Headset lifetime?

Tim McNamara said:

John Thompson said:

Clyde said:

In another thread, 10+ years was mentioned as the lifetime of a headset. I bought my first road
bike, Bianchi San Remo, 3 years ago, and I noticed headset indexing in the second season of use.
Is this because I didn't disassemble and grease the bearings every year, or was it adjusted too
tight to begin with? I bought it new from a Bianchi dealer. It has a Bianchi alloy headset.

What kind of headset? A properly maintained, high quality headset should last more than 2 years,
unless you're beating the hell out of
it. And even then I'd expect better.

What does "beating the hell out of it" have to do with it? Headsets wear out by developing
"detents" in the lower race. This is not the result of beating or bumps, it is the result of
metal-to-metal wear. The grease gets pushed out from between the ball and the cup and cone. Long
straight descents, being clamped in a fork-mount roof rack, etc. are situations which cause this
characteristic wear. It's not from dents being caused by hitting bumps. See the FAQ.

BMX headsets are definitely not like road bike headsets.

Quoted message said:

You must have good ears. I haven't been able to hear any difference. I adjust the headset by
applying the front brake and rocking the bike back and forth and feeling for play.

Then your headset must not have been loose enough; the difference in sound between a loose headset
and one that's either adjusted properly or too tight is quite noticeable.

Please note that you cannot distinguish, noise-wise, between a headset that is too tight and one
that is just-right. What you need is a headset that is tightened up *only* enough that the extra
noise goes away. I don't recall that I've ever come across a non-cartridge-bearing headset where
this didn't work.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Mike, are these cheapo headsets regreased at some interval of time, or not?

I'd like to pretend that my bike gets a lot more maintenance than it does... but the truth is that,
apart from proper adjustment, my headsets are very rarely taken apart and cleaned/regreased.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

1 Dec 2003 said:

I'd rather see that expressed in miles. I know lots of folks whose headsets lasted more then 20
years but then they don't ride either.

My Campagnolo equipped oldest bike has had, since 1972, its original headset. For so many years
it's been the preferred one of the two bikes I had: mine and my wife's. I still often ride it, on
any terrain.

Sergio Pisa

Peter Chisholm said:

If the headtube and fork crown race are prepped, the HS installed correctly, with good grasso,
adjusted well, and properly maintained, ANY HS will last for a long time.

If that were so, what causes dimpled head bearings, and why would King, Cane Creek and Shimano spend
so much design work to introduce compound bearings for this purpose?

I think you need to face up to the cause of these failures and not rely on failed practices.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

I've destroyed a Shimano 1055 headset in 500 miles. They just weren't very good.

Quoted message said:

Several of my bikes over the years came with el-cheapo-bastardo headsets (much lower quality than
the '105 you had) which I said I'd get around to upgrading when they wore out. Trouble is, even
the very cheapest headset, when properly adjusted, will take forever to wear out. If I had a
headset that wore out in less than 30k miles, I don't remember it.

It's the design of the bearing that makes the difference. Campagnolo Record head bearings failed as
fast as any mainly because they were rigidly mounted bearings. The ones I mentioned, have spherical
alignment that allows the bearing to take up fork crown swivel in a plain bearing, leaving the ball
bearings to do the steering rotation only. That is where the difference lies.

Quoted message said:

The key is adjustment. Most (nearly all?) threaded headsets start their life out adjusted too
tightly, and this kills 'em. A new headset can be easily overtightened and still feel smooth.
The *only* way I've found to adjust a headset properly is with the "bounce" test. Loosen the
headset until you hear an extra vibration when you bounce the front wheel on the ground (a
couple inches will
do), and then tighten it ONLY ENOUGH SO THAT SOUND GOES AWAY. No more. You'll have to do this in
very small increments, and tighten the locknut against the cone each time. But it doesn't take
long, and will result in a headset that will last longer than you'd imagine.

That is not the reason these bearings fail. You may think this is the cause, but it is not. If it
were, the dimples in a tightly adjusted bearing would cease to grow as soon as they generated the
slightest clearance. In fact the pictures we just saw of rollers deeply indented in the races belie
that scenario.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Tim McNamara said:

I find the best way to adjust a headset is to remove the wheel and the stem. Not quick and
convenient, but it lets you feel exactly how much bearing drag there is before and after
tightening. Most of the time, I use the "rocking test": lock up the front brake and rock the bike
back and forth. Slop in the bearing adjustment is audible and tactile. The adjustment process is
the same- small increment until the slop *just* goes away. The bars should swing freely from lock
to lock. IME this also makes the bike easier to ride no-handed.

