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High heart rate

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
25 March 2004
Last activity
28 March 2004
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Technology Grap
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  1. Hi,

    I am 50 years old and have recently bought a heart rate
    monitor, not for fitness training really but because I can't
    resist gadgets.

    I have found to my surprise that on a one hour cycle ride I
    can average 185bpm and for a short time I can get this up to
    215bpm. I know that I am keeping up a pretty decent pace
    because nobody ever overtakes me and in fact I get a pretty
    childish thrill from overtaking "kids" half my age.

    According to various web sites and the information supplied
    with the equipment my Maximum Heart Rate should be 220 - 50
    = 170 and if I am a super athlete I should be training at
    90% of this i.e. 153bpm.

    I have always had natural fitness but can hardly be
    described as an athlete.

    Is this dangerous? Is my heart going to explode or suddenly
    stop functioning? Of course I have been doing this for years
    but without knowing how fast it was going.

    My heart rate at rest is 60 - 65bpm and I am a bit
    overweight.

    Thanks in advance for any advice.

    Kind regards James

  2. Technology Graphics said:

    Hi,

    I am 50 years old and have recently bought a heart rate
    monitor, not for fitness training really but because I
    can't resist gadgets.

    I have found to my surprise that on a one hour cycle ride
    I can average 185bpm and for a short time I can get this
    up to 215bpm. I know that I am keeping up a pretty decent
    pace because nobody ever overtakes me and in fact I get a
    pretty childish thrill from overtaking "kids" half my age.

    According to various web sites and the information
    supplied with the equipment my Maximum Heart Rate should
    be 220 - 50 = 170 and if I am a super athlete I should be
    training at 90% of this i.e. 153bpm.

    I have always had natural fitness but can hardly be
    described as an athlete.

    Is this dangerous?

    No.

    Quoted message said:

    Is my heart going to explode or suddenly stop functioning?

    Not because of intense exercise if your heart is normal.

    Quoted message said:

    Of course I have been doing this for years but without
    knowing how fast it was going.

    My heart rate at rest is 60 - 65bpm and I am a bit
    overweight.

    Thanks in advance for any advice.

    You are welcome to the information, James.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  3. "Technology Graphics" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi,

    I am 50 years old and have recently bought a heart rate
    monitor, not for fitness training really but because I
    can't resist gadgets.

    I have found to my surprise that on a one hour cycle ride
    I can average 185bpm and for a short time I can get this
    up to 215bpm. I know that I am keeping up a pretty decent
    pace because nobody ever overtakes me and in fact I get a
    pretty childish thrill from overtaking "kids" half my age.

    According to various web sites and the information
    supplied with the equipment my Maximum Heart Rate should
    be 220 - 50 = 170 and if I am a super athlete I should be
    training at 90% of this i.e. 153bpm.

    I have always had natural fitness but can hardly be
    described as an athlete.

    Is this dangerous? Is my heart going to explode or
    suddenly stop functioning? Of course I have been doing
    this for years but without knowing how fast it was going.

    My heart rate at rest is 60 - 65bpm and I am a bit
    overweight.

    Thanks in advance for any advice.

    Kind regards James

    If you have some way of doing it, I would also try to
    confirm the heart readings. If they smoothly go up and down
    that is an indication they might be right. If you see big
    jumps, and especially if you see erratic ones, be
    suspicious.

    Bill

  4. It seems to me I heard somewhere that Technology Graphics wrote in
    article <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    I am 50 years old and have recently bought a heart rate
    monitor, not for fitness training really but because I
    can't resist gadgets.

    Quoted message said:

    I have found to my surprise that on a one hour cycle ride I
    can average 185bpm and for a short time I can get this up
    to 215bpm. I know that I am keeping up a pretty decent pace
    because nobody ever overtakes me and in fact I get a pretty
    childish thrill from overtaking "kids" half my age.

    Quoted message said:

    According to various web sites and the information supplied
    with the equipment my Maximum Heart Rate should be 220 - 50
    = 170 and if I am a super athlete I should be training at
    90% of this i.e. 153bpm.

    That formula is apt to be very inaccurate for finding the
    maximum heart rate of any one individual. It is at best a
    population approach, and individuals may fall anywhere along
    a wide curve. Differences of one standard deviation or more
    are not uncommon.

    FWIW, in sports newsgroups I have also read suggestions that
    the formula originated with a group of physical therapists
    who needed a way to approximate MHR, and essentially
    developed the formula off the tops of their heads from their
    own experience.

    There are other better supported formulas that may work
    better for individuals. True MHR for a given individual
    probably is best derived from stress testing; some specific
    hard workouts (runners in particular have developed some)
    may give close approximations.

