hardtail v full suspension

- = k O e N s = - said:

moving from 24" bmx cruiser and want to get into mtb, no storage room
so can only have one bike so need an all rounder i can ride to work in
the city but also taek off road on the weekends.

my mate suggests a short travel, and also suggested the SPECIALIZED sx
trail as a good starter bike.

Why short travel and why a starter bike?

I would judge the amount of travel by the type of offroad riding I was
going to do and get a suspension with a lockout and an extra set of
wheels for pavement. Offroad to me almost certainly means something
other than short travel, unless you mean well-groomed paths that are no
more challenging than what you would see on a paved road. Since more
money generally means lighter, among other things, I would get the best
bike I could afford.

I'm far from a mtb expert and there are some here in this ng who will
probably give you more specific advice.

- = k O e N s = - said:

moving from 24" bmx cruiser and want to get into mtb, no storage room
so can only have one bike so need an all rounder i can ride to work in
the city but also taek off road on the weekends.

my mate suggests a short travel, and also suggested the SPECIALIZED sx
trail as a good starter bike.

any suggestions?

All depends on the type of trails you are planning to ride. A short
travel bike in a trail with lots o' rocks n' roots is not going to cut
it. Lot's of MTBs now have lockouts so you can have your cake and eat
it.

Chris

Quoted message said:

- = k O e N s = - said:

moving from 24" bmx cruiser and want to get into mtb, no storage room
so can only have one bike so need an all rounder i can ride to work in
the city but also taek off road on the weekends.

my mate suggests a short travel, and also suggested the SPECIALIZED sx
trail as a good starter bike.

Why short travel and why a starter bike?

I would judge the amount of travel by the type of offroad riding I was
going to do and get a suspension with a lockout and an extra set of
wheels for pavement. Offroad to me almost certainly means something
other than short travel, unless you mean well-groomed paths that are no
more challenging than what you would see on a paved road. Since more
money generally means lighter, among other things, I would get the best
bike I could afford.

The shortest commonly used travel for a front fork is about 80mm. This is
perfectly adequate for aggressive cross country riding through almost any sort
of terrain.

If your idea of "offroad" is Northshore stunts and jump parks and ski lifts,
yah, you're right. but for the other 92% of off road riding you don't need a lot
of travel.

Back to the OP, I'm not very familiar with Specialized's product line if the
bike you meant was the "Specialized Enduro SX Trail" that's a substantial bike
and probably overkill (not entirely a bad thing) unless you ride hard over
severe terrain with jumps and three foot drops.

Almost any mountain bike will handle your commuter needs, for that you do prefer
shorter travel and a hard tail. The real test is what sort of off road riding
you do. If you're riding trails and such the same short travel hardtail will be
fine. If you're continuing your BMX ways you'll need a more robust fork with
more travel. I don't do jump and freeride myself and see a mix of HT and FS on
the guys who do, so I guess that's a matter of taste. For urban and jump park
stuff the HT seems to do as well. It's the guys riding fast over really crazy
trails who seem to need the rear suspension.

Ron

well short travel as i will be riding i to work on city streets... a

a starter bike as i wont be getting into full on downhill and i wont
really know what suits me till i'm actually riding....

i like the idea of suspension with lockout, would seem to give the bike
more versatiliy...

Quoted message said:

- = k O e N s = - said:

moving from 24" bmx cruiser and want to get into mtb, no storage room
so can only have one bike so need an all rounder i can ride to work in
the city but also taek off road on the weekends.

my mate suggests a short travel, and also suggested the SPECIALIZED sx
trail as a good starter bike.

Why short travel and why a starter bike?

I would judge the amount of travel by the type of offroad riding I was
going to do and get a suspension with a lockout and an extra set of
wheels for pavement. Offroad to me almost certainly means something
other than short travel, unless you mean well-groomed paths that are no
more challenging than what you would see on a paved road. Since more
money generally means lighter, among other things, I would get the best
bike I could afford.

I'm far from a mtb expert and there are some here in this ng who will
probably give you more specific advice.

- = k O e N s = - wrote

Quoted message said:

moving from 24" bmx cruiser and want to get into mtb, no storage room
so can only have one bike so need an all rounder i can ride to work in
the city but also taek off road on the weekends.

my mate suggests a short travel, and also suggested the SPECIALIZED sx
trail as a good starter bike.

any suggestions?

