Heart disease/cholesterol

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Anth, Oct 14, 2003.



  1. Anth

    Anth Guest

    The first and best known of these studies was the Framingham Heart Study,
    carried out in the town of Framingham, Massachusetts. Although Framingham is
    often associated with proof of the lipid hypothesis, the results of this
    40-year study have been a disappointment to its promoters. Investigators
    claimed that there was a 240% increase in "risk" of coronary heart disease,
    or CHD, between cholesterol levels of 182 and 244. But the actual rate of
    increase was only .13%. Between cholesterol levels of 244 and 294, the rate
    of CHD actually declined. Thus Framingham investigators found virtually no
    difference in heart disease for serum cholesterol levels between 182 and 284
    the vast majority of the U.S. population. Nor did they find that diets high
    in fat and cholesterol predisposed an individual to heart disease. As Dr.
    William Castelli, the current director of the Framingham project, admitted
    as recently as 1992: "In Framingham, Massachusetts, the more saturated fat
    one ate, the more cholesterol one ate, the more calories one ate, the lower
    people's serum cholesterol...we found that the people who ate the most
    cholesterol, ate the most saturated fat, ate the most calories weighed the
    least and were the most physically active."
    Anth
     
  2. Anth

    Anth Guest

    The application of a modicum of common sense could have prevented the
    massive expenditures lavished on the lipid hypothesis during the past 30
    years. The lipid hypothesis implies that animal fat consumption must have
    increased significantly since 1920 to correlate with the rise in heart
    disease, but in fact the consumption of saturated animal fats in America
    declined steadily during that period, while use of vegetable fats increased
    dramatically. Autopsy studies of vegetarians reveal that although they have
    lower serum cholesterol values than non-vegetarians, they have as much
    atherosclerosis as non-vegetarians.
    Anth
     
  3. doe

    doe Guest

    >Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
    >From: "Anth" [email protected]
    >Date: 10/14/2003 9:08 PM Mountain Daylight Time
    >Message-id: <[email protected]>


    >Autopsy studies of vegetarians reveal that although they have
    >lower serum cholesterol values than non-vegetarians, they have as much
    >atherosclerosis as non-vegetarians.


    Would you have a cite for the above .. ?

    This I find kind of hard to believe due to the recent finding of elevated iron
    levels and the association found to oxidized cholesterol ..

    Free Radic Biol Med. 2003 Oct 15;35(8):922-8. Links


    Serum ferritin concentration is associated with plasma levels of cholesterol
    oxidation products in man.

    Tuomainen TP, Diczfalusy U, Kaikkonen J, Nyyssonen K, Salonen JT.

    Research Institute of Public Health, University of Kuopio, Kuopio, Finland

    Cholesterol oxidation products, oxysterols, are thought to play a part in the
    initiation and development of human atherosclerotic lesions. Excessive body
    iron has been suggested to promote atherosclerosis and coronary heart disease
    through its pro-oxidative properties. In the present study, the associations
    between serum ferritin and plasma oxysterol concentrations were examined in 669
    eastern Finnish men. Serum ferritin concentration had statistically significant
    (p <.05) direct correlations with most of the measured oxysterols. In
    multivariate adjusted regression models, serum ferritin concentration predicted
    significantly the levels of 27-hydroxycholesterol (beta = 0.13, p <.001),
    7alpha-hydroxycholesterol (beta = 0.11, p =.005), 25-hydroxycholesterol (beta =
    0.10, p =.007), 7-ketocholesterol (beta = 0.10, p =.009), and
    7beta-hydroxycholesterol (beta = 0.10, p =.02). In conclusion, excess body
    iron, as assessed by serum ferritin, is associated with increased levels of
    circulating oxysterols, both of enzymatic and nonenzymatic origin, in man.

    PMID: 14556856 [PubMed - in process]

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ------

    Who loves ya.
    Tom

    Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
    Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking
     
  4. Anth

    Anth Guest

    Hi
    I imagine you would have to read the book 'The Cholesterol Myths'
    Any references would be in there.
    Anth

    "doe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > >Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
    > >From: "Anth" [email protected]
    > >Date: 10/14/2003 9:08 PM Mountain Daylight Time
    > >Message-id: <[email protected]>

    >
    > >Autopsy studies of vegetarians reveal that although they have
    > >lower serum cholesterol values than non-vegetarians, they have as much
    > >atherosclerosis as non-vegetarians.