    Percentage of MHR may better be calculated by adjusting
    for resting heart rate, so that the range of variation is
    taken into account. For instance, a person with a resting
    rate of 50 and a maximum of 200 has a ROV [my term for
    this illustration only] of 150 bpm, and would have a
    different 90% level than a person with a resting rate of
    30 and a ROV of
    170. The formula is ((MRH-ROV) x target %) + ROV. Since
    resting heart rate is somewhat related to fitness
    level this formula to some extent adjusts for that
    difference.

    My suggestion, though, is to use the HRM to find your
    current level of performance without regard to *MHR*. From
    that base it's easy to increase or decrease working HR
    targets without trying to apply a formula without knowing
    all the variables.

    I think modern HRMs are capable of lab-level accuracy, but
    not under real-life conditions. During any one workout--or
    any portion of one--weather, the athlete's physical and
    emotional condition, the terrain, electronic interference
    (e.g., power lines), and numerous other things affect the
    level of exertion and the readings. It's better to note
    readings from time to time and mentally average them for the
    entire workout or for the hard parts and the easy parts.
    Newer HRMs, of course, can log all the readings for
    download, but IMO it's still necessary to average readings
    rather than taking spot readings as meaningful.

    Quoted message said:

    I have always had natural fitness but can hardly be
    described as an athlete.

    Quoted message said:

    Is this dangerous? Is my heart going to explode or suddenly
    stop functioning? Of course I have been doing this for
    years but without knowing how fast it was going.

    Adding the HRM doesn't add to your risk <G> so if you've
    been doing your hour-long rides for a reasonable length of
    time you're probably already acclimated to the exertion.
    OTOH if you are fairly new you should be patient and build
    up slowly to your desired fitness level. Runners suggest
    never increasing workload (pace, distance, time) more than
    10% over a week or a month. I don't know but suspect bikers
    have similar cautions.

    Quoted message said:

    My heart rate at rest is 60 - 65bpm and I am a bit
    overweight.

    Overweight is a national problem. Stick with your
    routine, reduce your intake (many athletes find their
    appetite diminishes or their food cravings change as
    their fitness grows, and the pounds drop away at
    sustainable rates of loss).

    RHR, like MHR, is an individual matter. A RHR in the 60s
    could be your normal, though it's possible that with
    increased fitness it may drop somewhat. FWIW, I'm a
    moderately healthy male and have always had somewhat slow
    pulse rates. I can easily get into the 40s and 30s under
    some conditions.
    --
    Don [email hidden]

  5. James,

    You should be okay. The predicted maximum heart rate has a
    standard deviation of 13 beats/minute. According to Dr.
    Mirkin, a high maximum heart rate can be a sign of fitness.
    Also, in general, it's okay to exercise at your maximum
    rate. See drmirkin.com9156.html

    Technology Graphics <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi,

    I am 50 years old and have recently bought a heart rate
    monitor, not for fitness training really but because I
    can't resist gadgets.

    I have found to my surprise that on a one hour cycle ride
    I can average 185bpm and for a short time I can get this
    up to 215bpm. I know that I am keeping up a pretty decent
    pace because nobody ever overtakes me and in fact I get a
    pretty childish thrill from overtaking "kids" half my age.

    According to various web sites and the information
    supplied with the equipment my Maximum Heart Rate should
    be 220 - 50 = 170 and if I am a super athlete I should be
    training at 90% of this i.e. 153bpm.

    I have always had natural fitness but can hardly be
    described as an athlete.

    Is this dangerous? Is my heart going to explode or
    suddenly stop functioning? Of course I have been doing
    this for years but without knowing how fast it was going.

    My heart rate at rest is 60 - 65bpm and I am a bit
    overweight.

    Thanks in advance for any advice.

    Kind regards James

  6. Don Kirkman said:


    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Technology Graphics
    wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    I am 50 years old and have recently bought a heart rate
    monitor, not for fitness training really but because I
    can't resist gadgets.

    Quoted message said:

    I have found to my surprise that on a one hour cycle
    ride I can average 185bpm and for a short time I can get
    this up to 215bpm. I know that I am keeping up a pretty
    decent pace because nobody ever overtakes me and in fact
    I get a pretty childish thrill from overtaking "kids"
    half my age.

    Quoted message said:

    According to various web sites and the information
    supplied with the equipment my Maximum Heart Rate should
    be 220 - 50 = 170 and if I am a super athlete I should be
    training at 90% of this i.e. 153bpm.

    That formula is apt to be very inaccurate for finding the
    maximum heart rate of any one individual. It is at best a
    population approach, and individuals may fall anywhere
    along a wide curve. Differences of one standard deviation
    or more are not uncommon.

    FWIW, in sports newsgroups I have also read suggestions
    that the formula originated with a group of physical
    therapists who needed a way to approximate MHR, and
    essentially developed the formula off the tops of their
    heads from their own experience.

