Headlight Recommendations

Tom 'Johnny Sunset' Sherman said:

SMS aka Steven M. Scharf said:

...
I don't dislike or like them. I have some dynamo lights. They are fine
for use in certain circumstances, certainly in bicycle-friendly
places, like the Netherlands, they are often sufficient....

What is the outlook for fuel cell powered lights? I don't care for any
of the lights currently on the market, as they are either limited in
output or runtime. 🙁

No they're not, you just have to be willing to haul around enough
batteries to get the run-time and output you need.

Look at what RC airplanes use if you want to know what the currently
available lightest, highest output power source is. Right now, it's
Li-Po batteries. I haven't seen any bicycle lights with Li-Po yet,
though Li-Ion is more and more common.

Personally, I'd be willing to have a more powerful dynamo than the
commonly available 3W, and somewhat less available 6W models. A 12W
dynamo would be sufficient to power satisfactory lights for most
commuters, and on a commute the extra commute time might not be such a
big deal. Even 9W might be sufficient.

SMS aka Steven M. Scharf said:

Tom 'Johnny Sunset' Sherman said:

SMS aka Steven M. Scharf said:

...
I don't dislike or like them. I have some dynamo lights. They are
fine for use in certain circumstances, certainly in bicycle-friendly
places, like the Netherlands, they are often sufficient....

What is the outlook for fuel cell powered lights? I don't care for any
of the lights currently on the market, as they are either limited in
output or runtime. 🙁

No they're not, you just have to be willing to haul around enough
batteries to get the run-time and output you need.

I really do not want a battery that doubles the weight of the bike.

Where is Mr. Shipstone when you need him?

Quoted message said:

Look at what RC airplanes use if you want to know what the currently
available lightest, highest output power source is. Right now, it's
Li-Po batteries. I haven't seen any bicycle lights with Li-Po yet,
though Li-Ion is more and more common.

ALL batteries have lousy power and energy densities compared to liquid
hydrocarbon fuels. 🙁

Quoted message said:

Personally, I'd be willing to have a more powerful dynamo than the
commonly available 3W, and somewhat less available 6W models. A 12W
dynamo would be sufficient to power satisfactory lights for most
commuters, and on a commute the extra commute time might not be such a
big deal. Even 9W might be sufficient.

Is the drag too high for most people's taste, or is there some other
reason only low-power dynamo-hubs are available?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Personally, I'd be willing to have a more powerful dynamo than the
commonly available 3W, and somewhat less available 6W models. A 12W
dynamo would be sufficient to power satisfactory lights for most
commuters, and on a commute the extra commute time might not be such a
big deal. Even 9W might be sufficient.

Is the drag too high for most people's taste, or is there some other
reason only low-power dynamo-hubs are available?

At least part of it is the market. The big one is in Germany, where dynamos
are mandated for many types of bike. The rules there said "3W" for a long
time. I believe they now allow a 6W type too, but there's the catch-22 of
they're new, expensive and rare, so nobody buys them, so they remain
expensive and rare. So everybody sticks to 3W, which contrary to some
people's worries actually works fine.

I do wonder if there's also a good physical reason - it might be hard to
make a 6W hub work at the required low speeds at the low speeds a hub runs
at. Some variant on can't get the magnets, or the required magnets don't
fit. http://www.nabendynamo.de/12vinfo.htm mentions why they don't do it -
if you're not happy with German (like me), try translating with one of the
web translation engines.

You can run 6W at speed on a 3W dynamo-hub - since it's effectively a
constant current device, you can switch in an extra bulb for when you're
going faster than 12mph IIRC (below the critical speed the voltage drops and
the lamps get dim). The Solidlights LED lamp does this automagically.

The drag is peanuts for both - equivalent to a couple of feet climb per
mile, even for the worst of the hubs.

cheers,
clive

Clive George said:

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Personally, I'd be willing to have a more powerful dynamo than the
commonly available 3W, and somewhat less available 6W models. A 12W
dynamo would be sufficient to power satisfactory lights for most
commuters, and on a commute the extra commute time might not be such
a big deal. Even 9W might be sufficient.