Well,

The SX Trail (I'm thinking it is called the Enduro SX Trail in North
America) is far from what I'd call a "starter" bike and has an excess of
travel for a commuter bike (170 mm is massive overkill for a commuter
bike and unless it has lockouts you'll lose a lot of power to the
suspension). In reality, the bike you choose will really depend on the
type of riding you're going to do. A 80-100 mm machine (3.5-4"😉 is
typical of a cross-counrty (XC) machine: you're after going places but
not catching a lot of air or going off of jumps more than a couple of
feet. These are generally the lightest of the full suspension bikes and
are quick at getting places fast, including climbing.

A 130-150 mm (5-6"😉 travel bike is more typical of the all mountain (AM)
trend these days. AM is more the "classic" type of mountain biking but
has come to include the a good portion of the efficiency of an XC bike
and combine it with bigger jumping / drops capabilities (but nothing
insane). AM is more of the progression of BMX onto the trails...the
bikes are heavier than XC machines in order to take more abuse. These AM
machines may or may not be adequate for free riding (FR), which is kinda
the next step up from urban BMX-ing where tricks and stunts (usually in
a concrete environment) are the norm. FR bikes are quite robust to take
the abuse their riders often dish out.

From there, you start getting into more of the downhill (DH) specific
machines which have massive travel for going down the mountain, but can
really suck trying to pedal up. The DH bikes are heavy (typically 40
lbs or more) so unless you know you're heading that way, it's probably a
good idea to avoid a DH bike for use in commuting.

I'm in the same situation...one bike for all my needs, including
commuting. For me, a heavy XC / light AM (130mm / 5" travel) setup is
what I'm running and shy of going on DH runs or to places like Whistler
(or other ski hills used by bikes in the summer) it does me
exceptionally well. I'm not a small guy a 6' (183 cm) and 235 lb (about
110 kg) but it handles what I can throw at it.

If you're doing mostly commuting and heading out on the weekend
(provided you're after "mountain biking" with your friends, rather than
some specific style of riding) I'd say look into more of an AM or AM/XC
type of machine. If you like Specialized, perhaps a Stumpjumper FSR
would be better...less travel than the SX Trail, but a more efficient /
quicker bike for commuting that is still ready to rip up the singletrack
with the buddies. Regardless, I'd say get out there and ride whatever
bike you're interested in...ride the competition as well..and pick the
bike that feels the best for you.

Just my $0.02 worth,

Michael Halliwell

RonSonic said:

The shortest commonly used travel for a front fork is about 80mm. This is
perfectly adequate for aggressive cross country riding through almost any sort
of terrain.

I agree. But I don't consider 80mm to be short travel compared to the
forks on hybrids, although relatively speaking these days it is on the
shorter end for true MTBs. Also, all 80mm forks are not equal, and 80mm
may be adequate in some forks and inadequate in others; I think 80mm +
starter bike = (probably) inadequate fork for aggressive XC, especially
when the person is coming from a BMX background.

I think my advice was good: base the travel on your offroad
requirements, lockout for the commuting, a spare set of wheels for
pavement, get as light as you can afford for the suspension you need.

- = k O e N s = - said:

moving from 24" bmx cruiser and want to get into mtb, no storage room
so can only have one bike so need an all rounder i can ride to work in
the city but also taek off road on the weekends.

my mate suggests a short travel, and also suggested the SPECIALIZED sx
trail as a good starter bike.

any suggestions?

Sounds like you need a RIGID FORK mtb.
Too bad it would be virtually impossible to get one.

Robert

Quoted message said:

Sounds like you need a RIGID FORK mtb.
Too bad it would be virtually impossible to get one.

Not true at all. Rigid mtb's (and forks) are widely available.

I have a hardtail, with a ThudBuster and sprung saddle, mainly for
comfort. In the really rough stuff I found it best just to stand up (and
lower my C.O.G. in the proces).

- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

To E-mail me:
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"Chris Z The Wheelman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a hardtail, with a ThudBuster and sprung saddle, mainly for
comfort. In the really rough stuff I found it best just to stand up (and
lower my C.O.G. in the proces).

How does one stand up, and lower one's C.O.G. in the process?

--
Snippy

Snippy Bobkins said:

"Chris Z The Wheelman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a hardtail, with a ThudBuster and sprung saddle, mainly for
comfort. In the really rough stuff I found it best just to stand up (and
lower my C.O.G. in the proces).

How does one stand up, and lower one's C.O.G. in the process?

Effectively moved to the pedals instead of the saddle, I'd guess.

Not how I look at it, but ....