    There are other better supported formulas that may work
    better for individuals. True MHR for a given individual
    probably is best derived from stress testing; some
    specific hard workouts (runners in particular have
    developed some) may give close approximations.

    Percentage of MHR may better be calculated by adjusting
    for resting heart rate, so that the range of variation is
    taken into account. For instance, a person with a resting
    rate of 50 and a maximum of 200 has a ROV [my term for
    this illustration only] of 150 bpm, and would have a
    different 90% level than a person with a resting rate of
    30 and a ROV of
    170. The formula is ((MRH-ROV) x target %) + ROV. Since
    resting heart rate is somewhat related to fitness
    level this formula to some extent adjusts for that
    difference.

    My suggestion, though, is to use the HRM to find your
    current level of performance without regard to *MHR*. From
    that base it's easy to increase or decrease working HR
    targets without trying to apply a formula without knowing
    all the variables.

    I think modern HRMs are capable of lab-level accuracy, but
    not under real-life conditions. During any one workout--or
    any portion of one--weather, the athlete's physical and
    emotional condition, the terrain, electronic interference
    (e.g., power lines), and numerous other things affect the
    level of exertion and the readings. It's better to note
    readings from time to time and mentally average them for
    the entire workout or for the hard parts and the easy
    parts. Newer HRMs, of course, can log all the readings for
    download, but IMO it's still necessary to average readings
    rather than taking spot readings as meaningful.

    Quoted message said:

    I have always had natural fitness but can hardly be
    described as an athlete.

    Quoted message said:

    Is this dangerous? Is my heart going to explode or
    suddenly stop functioning? Of course I have been doing
    this for years but without knowing how fast it was going.

    Adding the HRM doesn't add to your risk <G> so if you've
    been doing your hour-long rides for a reasonable length of
    time you're probably already acclimated to the exertion.
    OTOH if you are fairly new you should be patient and build
    up slowly to your desired fitness level. Runners suggest
    never increasing workload (pace, distance, time) more than
    10% over a week or a month. I don't know but suspect
    bikers have similar cautions.

    Quoted message said:

    My heart rate at rest is 60 - 65bpm and I am a bit
    overweight.

    Overweight is a national problem. Stick with your routine,
    reduce your intake

    That's a tall order if you don't know what your current
    intake is.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  7. It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote
    in article <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Don Kirkman wrote:

    [...]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Overweight is a national problem. Stick with your
    routine, reduce your intake

    Quoted message said:

    That's a tall order if you don't know what your current
    intake is.

    But of course no one asserted that the OP doesn't know what
    his current intake is, or that any normal person doesn't
    know whether they're eating two sandwiches or three, one
    bowl of ice cream or none, etc.

    and you snipped the other important part of what I wrote:

    "(many athletes* find their appetite diminishes or their
    food cravings change as their fitness grows, and the pounds
    drop away at sustainable rates of loss)"

    since diets are more problematic and less related to overall
    fitness than an active lifestyle is.

    * Perhaps I should have generalized and written
    "active people."
    --
    Don [email hidden]

  8. Don Kirkman said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
    MD/PhD wrote in article <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Don Kirkman wrote:

    [...]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Overweight is a national problem. Stick with your
    routine, reduce your intake

    Quoted message said:

    That's a tall order if you don't know what your current
    intake is.

    But of course no one asserted that the OP doesn't know
    what his current intake is, or that any normal person
    doesn't know whether they're eating two sandwiches or
    three, one bowl of ice cream or none, etc.

    Ime, most people do not know how much they are eating.

    When I ask the simple question, "How much did you eat
    yesterday?"

    I can typically listen for 3-5 minutes, learn what folks
    have eaten but have no idea about how much.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  9. It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote
    in article <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B.
    Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    [...]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Overweight is a national problem. Stick with your
    > routine, reduce your intake

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    That's a tall order if you don't know what your current
    intake is.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    But of course no one asserted that the OP doesn't know
    what his current intake is, or that any normal person
    doesn't know whether they're eating two sandwiches or
    three, one bowl of ice cream or none, etc.

    Quoted message said:

    Ime, most people do not know how much they are eating.

    Quoted message said:

    When I ask the simple question, "How much did you eat
    yesterday?"

    Quoted message said:

    I can typically listen for 3-5 minutes, learn what folks
    have eaten but have no idea about how much.

    You could try formulating your questions in the way I
    suggested in my original post: "You had ice cream yesterday?
    How many scoops/bowls?" "If you had toast for breakfast, how
    many slices?"

    I think most ordinary people can remember sufficiently
    accurately to gauge if they are increasing, maintaining, or
    reducing their intake.
    --
    Don [email hidden]

  10. Don Kirkman said:


    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
    MD/PhD wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B.
    Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    [...]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> Overweight is a national problem. Stick with your
    >> routine, reduce your intake

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >That's a tall order if you don't know what your
    >current intake is.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    But of course no one asserted that the OP doesn't know
    what his current intake is, or that any normal person
    doesn't know whether they're eating two sandwiches or
    three, one bowl of ice cream or none, etc.