Is the drag too high for most people's taste, or is there some other
reason only low-power dynamo-hubs are available?

At least part of it is the market. The big one is in Germany, where
dynamos are mandated for many types of bike. The rules there said "3W"
for a long time. I believe they now allow a 6W type too, but there's the
catch-22 of they're new, expensive and rare, so nobody buys them, so
they remain expensive and rare. So everybody sticks to 3W, which
contrary to some people's worries actually works fine....

3W dynamo lights do not work on a lowracer recumbent that easily sees
90+ kph in any type of real hills. A 25W/40W high/low HID or 50W/80W
halogen with 36+ hours of run-time is what I want.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

SMS said:

Personally, I'd be willing to have a more powerful dynamo than the
commonly available 3W, and somewhat less available 6W models. A 12W
dynamo would be sufficient to power satisfactory lights for most
commuters, and on a commute the extra commute time might not be such a
big deal. Even 9W might be sufficient.

Steven M. Scharf is making another fundamental mistake with units.
He's made worse ones on his website, but this one still needs
explanation.

It's pretty shortsighted to say you want a more powerful dynamo.
That's not what you're after. If, indeed, you can't cycle with a
standard 3W generator headlight, there's a good chance that you want
better optics. Some (especially older) generator headlamps had optics
that weren't great. IME, modern generator headlamps put the light
output - that is, the available lumens - to much better use.

And it could be that SMS/Scharf's aversion to generators comes from
that problem. How else to explain the fact that he slams generators
every chance he gets, and so many people find them best of all?

But to continue: Even if optics aren't the problem, and (say) a
person had deficient night vision, what that person would want would
be more lumens, not more watts. The distinction is important: lumens
are a measure of total light output; Watts are a measurement of
electrical (or other) power. Power is not the same thing as light
output.

This is significant because we're at a point in time when LEDs are
starting to exceed halogen bulbs in lumens-per-Watt. The first LED
generator headlights are now on the market. They will rapidly
improve, and probably rapidly drop in price, just as LED battery
lights have done.

And an extra-efficient LED lamp driven by a generator set has the
possibility of more light with all the convenience of a generator set
(i.e. never worrying about recharging, replacing, or running too long
for your batteries; never worrying about not having a headlight on
your bike, etc.)

Alternately, for those folks who feel they can't stand generator drag
equivalent to climbing five feet in a mile, (0.1% grade),
manufacturers may come out with lower power, lower drag generators
that produce the same amount of light as current ones. (see
http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/dynotest.html about drag.)

Of course, the current amount of light works extremely well for the
vast majority of the world's nighttime cyclists. It's only the non-
cycling countries - like the US - where many people think they need to
look like a supernova.

- Frank Krygowski

aka Frank Krygowski said:

...
Of course, the current amount of light works extremely well for the
vast majority of the world's nighttime cyclists. It's only the non-
cycling countries - like the US - where many people think they need to
look like a supernova.

I want to look like a motorcycle to motorized traffic, and I want the
light output of a motorcycle headlight when descending at motorcycle
type speeds.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is the drag too high for most people's taste, or is there some other
reason only low-power dynamo-hubs are available?

3W dynamo lights do not work on a lowracer recumbent that easily sees 90+
kph in any type of real hills. A 25W/40W high/low HID or 50W/80W halogen
with 36+ hours of run-time is what I want.

Not going to happen with a dynamo - that's well into "too much drag"
territory. Simple physics. TBH that power/runtime off a battery of sensible
weight isn't going to happen either for a while - maybe 5kg off current
Li-Polymer technology if you're lucky? Guess you'll have to find a route
with less steep hills :-)
(or of course regulate your requirement a bit. I'd be happy with a 10W HID
at 70kph, and 6W halogen < 40kph. For 90kph+, the 80W halogen may be
appropriate. So what proportion of your time do you spend at these speeds?
(<10kph, <40kph, <70kph, faster) ).

cheers,
clive

SMS said:

Jay Beattie said:

A dynamo is not an option for me because I switch bikes and need
something portable. I also want as much illumination as economically
feasible due to my riding conditions -- lots of rain and fast descents
in areas that are poorly illuminated but that have lots of point light
source polution (cars and homes in the hills). -- Jay Beattie.

