Help needed

"Mike Gorton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

When starting off (or going uphill), you inevitably put more down force on
the pedal. (Very) often of late, the pedal I'm starting off on "gives
way" under my foot. i.e. my foot slams down and pushes the pedal to the
floor. i.e. for a split second, it's like there's no resistance. When

it

Quoted message said:

does this, the bike makes a loud crunching sound like the chain has come

off

Quoted message said:

the cogs or something.

Sounds to me as if the chain is slipping on a rear cog, if it is then the
cure is a new chain and cassette. Don't waste your time replacing only one
of the two.
Other, less likely, causes are: Pawls slipping inside the freehub, chain
slipping on the inner chainring and possibly, but unlikely without other
symptoms, mal-adjusted rear mech (sorry I can't spell deraileur).

--
Pete
http:[email hidden]/P

Mike Gorton said:

Hi,

I'm experiencing a problem with my bike and wondered if anyone can help
identifying the cause (and a possible solution). It's kind of difficult to
describe, and I appreciate there could be different causes, but any thoughts
would be appreciated.

Particularly this problem affects the bike when going uphill, or setting off
....

When starting off (or going uphill), you inevitably put more down force on
the pedal. (Very) often of late, the pedal I'm starting off on "gives
way" under my foot. i.e. my foot slams down and pushes the pedal to the
floor. i.e. for a split second, it's like there's no resistance. When it
does this, the bike makes a loud crunching sound like the chain has come off
the cogs or something.

However, everything appears normal when I stop. The pedals seem very
secure, the chain looks fine, etc. I'm just wondering if it's something
inside the pedal that is slipping (or giving) away when I apply a proper
force down on it. So your foot is expecting some resistance, but crashes
down when the pedal gives out. As you can imagine, it's impossible (and
knackering) to continue.

For all my efforts to try and see what's going on, I can't see anything when
I'm riding.

New to the group, so apologies if I'm not on the spot with terminology etc.
I'll post extra info. if I'm too ambiguous with my description.

Bike is a Claud Butler Stone River.

Thanks,
Mike.

You don't say what general condition / state of maintenance the bike is
in. The problem you describe sounds like a chain issue, but could be
due to several things. First off, make sure the chain is clean and
properly lubricated and has no sticking links (this happens when one or
more sections of the chain don't flow freely but stick together because
there is dirt in the bushings or the plates are too tight.) Run the
chain slowly backwards by turning the pedals and watch for any places
where the chain jumps or skips in the rear derailleur. If this happens,
clean the sticking links and work them with your fingers to loosen them
off, then run the chain again. If it runs smoothly, try pedalling to
see if this has fixed the problem.

--
Brian G

Mike Gorton said:

When starting off (or going uphill), you inevitably put more down force on
the pedal. (Very) often of late, the pedal I'm starting off on "gives
way" under my foot. i.e. my foot slams down and pushes the pedal to the
floor. i.e. for a split second, it's like there's no resistance. When it
does this, the bike makes a loud crunching sound like the chain has come off
the cogs or something.

Sounds exactly like worn rear cogs, but possibly front chain-rings.
Is it worse in some gears and absent in others?

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Quoted message said:

Mike Gorton said:

Hi,

I'm experiencing a problem with my bike and wondered if anyone can
help identifying the cause (and a possible solution). It's kind of
difficult to describe, and I appreciate there could be different
causes, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

Particularly this problem affects the bike when going uphill, or
setting off ....

When starting off (or going uphill), you inevitably put more down
force on the pedal. (Very) often of late, the pedal I'm starting
off on "gives way" under my foot. i.e. my foot slams down and
pushes the pedal to the floor. i.e. for a split second, it's like
there's no resistance. When it does this, the bike makes a loud
crunching sound like the chain has come off the cogs or something.

However, everything appears normal when I stop. The pedals seem
very secure, the chain looks fine, etc. I'm just wondering if it's
something inside the pedal that is slipping (or giving) away when I
apply a proper force down on it. So your foot is expecting some
resistance, but crashes down when the pedal gives out. As you can
imagine, it's impossible (and knackering) to continue.

For all my efforts to try and see what's going on, I can't see
anything when I'm riding.