    Quoted message said:

    Ime, most people do not know how much they are eating.

    Quoted message said:

    When I ask the simple question, "How much did you eat
    yesterday?"

    Quoted message said:

    I can typically listen for 3-5 minutes, learn what folks
    have eaten but have no idea about how much.

    You could try formulating your questions in the way I
    suggested in my original post: "You had ice cream
    yesterday? How many scoops/bowls?"

    Not helpful. One scoop can vary tremendously in amount. Same
    goes for one bowl (small, medium, large, pasta bowl, salad
    bowl, etc).

    Quoted message said:

    "If you had toast for breakfast, how many slices?"

    A slice can vary tremendously in amount. There are thin
    slices and thick slices and super thick slices.

    Quoted message said:

    I think most ordinary people can remember sufficiently
    accurately to gauge if they are increasing, maintaining,
    or reducing their intake.

    Not ime.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  11. Thank you Dr Chung. I get tired of these people like Don
    when they "ain't been there" and "ain't done that" but feel
    free to make assumptions and give advice on things about
    which they have no personal expereince or special knowledge.
    Assumptions make asses of all of us, especially in matters
    of life an death such as cardiac disease.

    Don and his ilk also try to drive you away from this
    newsgroup. Please keep up your fine contributions to this
    group. I don't always agree with you because of some of my
    personal experiences but differences are why all statistical
    distributions have tails.

    "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote
    in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Don Kirkman said:


    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B.
    Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    > It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B.
    > Chung, MD/PhD


    wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > in article <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    > >Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    > [...]

    Quoted message said:

    > >> Overweight is a national problem. Stick with your
    > >> routine, reduce


    your

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >> intake

    Quoted message said:

    > >That's a tall order if you don't know what your
    > >current intake is.

    Quoted message said:

    > But of course no one asserted that the OP doesn't
    > know what his


    current

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > intake is, or that any normal person doesn't know
    > whether they're


    eating

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > two sandwiches or three, one bowl of ice cream or
    > none, etc.

    Quoted message said:

    Ime, most people do not know how much they are eating.

    Quoted message said:

    When I ask the simple question, "How much did you eat
    yesterday?"

    Quoted message said:

    I can typically listen for 3-5 minutes, learn what
    folks have eaten but


    have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    no idea about how much.

    You could try formulating your questions in the way I
    suggested in my original post: "You had ice cream
    yesterday? How many scoops/bowls?"

    Not helpful. One scoop can vary tremendously in amount.
    Same goes for one bowl (small, medium, large, pasta bowl,
    salad bowl, etc).

    Quoted message said:

    "If you had toast for breakfast, how many slices?"

    A slice can vary tremendously in amount. There are thin
    slices and thick slices and super thick slices.

    Quoted message said:

    I think most ordinary people can remember sufficiently
    accurately to gauge if they are increasing, maintaining,
    or reducing their intake.

    Not ime.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    ** Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam? makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  12. Nashville Pete said:

    Thank you Dr Chung. I get tired of these people like Don
    when they "ain't been there" and "ain't done that" but
    feel free to make assumptions and give advice on things
    about which they have no personal expereince or special
    knowledge. Assumptions make asses of all of us, especially
    in matters of life an death such as cardiac disease.

    Don and his ilk also try to drive you away from this
    newsgroup.

    My still being here is a testament to the infinite power of
    my master.

    Quoted message said:

    Please keep up your fine contributions to this group.

    This is all part of His will and plan.

    Quoted message said:

    I don't always agree with you because of some of my
    personal experiences but differences are why all
    statistical distributions have tails.

    Correct. Those differences serve to illustrate how each us
    are unique creations by God.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  13. It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote
    in article <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Nashville Pete wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Thank you Dr Chung. I get tired of these people like Don
    when they "ain't been there" and "ain't done that" but
    feel free to make assumptions and give advice on things
    about which they have no personal expereince or special
    knowledge. Assumptions make asses of all of us,
    especially in matters of life an death such as cardiac
    disease.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Don and his ilk also try to drive you away from this
    newsgroup.

    Quoted message said:

    My still being here is a testament to the infinite power of
    my master.

    Which of course has no relationship to the truth or falsity
    of NP's contention that I'm trying to drive *anyone* away.
    I'd appreciate NP offering a few samples of posts in which
    I've attempted this, and also some examples of advice I've
    given when I have no personal experience or special
    knowledge. It's truth perception time, NP.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I don't always agree with you because of some of my
    personal experiences but differences are why all
    statistical distributions have tails.