I'm in a similar situation, as are I suspect most bike commuters (which
is why dynamo systems aren't very popular in the U.S..

I have a dynamo system that's good for short trips to the store on
streets that I'm familiar with, at low speeds, but a dynamo system isn't
viable for most commute conditions, where you need greater brightness
for both higher speeds and either unlit streets or streets where you
need the brighter lights to stand out.

More bull.

While I won't doubt that _some_ rare conditions may need more light
output than a typical dynamo delivers, it's absolutely false to
pretend dynamos must be limited to low speeds, streets with street
lights, etc. It's garbage to pretend they don't work for "most
commuting conditions."

First, I gave up using my rechargeables long ago. I still have them
(and just replaced one battery, in case someone needs to borrow it)
but I long ago found they just weren't worth carrying around. The
generators I have on all my bikes are simply better. The light output
is absolutely sufficient for speeds up to 20 mph at least, and for
streets with street lights, streets and roads without street lights,
low traffic, high traffic - I've used these lights in all those
conditions.

Furthermore, I just returned from a European vacation in four
countries. The bicycle use I saw totally eclipsed what I've seen in
_any_ US city. That's commuting and utility use by all types and ages
of people, not "let's drive our bikes to the bike path" use. The big
majority of the bikes had lights, and almost all were generator
powered, not battery powered. Most of the world's commuters are
using generators.

If anyone thinks a decent generator set doesn't throw enough light to
be seen, observe one in action. I've had others ride my bike in
various test situations so I could observe it. I've demonstrated it
to others. _Nobody_ has ever said it's not bright enough to be
conspicuous. In fact, the comments I've gotten have all been like
"Wow - that _is_ bright!"

Coincidentally, I had a rather well-known bicycle advocate from out of
state visit a few nights ago. At one point, he proudly showed me the
new battery-powered headlight he'd just bought - a small LED unit. I
took him downstairs so we could compare with my standard generator
set. It was literally no contest; the generator was _much_ brighter -
yet he rides and commutes in one of our country's busiest major cities
using his LED light.

Keep in mind, generator sets are still popular with people riding
Paris-Brest-Paris. That's including endurance riding in hilly
terrain, high speeds, unfamiliar roads, varying street light
conditions ... all those horrors Scharf needs aircraft landing lights
to survive.

- Frank Krygowski

Clive George said:

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Is the drag too high for most people's taste, or is there some other
> reason only low-power dynamo-hubs are available?

3W dynamo lights do not work on a lowracer recumbent that easily sees
90+ kph in any type of real hills. A 25W/40W high/low HID or 50W/80W
halogen with 36+ hours of run-time is what I want.

Not going to happen with a dynamo - that's well into "too much drag"
territory. Simple physics. TBH that power/runtime off a battery of
sensible weight isn't going to happen either for a while - maybe 5kg off
current Li-Polymer technology if you're lucky? Guess you'll have to find
a route with less steep hills :-)
(or of course regulate your requirement a bit. I'd be happy with a 10W
HID at 70kph, and 6W halogen < 40kph. For 90kph+, the 80W halogen may be
appropriate. So what proportion of your time do you spend at these
speeds? (<10kph, <40kph, <70kph, faster) ).

No much, but I HATE wasting kinetic energy with the brakes that I could
use to go part-way up the next hill.

Based on riding a motorcycle, 80W halogen is merely adequate for 90-100
kph speeds.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Quoted message said:

SMS said:

Jay Beattie said:

A dynamo is not an option for me because I switch bikes and need
something portable. I also want as much illumination as economically
feasible due to my riding conditions -- lots of rain and fast descents
in areas that are poorly illuminated but that have lots of point light
source polution (cars and homes in the hills). -- Jay Beattie.

