Help?! Open Checkbook, New Wheels!!

padawan said:

I know the clincher/tublular battle has raged on in other posts, I just like to hear others' opinions (which is why I'm on a public forum I guess).

I have both, but I run the tubies (Reynolds Stratus DV's) the majority of the time (about 85% of the time, since I bought 'em). I didn't want CF clinchers because I'm just not sold on them, right now, as far as the weight, technology, and construction methods go right now. Note that the Stratus Clinchers are full CF clinchers. There were no deep rimmed CF wheels with alloy brake tracks that interested me.

As for using a tubie vs using a clincher goes, I don't find one any better or worse than the other, at least from my experience. Sure I can patch a clicher tube out on the road, but with the tubie, I can throw on a spare tubie or get out a can of Vittoria Pitstop. That's always worked for me. And I don't think patching tubie's is such a chore. I wait until I've got a few of flatted, and then when a crappy day comes along, I get out the TV remote, a six-pack of Stella Artois, some Nacho Cheese Doritos, and I have myself a tubie patchin' good time. It's so very zen. Really.

alienator said:

+1. My Reynolds Stratus DV's, after 2000+ miles, are still as true as when I first mounted 'em. I'd have sold 'em if they needed to be trued frequently. Needing frequent truing is not the sign of a quality wheelset.

My other wheels, with around 3000 miles on 'em, a custom set from Ligero wheels, needed a little touch up to bring 'em back into true, but that was only after a car forced me off the road, onto the shoulder, and into a roughly 1" wide and 2" deep crack in the pavement. Flatted both tires, gouged the hell out of the rims and brake surfaces, but only mussed the trueness a bit. Across 8 spokes (out of 24 2x) the wheel was 1/16" + a red hair out of true.

My Velomax(now Easton) Circuit wheels have over 12K miles on them and haven't been touched either. The hubs and rims aren't really deluxe on these, but the straight-pull spokes and high,even tension seem to make a very strong and stable wheel. Each wheel has maybe 1/16 to 1/8 lateral runout; hasn't really changed since new.

I like to run wheels "as-built" for as long as possible, and try to resist any temptation to true or touch them up to eliminate all runout. I think even spoke tension is more important than a slight bit of lateral or radial runout anyway. My experience with 32 spoke wheels has been that when it starts to need truing, the end (broken spokes and/or rim) is near.

padawan said:

Hey JTE83,

Can I ask why you're thinking clinchers as opposed to tubulars when you buy your 404s? I'm faced with the same decision but I figure since I'll probably only use the 404s for racing (aside from the occasional "show off the bling" ride) I figured I go with tubulars to take advantage of the (minor) additional weight savings and road feel.

I know the clincher/tublular battle has raged on in other posts, I just like to hear others' opinions (which is why I'm on a public forum I guess).

But I have to agree, there's nothing like a set of 404s to make a bike look fast.

Pad

Well, I'm gonna use the Zipp 404s for everyday use as well as racing. So I want to avoid the hassle of tubulars. Ideally I thought Tufos were best but a study found that they have high rolling resistance. So a clincher Zipp 404 with low rolling resistance tires may be faster that a tubular one (except on acceleration). Here's a list of tire rolling resistance data I got from the web --

here's the list with the clincher and tubular test data included:

Tire Crr

Deda Tre Giro d'Italia 0.0038
Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX 0.0039
Michelin Pro 2 Race 0.0042
Vittoria Diamante Pro Rain 0.0044
Michelin Megamium 2 0.0047
Pariba Revolution 0.0048
*Veloflex Carbon (Tubular) 0.0049 $79 only in black
Michelin Carbon 0.0050
*Gommitalia Route du Nord (Tubular) 0.0050
Panaracer Stradius Pro 0.0051
Schwalbe Stelvio Plus 0.0052
*Gommitalia Platinum (Tubular) 0.0053
*Vittoria Corsa Evo CX (Tubular) 0.0054
Schwalbe Stelvio Evolution Front 0.0056
Continental GP Force (rear specific) 0.0057
Hutchinson Fusion 0.0057
Schwalbe Stelvio Evolution Rear 0.0057
*Vittoria Corsa Evo KS (Tubular) 0.0057
Continental Ultra GatorSkin 0.0058
Ritchey Pro Race Slick WCS 0.0058
Schwalbe Stelvio 0.0059
*Continental Competition (Tubular) 0.0059
*Veloflex Roubaix (Tubular) 0.0059
*Contintal Podium (Tubular) 0.0060
Specialized S-Works Mondo 0.0061
Continental GP 3000 0.0067
Hutchinson Top Speed 0.0069
*Schwalbe Stelvio (Tubular) 0.0069
Continental GP Attack (front specific) 0.0073
*Tufo Elite Jet (Tubular) 0.0073
*Schwalbe Montello 300 (Tubular) 0.0075
*Tufo Hi-Composite Carbon (Tubular) 0.0077Some people were arguing that you can attain the same low rolling resistance with tbulars by using track glue which it seems dries stiff comparing to road glue that droes ''gummy''.

A CF Soloist just looks best with Zipp 404s !

alienator said:

Ritchey WCS Carbon wheels? And their questionable hubs? Nah. Save yourself the pain and just have a set of wheels built up with the quality hub of your choice, the spokes that trip your trigger, and Zipp 360 rims.

I got the Ritchey 05 Protocol with the fixed hub and they work fine. They seem low friction too. And Protocols are better than the Eurus or Ksyrium SLs.

My attack/force combo isn't looking to good. I might have to go pro2race for the good wheels now.

JTE83 said:

I got the Ritchey 05 Protocol with the fixed hub and they work fine. They seem low friction too. And Protocols are better than the Eurus or Ksyrium SLs.

Yeah, the Eurus aren't really aero, but they're not supposed to be, either. They do fare, uhm, fairly well, though, in aero tests.

Ksyrium is not a word that should be associated at all with anything having to do with good aerodynamics.

alienator said:

Yeah, the Eurus aren't really aero, but they're not supposed to be, either. They do fare, uhm, fairly well, though, in aero tests.

Ksyrium is not a word that should be associated at all with anything having to do with good aerodynamics.

Jsyriums are a joke. Anyone that puts spokes that thick and calls them aero bladed is doing something wrong.

I just took my Neuvation R28 aero for their first 100km (close to anyway). They performed admirably for a $330AUD set of wheels. I'd be interested in seeing what the aero data is on them. Their spokes are real blades.

JTE83 said:

Here's a list of tire rolling resistance data I got from the web -

Deda Tre Giro d'Italia 0.0038
Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX 0.0039
Michelin Pro 2 Race 0.0042
etc...

Do you have the link for this data?

Thanks.

Meek One said:

Do you have the link for this data?

Thanks.

It's from another forum --

http://www.fixedgearfever.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1010&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

JTE83 said:

It's from another forum --

http://www.fixedgearfever.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1010&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Thanks.

dhk2 said:

To me, a "high end" wheelset should perform for years without any attention. Why else would you spend a huge sum on wheels?

Thats a wrong attitude at any level of wheels you should be checking them at doing regular maintennence. Checking for trueness is not a long job,

That said if I had a set of wheels that kept coming out of true, they would be sold as well.

alienator said:

I didn't want CF clinchers because I'm just not sold on them, right now, as far as the weight, technology, and construction methods go right now.

That's my concern about CF clincher wheels. I look at the bond between the CF and the aluminum rim as being another possible point of failure. While there may not be many (any) cases of failure on Zipp 404 clinchers (I generally trust Zipp as a brand and I'm pretty sure they build quality stuff), I just wouldn't want to take the chance. When I can afford my aero-race wheels, I'll go tubular.

Alienator, thanks also for strengthening my resolve to buy (or maybe even make) custom wheels designed to my own specs. I've felt for a while now that you could get far better value and a far better end product going that route.

My only challenge now is finding (or becoming) a reliable wheel builder. I'm in Toronto, Canada and would prefer to deal face to face with someone. I've found it's a bit of a hassle and some additional cost (shipping, customs, waiting time, etc.) when dealing with US suppliers if something does go wrong. You know of any up here? 😉

Pad