You don't need to go that far. Adjust the bearing until the chatter goes away and then hold the
bicycle off the floor tilted forward just enough to make the wheel tend to steer straight ahead and
see if it swings freely from side to side as you tilt the bicycle. It should do this if the bearing
is not damaged and the adjustment is not too tight. For folks who don't ride no-hands, this exercise
is mostly unnecessary.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Above all ant rest that has been said in this thread, I'll mention that one key to headset life is
to use fenders!

The lower part of the headset is very esposed to road schmutz thrown up by the front tire, and most
headsets are not well sealed in the downward direction there.

Bikes with fenders very rarely need headset replacement or even maintenance.

Full fenders, especially when used with a good front mud flap, also greatly improve the longevity of
drive-train components.

Sheldon "Fenders" Brown +--------------------------------------------+
| And the end of all our exploring | Will be to arrive where we started | And know the place for
| the first time. | --T.S. Eliot, Four Quartets |
+--------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

Sheldon Brown said:

Full fenders, especially when used with a good front mud flap, also greatly improve the longevity
of drive-train components.

Full fenders also can do wonders to extend the life of a good paint job.

==========================================================================

I have a 1974 bicycle with a steel campy headset and "index steering". I have heard that there
are some tricks to reduce or eliminate the brinelling (sp?) in these headsets. Here are some
possible tricks

1. Disassemble headset, rotate cups by 90 degrees, reassemble

2. Disassemble headset, rotate one set of cups by 1/2 of a bearing width, reassemble.

3. Remove headset retainer and add 1 ball bearing per race.

4. Remove headset retainer and remove 3 ball bearings per race.

5. Remove brake caliper and rotate the headset 1 full rotation to
relocate the bearings to new positions within the headset.

Which ones work ?? Which ones don't ?? Which ones have I missed ??

- Don Gillies San Diego, CA

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Above all ant rest that has been said in this thread, I'll mention that one key to headset life is
to use fenders!

The lower part of the headset is very esposed to road schmutz thrown up by the front tire, and
most headsets are not well sealed in the downward direction there.

Bikes with fenders very rarely need headset replacement or even maintenance.

Full fenders, especially when used with a good front mud flap, also greatly improve the longevity
of drive-train components.

Good point!

I once had a little neoprene cover for my headset (Lizardskin?). It really did seem to keep the
bearings clean a lot longer. I've seen pieces of innertube used as well. But my latest MTB headset
seems to have really good seals of its own.

Matt O.

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mike, are these cheapo headsets regreased at some interval of time, or not?

I'd like to pretend that my bike gets a lot more maintenance than it does... but the truth is
that, apart from proper adjustment, my headsets are very rarely taken apart and cleaned/regreased.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

Dear Mike,

They come apart?

Carl Fogel

Donald Gillies said:

I have a 1974 bicycle with a steel campy headset and "index steering". I have heard that there
are some tricks to reduce or eliminate the brinelling (sp?) in these headsets. Here are some
possible tricks

1. Disassemble headset, rotate cups by 90 degrees, reassemble

2. Disassemble headset, rotate one set of cups by 1/2 of a bearing width, reassemble.

3. Remove headset retainer and add 1 ball bearing per race.

4. Remove headset retainer and remove 3 ball bearings per race.

5. Remove brake caliper and rotate the headset 1 full rotation to
relocate the bearings to new positions within the headset.

Which ones work ?? Which ones don't ??

I've had good luck with #3 by adding as many balls as will easily fit without the retainer. I did
this on our tandem in 1978 after a new headset became indexed after only about a month of use due to
overtightening. It's still working fine today after discarding the retainer. This bike doesn't see
much use, but has at least 8000 miles since that time.

"Donald Gillies" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a 1974 bicycle with a steel campy headset and "index steering". I have heard that there
are some tricks to reduce or eliminate the brinelling (sp?) in these headsets. Here are some
possible tricks

1. Disassemble headset, rotate cups by 90 degrees, reassemble

2. Disassemble headset, rotate one set of cups by 1/2 of a bearing width, reassemble.

3. Remove headset retainer and add 1 ball bearing per race.

4. Remove headset retainer and remove 3 ball bearings per race.

5. Remove brake caliper and rotate the headset 1 full rotation to
relocate the bearings to new positions within the headset.

Which ones work ?? Which ones don't ?? Which ones have I missed ??

Jobst has already covered this, so read back through the thread in case you missed it.

The short answer is that, at least for a temporary fix, 1 and 3 will work, 2 is just a ridiculously
finicky version of 1, and 4 and 5 will definately not work.

Before suspension forks and headsets with good seals, we mountain bikers were always trying to
squeeze another 6 months out of a headset. Removing the cages and replacing them with a greater
number of loose balls is the first step. The second is rotating the lower cup 90 degrees. You can
probably do that a couple of times. However, the conditions that caused the first failure probably
still exist, so it won't last forever.