Quoted message said:

I'm in a similar situation, as are I suspect most bike commuters (which
is why dynamo systems aren't very popular in the U.S..

Quoted message said:

I have a dynamo system that's good for short trips to the store on
streets that I'm familiar with, at low speeds, but a dynamo system isn't
viable for most commute conditions, where you need greater brightness
for both higher speeds and either unlit streets or streets where you
need the brighter lights to stand out.

More bull.

While I won't doubt that _some_ rare conditions may need more light
output than a typical dynamo delivers, it's absolutely false to
pretend dynamos must be limited to low speeds, streets with street
lights, etc. It's garbage to pretend they don't work for "most
commuting conditions."

First, I gave up using my rechargeables long ago. I still have them
(and just replaced one battery, in case someone needs to borrow it)
but I long ago found they just weren't worth carrying around. The
generators I have on all my bikes are simply better. The light output
is absolutely sufficient for speeds up to 20 mph at least, and for
streets with street lights, streets and roads without street lights,
low traffic, high traffic - I've used these lights in all those
conditions.

Furthermore, I just returned from a European vacation in four
countries. The bicycle use I saw totally eclipsed what I've seen in
_any_ US city. That's commuting and utility use by all types and ages
of people, not "let's drive our bikes to the bike path" use. The big
majority of the bikes had lights, and almost all were generator
powered, not battery powered. Most of the world's commuters are
using generators.

If anyone thinks a decent generator set doesn't throw enough light to
be seen, observe one in action. I've had others ride my bike in
various test situations so I could observe it. I've demonstrated it
to others. _Nobody_ has ever said it's not bright enough to be
conspicuous. In fact, the comments I've gotten have all been like
"Wow - that _is_ bright!"

Coincidentally, I had a rather well-known bicycle advocate from out of
state visit a few nights ago. At one point, he proudly showed me the
new battery-powered headlight he'd just bought - a small LED unit. I
took him downstairs so we could compare with my standard generator
set. It was literally no contest; the generator was _much_ brighter -
yet he rides and commutes in one of our country's busiest major cities
using his LED light.

Keep in mind, generator sets are still popular with people riding
Paris-Brest-Paris. That's including endurance riding in hilly
terrain, high speeds, unfamiliar roads, varying street light
conditions ... all those horrors Scharf needs aircraft landing lights
to survive.

- Frank Krygowski

Yes, it's yet another round of "Krygowski v. Scharf"!

It reminds me of what Oscar Wilde said about fox hunting: "The
Unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible".

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

aka Frank Krygowski said:

...
Of course, the current amount of light works extremely well for the
vast majority of the world's nighttime cyclists. It's only the non-
cycling countries - like the US - where many people think they need to
look like a supernova.

I want to look like a motorcycle to motorized traffic, and I want the
light output of a motorcycle headlight when descending at motorcycle
type speeds.

Sorry, but if you don't plan on using motorcycle-duty wheels, tires
and brakes, it's not very sensible to say you need a motorcycle
headlight.

Bicycles are all about efficiency - about having exactly the
appropriate level of capability for the job. That's why the rubber on
our tires isn't half an inch thick, even though our thin tires get
some flats. That's why our spokes are less than a millimeter thick,
not 3 or 4 millimeters. That's why your bike's frame weighs less than
5 pounds, not 25 pounds or more. Why should a cyclist violate this
principle regarding lights?

You're not on a motorcycle. Unless you're _extremely_ unusual, you
don't approach intersections at 50 mph, and need to warn motorists at
stop signs 300 feet away. You don't do 70 on the freeway, or on
winding country roads. You simply don't need a headlight that is
appropriate for those conditions.

- Frank Krygowski

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(or of course regulate your requirement a bit. I'd be happy with a 10W
HID at 70kph, and 6W halogen < 40kph. For 90kph+, the 80W halogen may be
appropriate. So what proportion of your time do you spend at these
speeds? (<10kph, <40kph, <70kph, faster) ).

No much, but I HATE wasting kinetic energy with the brakes that I could
use to go part-way up the next hill.