New to the group, so apologies if I'm not on the spot with
terminology etc. I'll post extra info. if I'm too ambiguous with my
description. Bike is a Claud Butler Stone River.

Thanks,
Mike.

You don't say what general condition / state of maintenance the bike
is in. The problem you describe sounds like a chain issue, but could
be due to several things. First off, make sure the chain is clean and
properly lubricated and has no sticking links (this happens when one
or more sections of the chain don't flow freely but stick together
because there is dirt in the bushings or the plates are too tight.)
Run the chain slowly backwards by turning the pedals and watch for
any places where the chain jumps or skips in the rear derailleur. If
this happens, clean the sticking links and work them with your
fingers to loosen them off, then run the chain again. If it runs
smoothly, try pedalling to see if this has fixed the problem.

Could also happen if you have recently but a new chain on the bike
It will slip and jump on old worn gear teeth

Tim

Hi,

The bike is now (just) 12 months old, but I'd say it's been used for only
half that time. I'd say it's generally in above average condition.

My initial thoughts were something to do with the chain slipping over the
teeth, but it's very hard to spot if anything is happening like that when
pushing off. I've given the chain a once over, but I'll do it again being
more deliberate and methodical in the checking.

Thanks for answers so far - much appreciated.

Mike.

"Tim" <no [email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mike Gorton said:

Hi,

I'm experiencing a problem with my bike and wondered if anyone can
help identifying the cause (and a possible solution). It's kind of
difficult to describe, and I appreciate there could be different
causes, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

Particularly this problem affects the bike when going uphill, or
setting off ....

When starting off (or going uphill), you inevitably put more down
force on the pedal. (Very) often of late, the pedal I'm starting
off on "gives way" under my foot. i.e. my foot slams down and
pushes the pedal to the floor. i.e. for a split second, it's like
there's no resistance. When it does this, the bike makes a loud
crunching sound like the chain has come off the cogs or something.

However, everything appears normal when I stop. The pedals seem
very secure, the chain looks fine, etc. I'm just wondering if it's
something inside the pedal that is slipping (or giving) away when I
apply a proper force down on it. So your foot is expecting some
resistance, but crashes down when the pedal gives out. As you can
imagine, it's impossible (and knackering) to continue.

For all my efforts to try and see what's going on, I can't see
anything when I'm riding.

New to the group, so apologies if I'm not on the spot with
terminology etc. I'll post extra info. if I'm too ambiguous with my
description. Bike is a Claud Butler Stone River.

Thanks,
Mike.

You don't say what general condition / state of maintenance the bike
is in. The problem you describe sounds like a chain issue, but could
be due to several things. First off, make sure the chain is clean and
properly lubricated and has no sticking links (this happens when one
or more sections of the chain don't flow freely but stick together
because there is dirt in the bushings or the plates are too tight.)
Run the chain slowly backwards by turning the pedals and watch for
any places where the chain jumps or skips in the rear derailleur. If
this happens, clean the sticking links and work them with your
fingers to loosen them off, then run the chain again. If it runs
smoothly, try pedalling to see if this has fixed the problem.

Could also happen if you have recently but a new chain on the bike
It will slip and jump on old worn gear teeth

Tim

"Mike Gorton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

The bike is now (just) 12 months old, but I'd say it's been used for only
half that time. I'd say it's generally in above average condition.

My initial thoughts were something to do with the chain slipping over the
teeth, but it's very hard to spot if anything is happening like that when
pushing off. I've given the chain a once over, but I'll do it again
being
more deliberate and methodical in the checking.

It sounds like the chain slipping. One of the standard problems with chain
slipping is that it only happens under load, so it can be quite difficult to
see in the workshop (/garage/living room..)

If it's one of the front rings, you can sometimes see the chain moving a bit
if you push on the pedal, such that it's only one or two of the top teeth
which actually take the load.

I've not played the equivalent game with the back.

cheers,
clive

in message <[email hidden]>, Mike Gorton

(') said:

Hi,

I'm experiencing a problem with my bike and wondered if anyone can help
identifying the cause (and a possible solution). It's kind of
difficult to describe, and I appreciate there could be different
causes, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

Particularly this problem affects the bike when going uphill, or
setting off ....

