quoted message said:

Usually cables stretch during their life, so when you put in a new
cable, screw the adjuster in, and unscrew it to effectively
compensate for cable stretch from time to time.

Oh! This sounds like the old, "my chain stretched when I climbed a
steep hill" story. Please tell me what you believe stretches or
shrinks with a brake or shift cable. Is it the strands plastically
changing length, the steel coil of the housing squashing? Have you
seen control cables that were stressed beyond yield (aka got longer)?
This doesn't make sense in this day and age where, to a large extent,
such material properties are understood in most bicycle shops.

Where did you arrive upon this concept? Please elaborate.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

someone said:

The knurled ring is for fine tuning.

Quoted message said:

Usually cables stretch during their life, so when you put in a new
cable, screw the adjuster in, and unscrew it to effectively
compensate for cable stretch from time to time.

Oh! This sounds like the old, "my chain stretched when I climbed a
steep hill" story. Please tell me what you believe stretches or
shrinks with a brake or shift cable. Is it the strands plastically
changing length, the steel coil of the housing squashing? Have you
seen control cables that were stressed beyond yield (aka got longer)?
This doesn't make sense in this day and age where, to a large extent,
such material properties are understood in most bicycle shops.

Where did you arrive upon this concept? Please elaborate.

This from a man who declared that chain rings never wear enough to cause
chain skip.

Bill "has had to adjust rear derailleur cable tension due to slight
stretching more than a few times" S.

Quoted message said:

Where did you arrive upon this concept? Please elaborate.

You know what Mr. Brandt? You are a pompous windbag. The cycling
variant of Pat Robertson, somebody that confuses a constipated brow
wrinkle with divine infusion. Cycling would have done just fine without
your idotic velofundamentalism. Bugger off.

Cables stretch. Been stretching for the last 25 years since I started
cycling. New cables are better as they're a larger gauge (and sometimes
don't fit old 70's parts w/o a reaming of the hole), but they still
stretch. High end cables can be so resistant as to show no significant
stretch in their lifespan--but the middling stuff I buy needs a touch
up after a few months.

Steel is elastic. Concrete ain't.

anonymous said:

Quoted message said:

Where did you arrive upon this concept? Please elaborate.

Quoted message said:

You know what Mr. Brandt? You are a pompous windbag. The cycling
variant of Pat Robertson, somebody that confuses a constipated brow
wrinkle with divine infusion. Cycling would have done just fine
without your idotic velofundamentalism. Bugger off.

Quoted message said:

Cables stretch. Been stretching for the last 25 years since I
started cycling. New cables are better as they're a larger gauge
(and sometimes don't fit old 70's parts w/o a reaming of the hole),
but they still stretch. High end cables can be so resistant as to
show no significant stretch in their lifespan--but the middling
stuff I buy needs a touch up after a few months.

Quoted message said:

Steel is elastic. Concrete ain't.

I see you chose ad hominems to support your contention and show that
you are unaware of the difference between elastic and plastic response
of a materials. Just the same, you didn't explain what stretches and
how.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

anonymous said:

Quoted message said:

Where did you arrive upon this concept? Please elaborate.

Quoted message said:

You know what Mr. Brandt? You are a pompous windbag. The cycling
variant of Pat Robertson, somebody that confuses a constipated brow
wrinkle with divine infusion. Cycling would have done just fine
without your idotic velofundamentalism. Bugger off.

Quoted message said:

Cables stretch. Been stretching for the last 25 years since I
started cycling. New cables are better as they're a larger gauge
(and sometimes don't fit old 70's parts w/o a reaming of the hole),
but they still stretch. High end cables can be so resistant as to
show no significant stretch in their lifespan--but the middling
stuff I buy needs a touch up after a few months.

Quoted message said:

Steel is elastic. Concrete ain't.

I see you chose ad hominems to support your contention and show that
you are unaware of the difference between elastic and plastic response
of a materials. Just the same, you didn't explain what stretches and
how. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I could have SWORN he said /cables/ stretch. I'll go get the quote. Ah,
there it is: "Cables stretch."

As to how, boy that IS a mystery, isn't it?

LOL LOL LOL

You're really funny today, JB -- good stuff!

Bill Sornson said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Where did you arrive upon this concept? Please elaborate.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You know what Mr. Brandt? You are a pompous windbag. The cycling
variant of Pat Robertson, somebody that confuses a constipated brow
wrinkle with divine infusion. Cycling would have done just fine
without your idotic velofundamentalism. Bugger off.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cables stretch. Been stretching for the last 25 years since I
started cycling. New cables are better as they're a larger gauge
(and sometimes don't fit old 70's parts w/o a reaming of the hole),
but they still stretch. High end cables can be so resistant as to
show no significant stretch in their lifespan--but the middling
stuff I buy needs a touch up after a few months.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Steel is elastic. Concrete ain't.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I see you chose ad hominems to support your contention and show
that you are unaware of the difference between elastic and plastic
response of a materials. Just the same, you didn't explain what
stretches and how. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quoted message said:

I could have SWORN he said /cables/ stretch. I'll go get the quote.
Ah, there it is: "Cables stretch."

Quoted message said:

As to how, boy that IS a mystery, isn't it?

Under what circumstances do your cables stretch? Is it the first time
you apply the brakes or make a shift, and if it is not, then that
means you believe there is some gradual plastic creep. Since this
doesn't occur in steel, I believe it is appropriate for those making
such claims to explain how the stretching occurred and when.

Quoted message said:

LOL LOL LOL

Quoted message said:

You're really funny today, JB -- good stuff!

You are easily entertained.