That wasn't my question. What proportion of your time do you spend at those
speeds - <10kph, <40kph, <70kph, faster. With that knowledge, we can
discover if a battery system is feasible based on what I consider adequate.
Doesn't help your stated requirement of "must look like a motorbike at all
times", but that's not really going to happen anyway.

cheers,
clive

aka Frank Krygowski said:

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

aka Frank Krygowski said:

...
Of course, the current amount of light works extremely well for the
vast majority of the world's nighttime cyclists. It's only the non-
cycling countries - like the US - where many people think they need to
look like a supernova.

I want to look like a motorcycle to motorized traffic, and I want the
light output of a motorcycle headlight when descending at motorcycle
type speeds.

Sorry, but if you don't plan on using motorcycle-duty wheels, tires
and brakes, it's not very sensible to say you need a motorcycle
headlight.

To the contrary, if the motorists think I am a motorcycle, they will
assume I am going at a typical motorcycle speed and not cut me off. If
they think bicycle, they will think I am going less than 10 mph and cut
me off. Happens quite often. 🙁

Quoted message said:

Bicycles are all about efficiency - about having exactly the
appropriate level of capability for the job. That's why the rubber on
our tires isn't half an inch thick, even though our thin tires get
some flats. That's why our spokes are less than a millimeter thick,
not 3 or 4 millimeters. That's why your bike's frame weighs less than
5 pounds, not 25 pounds or more. Why should a cyclist violate this
principle regarding lights?

You're not on a motorcycle. Unless you're _extremely_ unusual, you
don't approach intersections at 50 mph, and need to warn motorists at
stop signs 300 feet away. You don't do 70 on the freeway, or on
winding country roads. You simply don't need a headlight that is
appropriate for those conditions.

Every ride in a hilly area on a fast lowracer or fully-faired recumbent
at night? Motorcycle type speeds are easily obtained going downhill, and
a 3W dynamo light is not going to cut it.

Now if you are talking about riding around the city at normal cycle
speeds (15-40 kph), yes, a good hub dynamo and light with decent optics
is adequate if you allow for stupid motorists cutting you off when
pulling out of cross-streets and driveways.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Clive George said:

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(or of course regulate your requirement a bit. I'd be happy with a
10W HID at 70kph, and 6W halogen < 40kph. For 90kph+, the 80W halogen
may be appropriate. So what proportion of your time do you spend at
these speeds? (<10kph, <40kph, <70kph, faster) ).

No much, but I HATE wasting kinetic energy with the brakes that I
could use to go part-way up the next hill.

That wasn't my question. What proportion of your time do you spend at
those speeds - <10kph, <40kph, <70kph, faster. With that knowledge, we
can discover if a battery system is feasible based on what I consider
adequate. Doesn't help your stated requirement of "must look like a
motorbike at all times", but that's not really going to happen anyway.

Yes, a hub dynamo and a battery high power halogen would work, but the
wiring gets cumbersome since the light needs to be mounted on the boom
in front of one's feet, with the switch on the handlebars.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> (or of course regulate your requirement a bit. I'd be happy with a 10W
> HID at 70kph, and 6W halogen < 40kph. For 90kph+, the 80W halogen may
> be appropriate. So what proportion of your time do you spend at these
> speeds? (<10kph, <40kph, <70kph, faster) ).

No much, but I HATE wasting kinetic energy with the brakes that I could
use to go part-way up the next hill.

That wasn't my question. What proportion of your time do you spend at
those speeds - <10kph, <40kph, <70kph, faster. With that knowledge, we
can discover if a battery system is feasible based on what I consider
adequate. Doesn't help your stated requirement of "must look like a
motorbike at all times", but that's not really going to happen anyway.

Yes, a hub dynamo and a battery high power halogen would work, but the
wiring gets cumbersome since the light needs to be mounted on the boom in
front of one's feet, with the switch on the handlebars.

Wahey, sorted! But we still need to work out how big a battery is required,
which means we still need the answer to my question.
Re the wiring - a relay based system would seem most appropriate for the big
light - I agree that taking the high current wiring to the handlebars is a
big silly. They don't do it on cars either.