    >
    > Would you have a cite for the above .. ?
    >
    > This I find kind of hard to believe due to the recent finding of elevated

    iron
    > levels and the association found to oxidized cholesterol ..
    >
    > Free Radic Biol Med. 2003 Oct 15;35(8):922-8. Links
    >
    >
    > Serum ferritin concentration is associated with plasma levels of

    cholesterol
    > oxidation products in man.
    >
    > Tuomainen TP, Diczfalusy U, Kaikkonen J, Nyyssonen K, Salonen JT.
    >
    > Research Institute of Public Health, University of Kuopio, Kuopio, Finland
    >
    > Cholesterol oxidation products, oxysterols, are thought to play a part in

    the
    > initiation and development of human atherosclerotic lesions. Excessive

    body
    > iron has been suggested to promote atherosclerosis and coronary heart

    disease
    > through its pro-oxidative properties. In the present study, the

    associations
    > between serum ferritin and plasma oxysterol concentrations were examined

    in 669
    > eastern Finnish men. Serum ferritin concentration had statistically

    significant
    > (p <.05) direct correlations with most of the measured oxysterols. In
    > multivariate adjusted regression models, serum ferritin concentration

    predicted
    > significantly the levels of 27-hydroxycholesterol (beta = 0.13, p <.001),
    > 7alpha-hydroxycholesterol (beta = 0.11, p =.005), 25-hydroxycholesterol

    (beta =
    > 0.10, p =.007), 7-ketocholesterol (beta = 0.10, p =.009), and
    > 7beta-hydroxycholesterol (beta = 0.10, p =.02). In conclusion, excess body
    > iron, as assessed by serum ferritin, is associated with increased levels

    of
    > circulating oxysterols, both of enzymatic and nonenzymatic origin, in man.
    >
    > PMID: 14556856 [PubMed - in process]
    >
    > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > ------
    >
    > Who loves ya.
    > Tom
    >
    > Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
    > Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
    > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING

    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking
    >
    >
    >
     
  5. Anth

    Anth Guest

    The International Atherosclerosis Project found that vegetarians had just as
    much atherosclerosis as meat eaters. (Lab Invest 1968 18:498)
    Might want to start there.
    http://www.bikescor.com/American diet.htm
    Atherosclerosis Project examined 22,000 corpses from 14 nations
    and found arterial plaque was the SAME in all parts of the world - in

    populations that consumed large amounts of fatty animal products and those

    who were largely vegetarian, in those with high rates of heart disease and

    populations with little or no heart disease. This points to the fact that

    thickening of the arterial wall with age is perhaps an unavoidable process

    yet does not necessarily develope into clinical heart disease.

    You might also try http://www.dr-rath-research.org/

    Anth
     
  6. Hawki63

    Hawki63 Guest

    >Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
    >From: "Anth" [email protected]
    >Date: 10/15/2003 9:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    >Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >
    >The International Atheroscle


    hmmmm....Anth

    so I can go back to enjoying ice cream?? ie it doesn't really make a difference
    what the cholesterol number is??

    which of course I have known....isn't it at least 50% of folks with first heart
    attack have low or normal lipid levels??

    didn't know about the veg thing tho...interesting factoid...

    thanks
    hawki
     
  7. Anth

    Anth Guest

    Well I certainly don't worry about it.
    Anth

    "Hawki63" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > >Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
    > >From: "Anth" [email protected]
    > >Date: 10/15/2003 9:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    > >Message-id: <[email protected]>
    > >
    > >The International Atheroscle

    >
    > hmmmm....Anth
    >
    > so I can go back to enjoying ice cream?? ie it doesn't really make a

    difference
    > what the cholesterol number is??
    >
    > which of course I have known....isn't it at least 50% of folks with first

    heart
    > attack have low or normal lipid levels??
    >
    > didn't know about the veg thing tho...interesting factoid...
    >
    > thanks
    > hawki
     