When starting off (or going uphill), you inevitably put more down force
on
the pedal. (Very) often of late, the pedal I'm starting off on
"gives
way" under my foot. i.e. my foot slams down and pushes the pedal to
the
floor. i.e. for a split second, it's like there's no resistance.
When it does this, the bike makes a loud crunching sound like the chain
has come off the cogs or something.

However, everything appears normal when I stop. The pedals seem very
secure, the chain looks fine, etc. I'm just wondering if it's
something inside the pedal that is slipping (or giving) away when I
apply a proper
force down on it. So your foot is expecting some resistance, but
crashes
down when the pedal gives out. As you can imagine, it's impossible
(and knackering) to continue.

The symptoms you describe sound very like what happens to a poor quality
rear derailleur that's past it's best. As tension comes on the chain,
the pantograph twists, causing the chain to shift up a gear. It's while
the chain is actually shifting that there is no resistance from the
pedals.

Check out the rest of the transmission, of course, but my bet is this
would be cured by replacing the rear derailleur with a new (and,
ideally, better quality) mech.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Friends don't send friends HTML formatted emails.

Ian Smith said:

Mike Gorton said:

When starting off (or going uphill), you inevitably put more down force on
the pedal. (Very) often of late, the pedal I'm starting off on "gives
way" under my foot. i.e. my foot slams down and pushes the pedal to the
floor. i.e. for a split second, it's like there's no resistance. When it
does this, the bike makes a loud crunching sound like the chain has come off
the cogs or something.

Sounds exactly like worn rear cogs, but possibly front chain-rings.
Is it worse in some gears and absent in others?

regards, Ian SMith

This may be a red herring, but when you stop, do you stop with
right/left pedal (whichever you start off on) at the lower limit of
its travel, then 'freewheel backwards' to raise it ? If your chain is
out of alignment or worn, this can cause it to slip over the rear
cogs, riding to the next smaller sprocket, so that when you set off it
will try to re-align itself, with the symptoms you describe.

Tony

It could be a slipping freewheel, though they usually wouldn't make
much noise

Mike Gorton said:

My initial thoughts were something to do with the chain slipping over
the teeth, but it's very hard to spot if anything is happening like
that when pushing off.

It is always hard to actually see it happening but one gets to know what
it feels like. But only a really high-mileage cyclist would have worn out
the chain & sprockets in six months of use. Check for stiff links first.
If not that then I would suspect worn chain/cogs/rings or the freewheel,
or gear cable or shifter if the chain comes out of gear at all (even if
just for a moment).

~PB

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Mike Gorton

(') said:

Hi,

I'm experiencing a problem with my bike and wondered if anyone can help
identifying the cause (and a possible solution). It's kind of
difficult to describe, and I appreciate there could be different
causes, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

Particularly this problem affects the bike when going uphill, or
setting off ....

When starting off (or going uphill), you inevitably put more down force
on
the pedal. (Very) often of late, the pedal I'm starting off on
"gives
way" under my foot. i.e. my foot slams down and pushes the pedal to
the
floor. i.e. for a split second, it's like there's no resistance.
When it does this, the bike makes a loud crunching sound like the chain
has come off the cogs or something.

However, everything appears normal when I stop. The pedals seem very
secure, the chain looks fine, etc. I'm just wondering if it's
something inside the pedal that is slipping (or giving) away when I
apply a proper
force down on it. So your foot is expecting some resistance, but
crashes
down when the pedal gives out. As you can imagine, it's impossible
(and knackering) to continue.

The symptoms you describe sound very like what happens to a poor quality
rear derailleur that's past it's best. As tension comes on the chain,
the pantograph twists, causing the chain to shift up a gear. It's while
the chain is actually shifting that there is no resistance from the
pedals.

Check out the rest of the transmission, of course, but my bet is this
would be cured by replacing the rear derailleur with a new (and,
ideally, better quality) mech.

Or it could simply be an out of adjustment mech, too. Do the gears change
smoothly and promptly both up and down, and are the gears more or less
silent when you're just riding along at a steady pace, or do they click
and clatter - err, it's hard to describe the sound, but it's not a
smooth noise at all.