Could be worth doing relays for the 'mo based bits too, since you may well
want two switches there too. Or use a solidlight for everything < 40kph,
then the switching for that is irrelevant. Switch on when it gets dark - you
can do that while stopped, so no need for a handlebar switch.

cheers,
clive

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

aka Frank Krygowski said:

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

[email hidden] aka Frank Krygowski wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> ...
> Of course, the current amount of light works extremely well for the
> vast majority of the world's nighttime cyclists. It's only the non-
> cycling countries - like the US - where many people think they need to
> look like a supernova.
I want to look like a motorcycle to motorized traffic, and I want the
light output of a motorcycle headlight when descending at motorcycle
type speeds.

Quoted message said:

Sorry, but if you don't plan on using motorcycle-duty wheels, tires
and brakes, it's not very sensible to say you need a motorcycle
headlight.

To the contrary, if the motorists think I am a motorcycle, they will
assume I am going at a typical motorcycle speed and not cut me off. If
they think bicycle, they will think I am going less than 10 mph and cut
me off. Happens quite often. 🙁

Those sorts of statements always amaze me. When I ride at night,
motorists always give me more consideration, not less. I've been
amazed many times by motorists that wait, and wait, and wait for me to
pass before turning left across my path, or pulling out from a stop
sign, when they obviously could have safely done so much earlier.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bicycles are all about efficiency - about having exactly the
appropriate level of capability for the job. That's why the rubber on
our tires isn't half an inch thick, even though our thin tires get
some flats. That's why our spokes are less than a millimeter thick,
not 3 or 4 millimeters. That's why your bike's frame weighs less than
5 pounds, not 25 pounds or more. Why should a cyclist violate this
principle regarding lights?

Quoted message said:

You're not on a motorcycle. Unless you're _extremely_ unusual, you
don't approach intersections at 50 mph, and need to warn motorists at
stop signs 300 feet away. You don't do 70 on the freeway, or on
winding country roads. You simply don't need a headlight that is
appropriate for those conditions.

Every ride in a hilly area on a fast lowracer or fully-faired recumbent
at night? Motorcycle type speeds are easily obtained going downhill, and
a 3W dynamo light is not going to cut it.

Well, no, I haven't. The only really low machine I have is a trike
built on a low racer pattern. Frankly, it's not something I enjoy
riding.

If you really do attain speeds of, say, 25+ mph at night with any
regularity, you'll probably need more than a good generator light.
But even then, something at moped level should do it. You're still
not on a crotch rocket, or even a touring motorcycle.

Quoted message said:

Now if you are talking about riding around the city at normal cycle
speeds (15-40 kph), yes, a good hub dynamo and light with decent optics
is adequate if you allow for stupid motorists cutting you off when
pulling out of cross-streets and driveways.

Again, that's literally never been a problem. I've been cut off a few
times by motorists who didn't see me in daylight. Twice in one
memorable day, in fact - and astonishingly, both apologized
profusely.

Since it's never happened in darkness, and since instead I've gotten
spontaneous compliments on my nighttime conspicuity, I feel sure my
lighting/reflector system is doing its job.

- Frank Krygowski

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

Yes, a hub dynamo and a battery high power halogen would work, but the
wiring gets cumbersome since the light needs to be mounted on the boom
in front of one's feet, with the switch on the handlebars.

Wow. I'd have thought that a dedicated recumbent rider would be used
to the extra fiddling it takes to mount "ordinary bike" accessories on
his machine!

- Frank Krygowski

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

SMS said:

Jay Beattie said:

A dynamo is not an option for me because I switch bikes and need
something portable. I also want as much illumination as
economically feasible due to my riding conditions -- lots of rain
and fast descents in areas that are poorly illuminated but that
have lots of point light source polution (cars and homes in the
hills). -- Jay Beattie.

I'm in a similar situation, as are I suspect most bike commuters
(which is why dynamo systems aren't very popular in the U.S..