Matt O.

Sheldon Brown said:

Above all ant rest that has been said in this thread, I'll mention that one key to headset life is
to use fenders!

How is an electric guitar going to help things?

Quoted message said:

The lower part of the headset is very esposed to road schmutz thrown up by the front tire, and most
headsets are not well sealed in the downward direction there.

Oh, right, fenders. Well, would some sort of a cap work? I imagine it would be easier and cheaper
for people who otherwise don't need fenders.

Ooh, maybe I could just juice it up with hot-melt glue or silicone caulk.

Hey, what's up with the spelling inconsistency here: hawk, chalk, caulk

Quoted message said:

Bikes with fenders very rarely need headset replacement or even maintenance.

Full fenders, especially when used with a good front mud flap, also greatly improve the longevity
of drive-train components.

Even for fair-weather cyclists who don't like to get dirty while riding on the road?

Quoted message said:

Sheldon "Fenders" Brown

--
Rick "A bit silly tonight, I guess" Onanian

[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Tim McNamara said:

I find the best way to adjust a headset is to remove the wheel and the stem. Not quick and
convenient, but it lets you feel exactly how much bearing drag there is before and after
tightening. Most of the time, I use the "rocking test": lock up the front brake and rock the
bike back and forth. Slop in the bearing adjustment is audible and tactile. The adjustment
process is the same- small increment until the slop *just* goes away. The bars should swing
freely from lock to lock. IME this also makes the bike easier to ride no-handed.

I find that locking the front brake by squeezing the calipers together (not the brake lever), then
putting a finger and thumb fore and aft of the headset while rocking the bike back and forth,
tightening the cap until the play goes away, also works.

Quoted message said:

You don't need to go that far. Adjust the bearing until the chatter goes away and then hold the
bicycle off the floor tilted forward just enough to make the wheel tend to steer straight ahead
and see if it swings freely from side to side as you tilt the bicycle. It should do this if the
bearing is not damaged and the adjustment is not too tight. For folks who don't ride no-hands,
this exercise is mostly unnecessary.

The cables tend to hinder free movement of the handlebar though, unless you remove them prior to
headset adjustment.

Donald Gillies said:

Sheldon Brown said:

Full fenders, especially when used with a good front mud flap, also greatly improve the longevity
of drive-train components.

Full fenders also can do wonders to extend the life of a good paint job.

==========================================================================

I have a 1974 bicycle with a steel campy headset and "index steering". I have heard that there
are some tricks to reduce or eliminate the brinelling (sp?) in these headsets. Here are some
possible tricks

1. Disassemble headset, rotate cups by 90 degrees, reassemble

2. Disassemble headset, rotate one set of cups by 1/2 of a bearing width, reassemble.

3. Remove headset retainer and add 1 ball bearing per race.

4. Remove headset retainer and remove 3 ball bearings per race.

5. Remove brake caliper and rotate the headset 1 full rotation to
relocate the bearings to new positions within the headset.

Which ones work ?? Which ones don't ?? Which ones have I missed ??

That last one can only appear better for a couple of miles. The balls find their homes immediately.

Both removing/re-pressing cups and changing the ball count will yeild a condition where balls will
align in some places but not others. You'll get up to a season, maybe. Think about it - there's
damage done (material is missing) and the balls will align to some of the low spots immediately so
this can't be considered a "cure", just some breathing room while you shop for a headset.

Finally, you cannot possibly control where the cups get pressed, vis a vis bearing divot alignment.
I think your $100 bet would be safe of you asked someone to line up the divots exactly. So, whatever
your intent, (above, you mention 90 degreess and 180 degrees) the effect is a random alignment.

I consider this analagous to tightening a ruined crank so a customer feels he's had attention. He'll
gladly spend for the necessary parts on the next visit. Without the
psychodrama, your headset is shot. What the hell, it lasted a good long while! Short answer- Buy
a headset.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Matt O'Toole said:

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Above all ant rest that has been said in this thread, I'll mention that one key to headset life
is to use fenders!

The lower part of the headset is very esposed to road schmutz thrown up by the front tire, and
most headsets are not well sealed in the downward direction there.

Bikes with fenders very rarely need headset replacement or even maintenance.

Full fenders, especially when used with a good front mud flap, also greatly improve the longevity
of drive-train components.

Good point!

I once had a little neoprene cover for my headset (Lizardskin?). It really did seem to keep the
bearings clean a lot longer. I've seen pieces of innertube used as well. But my latest MTB headset
seems to have really good seals of its own.