    But then, Pete, shouldn't you also be willing to acknowledge
    other readers' right to not agree because of their own
    unique personal experiences?
    --
    Don [email hidden]

  14. It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote
    in article <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B.
    Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B.
    > Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article
    > <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > [...]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >> Overweight is a national problem. Stick with your
    > >> routine, reduce your intake

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >That's a tall order if you don't know what your
    > >current intake is.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > But of course no one asserted that the OP doesn't know
    > what his current intake is, or that any normal person
    > doesn't know whether they're eating two sandwiches or
    > three, one bowl of ice cream or none, etc.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Ime, most people do not know how much they are eating.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    When I ask the simple question, "How much did you eat
    yesterday?"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I can typically listen for 3-5 minutes, learn what folks
    have eaten but have no idea about how much.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You could try formulating your questions in the way I
    suggested in my original post: "You had ice cream
    yesterday? How many scoops/bowls?"

    Quoted message said:

    Not helpful. One scoop can vary tremendously in amount.
    Same goes for one bowl (small, medium, large, pasta bowl,
    salad bowl, etc).

    Any one patient will most likely one particular scoop,
    would own bowls of a given size, and would use the same
    equipment day to day. What's so hard about figuring if it's
    one scoop or two?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "If you had toast for breakfast, how many slices?"

    Quoted message said:

    A slice can vary tremendously in amount. There are thin
    slices and thick slices and super thick slices.

    Bread is more variable than utensils. Nevertheless, people
    tend to use the same types of bread over time and can easily
    tell if they've had one slice or two, and whether it's small
    raisin bread or large sourdough.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I think most ordinary people can remember sufficiently
    accurately to gauge if they are increasing, maintaining,
    or reducing their intake.

    Quoted message said:

    Not ime.

    Perhaps you need more real daily life experience.

    I have to wonder if your underlying purpose is to promote a
    specific amount of reduction, which I don't think is
    necessary for an average person contemplating athletic
    activity and needing to drop a few pounds--which is where
    this thread began. As I pointed out, the increased activity
    often leads to reduced appetite and reduced weight.
    --
    Don [email hidden]

  15. Don Kirkman said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
    MD/PhD wrote in article <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B.
    Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B.
    >> Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article
    >> <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> >Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> [...]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> >> Overweight is a national problem. Stick with your
    >> >> routine, reduce your intake

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> >That's a tall order if you don't know what your
    >> >current intake is.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> But of course no one asserted that the OP doesn't
    >> know what his current intake is, or that any normal
    >> person doesn't know whether they're eating two
    >> sandwiches or three, one bowl of ice cream or none,
    >> etc.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Ime, most people do not know how much they are eating.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >When I ask the simple question, "How much did you eat
    >yesterday?"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >I can typically listen for 3-5 minutes, learn what
    >folks have eaten but have no idea about how much.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You could try formulating your questions in the way I
    suggested in my original post: "You had ice cream
    yesterday? How many scoops/bowls?"

    Quoted message said:

    Not helpful. One scoop can vary tremendously in amount.
    Same goes for one bowl (small, medium, large, pasta bowl,
    salad bowl, etc).

    Any one patient will most likely one particular scoop,
    would own bowls of a given size, and would use the same
    equipment day to day.

    Ime, most folks have spoons and scoopers of varying sizes...
    bowls of varying sizes... and use different eating utensils
    throughout the day.

    Quoted message said:

    What's so hard about figuring if it's one scoop or two?

    Ime, folks generally don't commit brain cells to the task of
    eating much less tracking how much they eat.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "If you had toast for breakfast, how many slices?"

    Quoted message said:

    A slice can vary tremendously in amount. There are thin
    slices and thick slices and super thick slices.

    Bread is more variable than utensils.

    They are both variable. How variable will also be variable.

    Quoted message said:

    Nevertheless, people tend to use
    the same types of bread over time

    Ime, most folks like variety.

    Quoted message said:

    and can easily tell if they've had one slice or two, and
    whether it's small raisin bread or large sourdough.

    Ime, folks generally don't commit brain cells to the task of
    eating much less tracking how much they eat.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I think most ordinary people can remember sufficiently
    accurately to gauge if they are increasing,
    maintaining, or reducing their intake.

    Quoted message said:

    Not ime.

    Perhaps you need more real daily life experience.

    Given that there seems to be greater diversity in my
    experiences and you profess greater uniformity in your
    experiences. Who probably has more real daily life
    experiences, Don?

    Quoted message said:


    I have to wonder if your underlying purpose is to promote
    a specific amount of reduction, which I don't think is
    necessary for an average person contemplating athletic
    activity and needing to drop a few pounds--which is where
    this thread began.

    My underlying purpose is to be truthful.

    Quoted message said:

    As I pointed out, the increased activity often leads to
    reduced appetite and reduced weight.