Ron

Snippy Bobkins said:

"Chris Z The Wheelman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a hardtail, with a ThudBuster and sprung saddle, mainly for
comfort. In the really rough stuff I found it best just to stand up (and
lower my C.O.G. in the proces).

How does one stand up, and lower one's C.O.G. in the process?

When standing, you are applying the load of the riders weight via the BB
vs the seat...although the riders centre of mass moves up slightly,
where it is applied to the bike is greatly lowered.

Michael Halliwell said:

Snippy Bobkins said:

"Chris Z The Wheelman" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a hardtail, with a ThudBuster and sprung saddle, mainly for
comfort. In the really rough stuff I found it best just to stand up (and
lower my C.O.G. in the proces).

How does one stand up, and lower one's C.O.G. in the process?

When standing, you are applying the load of the riders weight via the BB
vs the seat...although the riders centre of mass moves up slightly,
where it is applied to the bike is greatly lowered.

How does one stand up, and lower one's C.O.G. in the process?

Greg

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

In article <Zc_ug.203411$iF6.99687@pd7tw2no>,

Michael Halliwell said:

Snippy Bobkins said:

"Chris Z The Wheelman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a hardtail, with a ThudBuster and sprung saddle, mainly for
comfort. In the really rough stuff I found it best just to stand up (and
lower my C.O.G. in the proces).

How does one stand up, and lower one's C.O.G. in the process?

When standing, you are applying the load of the riders weight via the BB
vs the seat...although the riders centre of mass moves up slightly,
where it is applied to the bike is greatly lowered.

Center of mass and center of gravity are two names for the
same point. Will you describe what you accomplish by
moving the load from saddle to pedals? Thanks.

--
Michael Press

Quoted message said:

RonSonic wrote:

Quoted message said:

I think my advice was good: base the travel on your offroad
requirements, lockout for the commuting, a spare set of wheels for
pavement, get as light as you can afford for the suspension you need.

souns good, i think i'm gonna try find a bike that has lock outs for
the suspension so i can get the best of both worlds...

i put maxxi hookworms on my schwinn and now it is a horrible slow and
heavy beast... =(

want a new bike badly! and TAG wheels! =)

- = k O e N s = - said:

Quoted message said:

I think my advice was good: base the travel on your offroad
requirements, lockout for the commuting, a spare set of wheels for
pavement, get as light as you can afford for the suspension you need.

souns good, i think i'm gonna try find a bike that has lock outs for
the suspension so i can get the best of both worlds...

Well, the rear suspension is better off road but not necessary -
especially if you're on a budget, a good rear suspension is really
expensive, and you may also consider a HT.

The pros of a well-suspended FS are :
- more grip when going uphill
- more comfort (but a thudbusterLT can also bring you that)
- more control on fast / rocky downhills

The cons :
- don't expect to find a FS bike with decent suspensions under
1500/2000$...
- a tad more weight (not really significant imho)

Quoted message said:

The cons :
- don't expect to find a FS bike with decent suspensions under
1500/2000$...
- a tad more weight (not really significant imho)

yeah i'm prepared for the price

i'm liking the NIcolai UFO

http://www.nicolai.net/imgs/range-06/ufo/ufo-seite-01-sw.jpg

UFO
Worldcup 4X, BX, Dirt, Full Suspension Bike. Rear travel 85 - 115mm
(3,4 to 4,5 inch)
Colors
Sizecharts

Framesize S, M, L, XL
Fork size best length 518mm, travel 100 - 130 mm
Rear shock

X-Fusion Vector RPV 200 mm /
FOX DHX 3.0, or 4.0 200 mm /
Romic DA 200 mm
Price (Germany) 1499,- EUR >> more details

Bill Sornson said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like you need a RIGID FORK mtb.
Too bad it would be virtually impossible to get one.

Not true at all. Rigid mtb's (and forks) are widely available.

Where? And I'm talking about a decent but not extravagent bike. Or are
you proposing that he get a bike with the suspension fork and then swap
in a rigid?

Ron Ruff said:

Bill Sornson said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like you need a RIGID FORK mtb.
Too bad it would be virtually impossible to get one.

Not true at all. Rigid mtb's (and forks) are widely available.

Where? And I'm talking about a decent but not extravagent bike. Or are
you proposing that he get a bike with the suspension fork and then
swap in a rigid?

Almost any LBS should have a fair selection of fully rigid mtb's. (I'm not
up on current models, but certainly manufacturers like Giant, Specialized,
Trek, etc. offer nice entry-level bikes without suspension.)

I didn't really follow the thread; just replied to that one comment above.
Rigid forks are still quite common.