  8. Hawki63

    Hawki63 Guest

    >Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
    >From: "Anth" [email protected]
    >Date: 10/15/2003 2:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    >Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >
    >Well I certainly don't worry about it.


    and your fave flavor is????


    hawki
     
  9. Anth

    Anth Guest

    Vanilla with lot of cherries and chocolate chips ;)
    Anth

    "Hawki63" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > >Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
    > >From: "Anth" [email protected]
    > >Date: 10/15/2003 2:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    > >Message-id: <[email protected]>
    > >
    > >Well I certainly don't worry about it.

    >
    > and your fave flavor is????
    >
    >
    > hawki
     
  10. doe

    doe Guest

    >Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
    >From: "Anth" [email protected]
    >Date: 10/15/2003 10:19 AM Mountain Daylight Time
    >Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >
    >The International Atherosclerosis Project found that vegetarians had just as
    >much atherosclerosis as meat eaters. (Lab Invest 1968 18:498)
    >Might want to start there.
    >http://www.bikescor.com/American diet.htm
    >Atherosclerosis Project examined 22,000 corpses from 14 nations
    >and found arterial plaque was the SAME in all parts of the world - in
    >
    >populations that consumed large amounts of fatty animal products and those
    >
    >who were largely vegetarian, in those with high rates of heart disease and
    >
    >populations with little or no heart disease. This points to the fact that
    >
    >thickening of the arterial wall with age is perhaps an unavoidable process
    >
    >yet does not necessarily develope into clinical heart disease.
    >
    >You might also try http://www.dr-rath-research.org/
    >
    >Anth
    >


    I guess it is all a matter of who one uses as a reference ..?

    <<snip>>
    Studies also show that meat- eaters have higher rates of atherosclerosis and
    fatal heart diseases. For example, the average non-vegetarian runs a fifty
    percent risk of having a heart attack; whereas, a vegetarian runs only fifteen
    percent risk of having a heart attack (Jainism 11).
    <<snip>>

    Who loves ya.
    Tom
    Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
    Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking
     
  11. Hawki63

    Hawki63 Guest

    >Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
    >From: "Anth" [email protected]
    >Date: 10/16/2003 1:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    >Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >
    >Vanilla with lot of cherries and chocolate chips ;)


    ohhhh....soundssss delicis




    hawki
     
  12. Anth

    Anth Guest

    Yeah but both have similar instances of atherosclerosis.
    Anth

    "doe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > >Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
    > >From: "Anth" [email protected]
    > >Date: 10/15/2003 10:19 AM Mountain Daylight Time
    > >Message-id: <[email protected]>
    > >
    > >The International Atherosclerosis Project found that vegetarians had just

    as
    > >much atherosclerosis as meat eaters. (Lab Invest 1968 18:498)
    > >Might want to start there.
    > >http://www.bikescor.com/American diet.htm
    > >Atherosclerosis Project examined 22,000 corpses from 14 nations
    > >and found arterial plaque was the SAME in all parts of the world - in
    > >
    > >populations that consumed large amounts of fatty animal products and

    those
    > >
    > >who were largely vegetarian, in those with high rates of heart disease

    and
    > >
    > >populations with little or no heart disease. This points to the fact that
    > >
    > >thickening of the arterial wall with age is perhaps an unavoidable

    process
    > >
    > >yet does not necessarily develope into clinical heart disease.
    > >
    > >You might also try http://www.dr-rath-research.org/
    > >
    > >Anth
    > >

    >
    > I guess it is all a matter of who one uses as a reference ..?
    >
    > <<snip>>
    > Studies also show that meat- eaters have higher rates of atherosclerosis

    and
    > fatal heart diseases. For example, the average non-vegetarian runs a fifty
    > percent risk of having a heart attack; whereas, a vegetarian runs only

    fifteen
    > percent risk of having a heart attack (Jainism 11).
    > <<snip>>
    >
    > Who loves ya.
    > Tom
    > Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
    > Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
    > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING

    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking
    >
    >
    >
     
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