    Ime, many have reported increased appetite with
    increased activity.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  16. Don Kirkman said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
    MD/PhD wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Nashville Pete wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Thank you Dr Chung. I get tired of these people like
    Don when they "ain't been there" and "ain't done that"
    but feel free to make assumptions and give advice on
    things about which they have no personal expereince or
    special knowledge. Assumptions make asses of all of us,
    especially in matters of life an death such as cardiac
    disease.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Don and his ilk also try to drive you away from this
    newsgroup.

    Quoted message said:

    My still being here is a testament to the infinite power
    of my master.

    Which of course has no relationship to the truth or
    falsity of NP's contention that I'm trying to drive
    *anyone* away.

    NP is entitled to his opinion regarding your
    intentions, Don.

    Quoted message said:

    I'd appreciate NP offering a few samples of posts in
    which I've attempted this, and also some examples of
    advice I've given when I have no personal experience or
    special knowledge. It's truth perception time, NP.

    I am not NP.

    In truth, if you desired what you claim, why aren't you
    responding to NP's post directly.

    (the gift of truth discernment at work again :-)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I don't always agree with you because of some of my
    personal experiences but differences are why all
    statistical distributions have tails.

    But then, Pete, shouldn't you also be willing to
    acknowledge other readers' right to not agree because of
    their own unique personal experiences?

    I believe you are either confusing me with Pete or confused
    about Usenet etiquette.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  17. It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote
    in article <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B.
    Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B.
    > Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article
    > <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B.
    > >> Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article
    > >> <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >> >Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >> [...]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >> >> Overweight is a national problem. Stick with
    > >> >> your routine, reduce your intake

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >> >That's a tall order if you don't know what your
    > >> >current intake is.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >> But of course no one asserted that the OP doesn't
    > >> know what his current intake is, or that any normal
    > >> person doesn't know whether they're eating two
    > >> sandwiches or three, one bowl of ice cream or none,
    > >> etc.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >Ime, most people do not know how much they are
    > >eating.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >When I ask the simple question, "How much did you eat
    > >yesterday?"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >I can typically listen for 3-5 minutes, learn what
    > >folks have eaten but have no idea about how much.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > You could try formulating your questions in the way I
    > suggested in my original post: "You had ice cream
    > yesterday? How many scoops/bowls?"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Not helpful. One scoop can vary tremendously in amount.
    Same goes for one bowl (small, medium, large, pasta
    bowl, salad bowl, etc).

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Any one patient will most likely one particular scoop,
    would own bowls of a given size, and would use the same
    equipment day to day.

    Quoted message said:

    Ime, most folks have spoons and scoopers of varying
    sizes... bowls of varying sizes... and use different eating
    utensils throughout the day.

    But they use those same utensils day after day. Again you
    seem to be asking for precise measures, not relative amounts
    such as more, same, less.

    Quoted message said:

    Ime, folks generally don't commit brain cells to the task
    of eating much less tracking how much they eat.

    What I suggested was not tracking but simply paying
    attention.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > "If you had toast for breakfast, how many slices?"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    A slice can vary tremendously in amount. There are thin
    slices and thick slices and super thick slices.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Bread is more variable than utensils.

    Quoted message said:

    They are both variable. How variable will also be variable.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Nevertheless, people tend to use
    the same types of bread over time

    Quoted message said:

    Ime, most folks like variety.

    But they will know what kind of bread they are eating and
    how many slices. It requires no weighing, no calculation of
    grams of carbohydrate, no calorie charts to know if you've
    eaten more bread or less bread today than yesterday.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and can easily tell if they've had one slice or two, and
    whether it's small raisin bread or large sourdough.

    Quoted message said:

    Ime, folks generally don't commit brain cells to the task
    of eating much less tracking how much they eat.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > I think most ordinary people can remember sufficiently
    > accurately to gauge if they are increasing,
    > maintaining, or reducing their intake.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Not ime.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps you need more real daily life experience.

    Quoted message said:

    Given that there seems to be greater diversity in my
    experiences and you profess greater uniformity in your
    experiences. Who probably has more real daily life
    experiences, Don?

    I think I probably do, from having lived much longer, for
    one thing, and from having lived in more different cultures
    and regions, for another. People are largely creatures of
    habit, and tend to fall into daily routines within fairly
    clear limits.

    Incidentally, I really haven't seen you describing greater
    diversity in your experiences, only a different kind of
    experience. You seem to be describing ordinary people in
    rather narrow terms, as not paying attention to how much
    they eat, not being able to describe their intake in a way
    you understand, etc. Where's the diversity you speak of?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    As I pointed out, the increased activity often leads to
    reduced appetite and reduced weight.

    Quoted message said:

    Ime, many have reported increased appetite with increased
    activity.