Jobst Brandt

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill Sornson said:

Quoted message said:

someone said:

The knurled ring is for fine tuning.

Quoted message said:

Usually cables stretch during their life, so when you put in a new
cable, screw the adjuster in, and unscrew it to effectively
compensate for cable stretch from time to time.

Oh! This sounds like the old, "my chain stretched when I climbed a
steep hill" story. Please tell me what you believe stretches or
shrinks with a brake or shift cable. Is it the strands plastically
changing length, the steel coil of the housing squashing? Have you
seen control cables that were stressed beyond yield (aka got longer)?
This doesn't make sense in this day and age where, to a large extent,
such material properties are understood in most bicycle shops.

Where did you arrive upon this concept? Please elaborate.

This from a man who declared that chain rings never wear enough to cause
chain skip.

Bill "has had to adjust rear derailleur cable tension due to slight
stretching more than a few times" S.

Cables do not stretch. When I say stretch, I mean
plastically deform. Is this what you mean by `stretch'?
Suppose a cable plastically deforms. Then there is nothing
to prevent further plastic deformation. In fact the
stretched cable is thinner and easier to plastically
deform. Eventually you will be readjusting your brake
cable every time you use the brake. Eventually it will get
so thin it will not operate the brake.

What happens in freshly installed cable systems is that
cable housing can compress and cables can seat further
into cable stops. I watch the mechanics at a LBS install
cables. They haul on the cables for all they are worth to
fully seat the cable housing.

--
Michael Press

PrepressIT said:

Thanks for the excellent replies. It is the "north road" style of
handlebar I wanted to put on my bike. My Nishiki is in good
condition, I just think north road handlebars would give better
"touring" riding. Plus, I have never liked the hand brake arrangment,
even though they are the "compound" style where you can grab them
either on the curved or straight part of the drop down handlebars.

I missed the original discussion but sure, North Road bars
are a valid choice, especially at slow speeds and in traffic.

Regarding your 'suicide' levers: Although popular in the era
, what a terrible idea!. Look critically at the setup.
You'll notice the add-on lever reduces the cable travel
significantly so it is difficult at best to get a reasonable
brake adjustment. If your rims are even moderately
battle-scarred it's hopeless to achieve decent braking
without drag.
So yes, get a pair of flat-bar levers to go with your new
North Road bars, grips and the matching brake cables. While
you're at the LBS look at modern inline brake levers. The
new ones offer a snappy one-finger action you might like on
a road bar bike some day.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

PrepressIT said:

When it comes to adjusting the brake cables on the caliper (wheel) end,
what is the procedure regarding the cable if yours ends with two
knurled rings (one is the locking ring) at the end of the covered part
of the cable? I ask because there is bare cable that goes to a screw
on the end of the cable beyond that point. What is the functional
diffference in those two areas for adjusting brake cables?

That is an excellent question.
Too often riders futz around with the wire anchor. The
system is designed to be set once with a wrench. Use the
adjuster to take up slack as the shoes wear. Set it back to
the bottom when you change shoes. I haven't put a wrench to
the brakes of my daily bikes in years.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where did you arrive upon this concept? Please elaborate.

maxo said:

You know what Mr. Brandt? You are a pompous windbag. The cycling
variant of Pat Robertson, somebody that confuses a constipated brow
wrinkle with divine infusion. Cycling would have done just fine without
your idotic velofundamentalism. Bugger off.

Cables stretch. Been stretching for the last 25 years since I started
cycling. New cables are better as they're a larger gauge (and sometimes
don't fit old 70's parts w/o a reaming of the hole), but they still
stretch. High end cables can be so resistant as to show no significant
stretch in their lifespan--but the middling stuff I buy needs a touch
up after a few months.

Steel is elastic. Concrete ain't.

Unfortunately, you should have researched that before going
off on Mr Brandt.
The syndrome you describe is compression of the casing,
seating of the cable head and casing ends but not wire stretch.
Yes steel is elastic but that elasticity is insignificant to
a bicycle cable adjustment.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Yes steel is elastic but that elasticity is insignificant to
a bicycle cable adjustment.

FWIW I've never had any "cable stretch" except for the rear derailleur.
Granted, it's slight, but noticeable. (And "barrel" adjustments DO correct
slight shifting issues that arise, so /something/ is going on.)

Bill "more so on the mtb than the roadie" S.

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

Yes steel is elastic but that elasticity is insignificant to
a bicycle cable adjustment.

Bill Sornson said:

FWIW I've never had any "cable stretch" except for the rear derailleur.
Granted, it's slight, but noticeable. (And "barrel" adjustments DO correct
slight shifting issues that arise, so /something/ is going on.)
Bill "more so on the mtb than the roadie" S.

I believe the significant part is casing compression, casing
and ferrules seating into their stops and of course the head
seating in it's lever. The wire doesn't actually elongate in
any meaningful amount.

It sure LOOKS as if the wire stretched.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I could have SWORN he said /cables/ stretch. I'll go get the quote.
Ah, there it is: "Cables stretch."

Quoted message said:

As to how, boy that IS a mystery, isn't it?

Under what circumstances do your cables stretch? Is it the first time
you apply the brakes or make a shift, and if it is not, then that
means you believe there is some gradual plastic creep. Since this
doesn't occur in steel, I believe it is appropriate for those making
such claims to explain how the stretching occurred and when.

Believing that a derailleur cables stretches (plastically deform) is
ridiculous if you keep in mind what forces are needed to operate a
derailleur. When installed properly/with care in the beginning you
(almost) never have to adjust. People mostly fiddle around with the
adjustment because the cables are dirty and/or worn.

Lou
--
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