--
Nobby

Peter B said:

Sounds to me as if the chain is slipping on a rear cog, if it is then the
cure is a new chain and cassette. Don't waste your time replacing only one
of the two.
Other, less likely, causes are: Pawls slipping inside the freehub, chain
slipping on the inner chainring and possibly, but unlikely without other
symptoms, mal-adjusted rear mech (sorry I can't spell deraileur).

I had a chain slipping on my bike when it was new.
Turned out there was a spacer missing at the rear hub,
and the cassette moved side to side slightly.
Diagnosed and fixed by Wharf Cycles.

I would guess this case is one of the above though.

On 07/19/2005 20:48:52 Ian Smith said:

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Mike Gorton <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When starting off (or going uphill), you inevitably put more down force
on the pedal. (Very) often of late, the pedal I'm starting off on "gives
way" under my foot. i.e. my foot slams down and pushes the pedal to the
floor. i.e. for a split second, it's like there's no resistance. When
it does this, the bike makes a loud crunching sound like the chain has
come off the cogs or something.

Quoted message said:

Sounds exactly like worn rear cogs, but possibly front chain-rings. Is it
worse in some gears and absent in others?

Quoted message said:

regards, Ian SMith

Or it could be the freewheel, it would be worth popping the chain off the
rear sprockets, and rotating the sprockets backwards and forwards a bit
to see if the freewheel always takes up straight away.

--

Buck

I would rather be out on my Catrike

http://www.catrike.co.uk

Buck said:

Or it could be the freewheel, it would be worth popping the chain off
the rear sprockets, and rotating the sprockets backwards and forwards
a bit to see if the freewheel always takes up straight away.

It is worth doing to see if the freewheel is obviously faulty but it won't
prove it's definitely OK as they can start to fail intermittently
sometimes (freehub types, at least).

~PB

On 07/20/2005 12:20:38 'Pete Biggs said:

Buck wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Or it could be the freewheel, it would be worth popping the chain off the
rear sprockets, and rotating the sprockets backwards and forwards a bit
to see if the freewheel always takes up straight away.

Quoted message said:

It is worth doing to see if the freewheel is obviously faulty but it won't
prove it's definitely OK as they can start to fail intermittently
sometimes (freehub types, at least).

True, often the fault will only show under extreme loading.

--

Buck

I would rather be out on my Catrike

http://www.catrike.co.uk

Tony (and all),

First off, thanks for everyone taking a moment to reply. Cheers.

Sometimes I do freewheel backwards to get my 'start off' pedal back to the
top. When I do that, it is more often because I'm setting off on the upward
incline - generally easier (for me) to do that rather than going the half
pedal forward.

That's not generall the case tho. Since I posted my question last night,
this 'crashing' down of the pedal is I more obvious now, and it's happening
just as much on the flat as the incline.

I've had a real good look at the cogs, chain and freewheel. I've removed
the
chain and to my eyes, things look pretty much in decent nick. Bit grubby,
but nothing apparently worn or out of line. At least it's given me a bit
of
an insight into the mechanics of the bike and that's all for the good I
guess.
That asides, I've drawn a blank.

I'm taking it back to the local bike shop where I got it from tomoz, and
they said
they'll give it a free service for me which is good of them coz I bought it
last
July. They were very helpful when I bought thebike so I'll see how helpful
they can be now.

I'll repost tomoz evening once they've given me the diagnosis.

Thanks all (for now). All replies have been valued.
Regards, Mike.

"Tony" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ian Smith said:

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Mike Gorton <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When starting off (or going uphill), you inevitably put more down

force on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the pedal. (Very) often of late, the pedal I'm starting off on

"gives

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

way" under my foot. i.e. my foot slams down and pushes the pedal to

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

floor. i.e. for a split second, it's like there's no resistance.

When it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

does this, the bike makes a loud crunching sound like the chain has

come off

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the cogs or something.

Sounds exactly like worn rear cogs, but possibly front chain-rings.
Is it worse in some gears and absent in others?

regards, Ian SMith

This may be a red herring, but when you stop, do you stop with
right/left pedal (whichever you start off on) at the lower limit of
its travel, then 'freewheel backwards' to raise it ? If your chain is
out of alignment or worn, this can cause it to slip over the rear
cogs, riding to the next smaller sprocket, so that when you set off it
will try to re-align itself, with the symptoms you describe.

Tony