    Those who do so also have higher and better sustained
    metabolism, offsetting the additional calories
    consumed. How many obese elite marathoners have you
    seen? Ordinary folks don't typically have increased
    appetites because of increased activity, nor do they
    have the accelerated metabolism that requires more
    calories to sustain body weight.
    --
    Don [email hidden]

  18. It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote
    in article <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B.
    Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Nashville Pete wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Thank you Dr Chung. I get tired of these people like
    > Don when they "ain't been there" and "ain't done that"
    > but feel free to make assumptions and give advice on
    > things about which they have no personal expereince or
    > special knowledge. Assumptions make asses of all of
    > us, especially in matters of life an death such as
    > cardiac disease.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Don and his ilk also try to drive you away from this
    > newsgroup.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    My still being here is a testament to the infinite power
    of my master.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Which of course has no relationship to the truth or
    falsity of NP's contention that I'm trying to drive
    *anyone* away.

    Quoted message said:

    NP is entitled to his opinion regarding your
    intentions, Don.

    He stated it as a fact. If he wants to acknowledge that it
    is only his opinion that's fine. I addressed your comment
    and not his because you chose to comment on Pete's remarks
    in a way that reinforced his own statement.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'd appreciate NP offering a few samples of posts in
    which I've attempted this, and also some examples of
    advice I've given when I have no personal experience or
    special knowledge. It's truth perception time, NP.

    Quoted message said:

    I am not NP.

    Read the attributions. I know that.

    Quoted message said:

    In truth, if you desired what you claim, why aren't you
    responding to NP's post directly.

    Because you are the one who commented on his statement in a
    way that implies he wrote the truth.

    Quoted message said:

    (the gift of truth discernment at work again :-)

    Are you saying you discern his statement to be true? If
    so I'll ask you for proof, as well, unless it's only
    your opinion.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > I don't always agree with you because of some of my
    > personal experiences but differences are why all
    > statistical distributions have tails.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    But then, Pete, shouldn't you also be willing to
    acknowledge other readers' right to not agree because of
    their own unique personal experiences?

    Quoted message said:

    I believe you are either confusing me with Pete or confused
    about Usenet etiquette.

    Neither. I am responding directly to something Pete wrote
    which you quoted intact. If I had not know Pete wrote it I
    would not have addressed him by name. If you were well
    versed about Netiquette you would know that multiple
    conversations are common in threads, and that experienced
    readers are able to distinguish who is being addressed.
    --
    Don [email hidden]

  19. Don Kirkman said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
    MD/PhD wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B.
    Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Nashville Pete wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> Thank you Dr Chung. I get tired of these people like
    >> Don when they "ain't been there" and "ain't done
    >> that" but feel free to make assumptions and give
    >> advice on things about which they have no personal
    >> expereince or special knowledge. Assumptions make
    >> asses of all of us, especially in matters of life an
    >> death such as cardiac disease.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> Don and his ilk also try to drive you away from this
    >> newsgroup.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >My still being here is a testament to the infinite
    >power of my master.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Which of course has no relationship to the truth or
    falsity of NP's contention that I'm trying to drive
    *anyone* away.

    Quoted message said:

    NP is entitled to his opinion regarding your
    intentions, Don.

    He stated it as a fact.

    Do you really believe that folks reading this really believe
    that NP can read you mind thereby making his expressed
    opinion actually fact?

    Quoted message said:

    If he wants to acknowledge that it is only his opinion
    that's fine. I addressed your comment and not his because
    you chose to comment on Pete's remarks in a way that
    reinforced his own statement.

    It would seem that you are intent on being argumentative.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'd appreciate NP offering a few samples of posts in
    which I've attempted this, and also some examples of
    advice I've given when I have no personal experience
    or special knowledge. It's truth perception time, NP.

    Quoted message said:

    I am not NP.

    Read the attributions. I know that.

    Would suggest that next time you show more clearly that you
    know this by responding to NP directly.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    In truth, if you desired what you claim, why aren't you
    responding to NP's post directly.

    Because you are the one who commented on his statement in
    a way that implies he wrote the truth.

    It would appear that he expressed his opinion truthfully.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    (the gift of truth discernment at work again :-)

    Are you saying you discern his statement to be true?

    No. What I discern to be true is that you would not
    appreciate NP citing those messages in your past that
    support his opinion regarding your intent.

    Quoted message said:

    If so I'll ask you for proof, as well, unless it's only
    your opinion.

    You now know what I discern to be true.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> I don't always agree with you because of some of my
    >> personal experiences but differences are why all
    >> statistical distributions have tails.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    But then, Pete, shouldn't you also be willing to
    acknowledge other readers' right to not agree because
    of their own unique personal experiences?

    Quoted message said:

    I believe you are either confusing me with Pete or
    confused about Usenet etiquette.