I do the inner tube trick with the Tange roller bearing headset on my rain/winter bike. The bike got
totally encrusted with road salt last year and I didn't bother washing it until the spring (hey,
it's a CCM!) There was a fair bit of corrosion in different places - I had to hammer one of the
V-brake arms off of the canti stud even though it had been installed with grease just six months
prior. When I disassembled the headset, there was still plenty of grease top and bottom and no
contamination. Since I avoid doing more maintenance than is minimally necessary, this ghetto add-on
is quite worthwhile.

Jose Rizal said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I find the best way to adjust a headset is to remove the wheel and the stem. Not quick and
convenient, but it lets you feel exactly how much bearing drag there is before and after
tightening. Most of the time, I use the "rocking test": lock up the front brake and rock the
bike back and forth. Slop in the bearing adjustment is audible and tactile. The adjustment
process is the same- small increment until the slop *just* goes away. The bars should swing
freely from lock to lock. IME this also makes the bike easier to ride no-handed.

Quoted message said:

I find that locking the front brake by squeezing the calipers together (not the brake lever), then
putting a finger and thumb fore and aft of the headset while rocking the bike back and forth,
tightening the cap until the play goes away, also works.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You don't need to go that far. Adjust the bearing until the chatter goes away and then hold the
bicycle off the floor tilted forward just enough to make the wheel tend to steer straight ahead
and see if it swings freely from side to side as you tilt the bicycle. It should do this if the
bearing is not damaged and the adjustment is not too tight. For folks who don't ride no-hands,
this exercise is mostly unnecessary.

Quoted message said:

The cables tend to hinder free movement of the handlebar though, unless you remove them prior to
headset adjustment.

You have too many thick cables on your bars. Just the same, the way the wheel swings is diagnostic
even with cables because they also have a neutral position.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

If that were so, what causes dimpled head bearings, and why would King, Cane Creek and Shimano
spend so much design work to introduce compound bearings for this purpose?

I think you need to face up to the cause of these failures and not rely on failed practices.

What's so magical about my bike, or my riding, that my cheapie headsets last forever?

* I ride (quite a bit) in the rain.
* I rarely take apart my headset and regrease it; on average, probably once every two years.
* I have frequently used not only the supplied cheapie headset, but also faced the headtubes,
relying on the factory installation (heaven forbid!).

And yet my headsets roll on and on and on and on. The current one on my 5900 doesn't count, since
that's a semi-pressed-in job with cartridge bearings. But every other headset I've used (except
for an A9 on my tandem) has been regular old caged bearing, including a couple $10 Tange jobs. And
ever since I started properly adjusting them (using the bounce test) way back in... '76? No more
worn headsets.

Since I don't think there's anything magical about how I ride, I draw the conclusion that proper
adjustment is the key, and that most bad headsets out there were probably too tight at some point.

PS: Not to be cynical, but when you ask why somebody would come out with a new, often more
expensive design... I dunno, could it be that they want to differentiate themselves and make
money? That they think it's a lot more profitable to come out with an expensive product than to
tell people they don't need something new, they just need to learn how to properly adjust what
they have?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

I've destroyed a Shimano 1055 headset in 500 miles. They just weren't very good.

Quoted message said:

Several of my bikes over the years came with el-cheapo-bastardo headsets (much lower quality
than the '105 you had) which I said I'd get around to upgrading when they wore out. Trouble is,
even the very cheapest headset, when properly adjusted, will take forever to wear out. If I had
a headset that wore out in less than 30k miles, I don't remember it.

It's the design of the bearing that makes the difference. Campagnolo Record head bearings failed
as fast as any mainly because they were rigidly mounted bearings. The ones I mentioned, have
spherical alignment that allows the bearing to take up fork crown swivel in a plain bearing,
leaving the ball bearings to do the steering rotation only. That is where the difference lies.

Quoted message said:

The key is adjustment. Most (nearly all?) threaded headsets start their life out adjusted too
tightly, and this kills 'em. A new headset can be easily overtightened and still feel smooth.
The *only* way I've found to adjust a headset properly is with the "bounce" test. Loosen the
headset until you hear an extra vibration when you bounce the front wheel on the ground (a
couple inches will
do), and then tighten it ONLY ENOUGH SO THAT SOUND GOES AWAY. No more. You'll have to do this in
very small increments, and tighten the locknut against the cone each time. But it doesn't
take long, and will result in a headset that will last longer than you'd imagine.

That is not the reason these bearings fail. You may think this is the cause, but it is not. If it
were, the dimples in a tightly adjusted bearing would cease to grow as soon as they generated the
slightest clearance. In fact the pictures we just saw of rollers deeply indented in the races
belie that scenario.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]