I have a dynamo system that's good for short trips to the store on
streets that I'm familiar with, at low speeds, but a dynamo system
isn't viable for most commute conditions, where you need greater
brightness for both higher speeds and either unlit streets or
streets where you need the brighter lights to stand out.

More bull.

Yup, it is, it's not new and SMS has been pounding this particular dead
horse for years. I have no trouble believing that he finds the
available generator lights insufficient for his preferences. I have
trouble with his baseless extrapolation that generator lights are
therefore useless for everyone else. After riding from dusk to dawn
multiple times with my generator lights, I know he's wrong about that.
Every time on my commutes or fun rides when night falls and I can just
flip a switch and have lights, without having to wonder if I charged up
the battery, I know he's wrong. But I'm not going to waste my time
trying to convince him of that. If he was going to come around and see
the light (as it were), he'd have already done so.

Quoted message said:

On Aug 6, 10:52 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] aka Frank Krygowski wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

...
Of course, the current amount of light works extremely well for the
vast majority of the world's nighttime cyclists. It's only the non-
cycling countries - like the US - where many people think they need to
look like a supernova.

Quoted message said:

I want to look like a motorcycle to motorized traffic, and I want the
light output of a motorcycle headlight when descending at motorcycle
type speeds.

Sorry, but if you don't plan on using motorcycle-duty wheels, tires
and brakes, it's not very sensible to say you need a motorcycle
headlight.

Bicycles are all about efficiency - about having exactly the
appropriate level of capability for the job. That's why the rubber on
our tires isn't half an inch thick, even though our thin tires get
some flats. That's why our spokes are less than a millimeter thick,
not 3 or 4 millimeters. That's why your bike's frame weighs less than
5 pounds, not 25 pounds or more. Why should a cyclist violate this
principle regarding lights?

You're not on a motorcycle. Unless you're _extremely_ unusual, you
don't approach intersections at 50 mph, and need to warn motorists at
stop signs 300 feet away. You don't do 70 on the freeway, or on
winding country roads. You simply don't need a headlight that is
appropriate for those conditions.

Hey, when its foggy, raining, dark -- and I'm sliding down some goat
trail on my way home through the hills, I want as much f****** light
as I can get. I'm old. My eyesight sucks. I don't care if it is too
much light in some metaphysical sense.

I also don't know about modern generator lights -- mabye they're
bright, but most people (including me) don't want to drop $400+ to
find out (based on Peter White's prices for rim, spokes, hub, light).
If I could test drive one of these things, I might consider it --
except, again, I use two bikes -- one with a disc, so I can't just
flip the wheels. -- Jay Beattie.

cv said:

Quoted message said:

I use the Cateye EL-500 $45 30 hours on 4 AA Duracells.

-------------
I use a EL-500 and a DiNotte, they both complement each other. Also I
never ride with just one light, in case one fails.

I have double EL-500's on both my bikes, mostly use one at a time but
both work too. I've never declined to ride somewhere at night because I
thought my lights weren't bright enough.

I have a EL530 bought for one bike I'm building, the regulated output is
nice but I don't know I like the beam shape (a round tight center spot
with wide spill). But as the EL-500 is discontinued I suppose half that
decision is already made. The EL500 was the best cheapie headlight
around a year ago.

The important factor for choosing a light (I think) is that the reason
for using it is to allow you to see and avoid road debris that is
potentially harmful to your tires.... and {while riding at a typical
speed} how far away can you spot a nail or screw, even in daylight? Five
yards? Seven yards perhaps? Lighting beyond this distance does not
matter, because it is no help anyway. ....If there was a screw lying in
your path 100 yards away, you don't NEED to light it at night, because
even in daylight you wouldn't be able to spot the screw anyway.

The other odd argument I've heard in favor of ultra-bright bike lights
is that "they help oncoming traffic see you". The problem with this
argument is that if you're riding with traffic, then oncoming cars are
on the opposite side of the road anyway. The main risk is cars coming up
behind you, and they probably won't seen your headlight at all, if it's
1 watt or 1000 watts.
~