    Neither. I am responding directly to something Pete wrote
    which you quoted intact. If I had not know Pete wrote it I
    would not have addressed him by name. If you were well
    versed about Netiquette you would know that multiple
    conversations are common in threads, and that experienced
    readers are able to distinguish who is being addressed.

    Multiple conversations are indeed common in threads.
    Multiple conversations in one posting are not.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  20. Don Kirkman said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
    MD/PhD wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B.
    Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B.
    >> Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article
    >> <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> >Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew
    >> >> B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article
    >> >> <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> >> >Don Kirkman wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> >> [...]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> >> >> Overweight is a national problem. Stick with
    >> >> >> your routine, reduce your intake

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> >> >That's a tall order if you don't know what your
    >> >> >current intake is.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> >> But of course no one asserted that the OP doesn't
    >> >> know what his current intake is, or that any
    >> >> normal person doesn't know whether they're eating
    >> >> two sandwiches or three, one bowl of ice cream or
    >> >> none, etc.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> >Ime, most people do not know how much they are
    >> >eating.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> >When I ask the simple question, "How much did you
    >> >eat yesterday?"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> >I can typically listen for 3-5 minutes, learn what
    >> >folks have eaten but have no idea about how much.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> You could try formulating your questions in the way
    >> I suggested in my original post: "You had ice cream
    >> yesterday? How many scoops/bowls?"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Not helpful. One scoop can vary tremendously in
    >amount. Same goes for one bowl (small, medium, large,
    >pasta bowl, salad bowl, etc).

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Any one patient will most likely one particular scoop,
    would own bowls of a given size, and would use the same
    equipment day to day.

    Quoted message said:

    Ime, most folks have spoons and scoopers of varying
    sizes... bowls of varying sizes... and use different
    eating utensils throughout the day.

    But they use those same utensils day after day.

    No necessarily.

    Quoted message said:

    Again you seem to be asking for precise measures, not
    relative amounts such as more, same, less.

    No. The question is simply: "How much did you eat
    yesterday?"

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Ime, folks generally don't commit brain cells to the task
    of eating much less tracking how much they eat.

    What I suggested was not tracking but simply paying
    attention.

    Attention requires brain cells.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> "If you had toast for breakfast, how many slices?"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >A slice can vary tremendously in amount. There are
    >thin slices and thick slices and super thick slices.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Bread is more variable than utensils.

    Quoted message said:

    They are both variable. How variable will also be
    variable.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Nevertheless, people tend to use
    the same types of bread over time

    Quoted message said:

    Ime, most folks like variety.

    But they will know what kind of bread they are eating and
    how many slices.

    The variation in the kind of bread will throw off the
    quantification. Think about it.

    Quoted message said:

    It requires no weighing, no calculation of grams of
    carbohydrate, no calorie charts to know if you've eaten
    more bread or less bread today than yesterday.

    Ime, people don't eat only bread.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and can easily tell if they've had one slice or two,
    and whether it's small raisin bread or large sourdough.

    Quoted message said:

    Ime, folks generally don't commit brain cells to the task
    of eating much less tracking how much they eat.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> I think most ordinary people can remember
    >> sufficiently accurately to gauge if they are
    >> increasing, maintaining, or reducing their intake.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Not ime.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps you need more real daily life experience.

    Quoted message said:

    Given that there seems to be greater diversity in my
    experiences and you profess greater uniformity in your
    experiences. Who probably has more real daily life
    experiences, Don?

    I think I probably do, from having lived much longer, for
    one thing, and from having lived in more different
    cultures and regions, for another.

    I am a doctor who has been seeing patients for 10 years now.
    Do you really believe you have gotten to know as many people
    intimately as I have?

    Quoted message said:


    People are largely creatures of habit, and tend to fall
    into daily routines within fairly clear limits.

    Ime, not when it comes to food.

    Quoted message said:

    Incidentally, I really haven't seen you describing greater
    diversity in your experiences, only a different kind of
    experience. You seem to be describing ordinary people in
    rather narrow terms, as not paying attention to how much
    they eat, not being able to describe their intake in a way
    you understand, etc. Where's the diversity you speak of?

    Would suggest you review this thread.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    As I pointed out, the increased activity often leads
    to reduced appetite and reduced weight.

    Quoted message said:

    Ime, many have reported increased appetite with increased
    activity.

    Those who do so also have higher and better sustained
    metabolism, offsetting the additional calories consumed.

    The many I refer to are overweight.

    Quoted message said:

    How many obese elite marathoners have you seen?

    None.

    Quoted message said:

    Ordinary folks don't typically have increased appetites
    because of increased activity,

    You should get out more, Don.

    Quoted message said:

    nor do they have the accelerated metabolism that requires
    more calories to sustain body weight.

    That's one reason they continue to gain.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
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