Hill vs Flat training

[WarrenG]

I have Ric in my head "neuromuscular benefits are specific to the speed and joint angle trained."

My coach and I would disagree with that. The sprints I do on a hill out of the saddle at a finishing cadence barely above 90 have significant benefits for the seated sprints I do at 130+ rpm's. SFR is done at 45 rpm's to help efforts at 95-100 rpm's. I do most of my uphill intervals at 80-90 rpm's but they help my racing efforts at 95-110 rpm's.

 

[WarrenG]

I think it's bogus =).

If you are fatigued (which is a nebulous term that includes both actual physiologic conditions as well as psychological overlays) then you will be limited.

Assuming you aren't glycogen depleted, sleepy, depressed, or any number of other reasons to be 'fatigued', the limiting factor in high intensity efforts (lasting more than seconds) is always going to be oxygen delivery.Scott

Then why can't you do 10x4' at VO2max? You can still deliver oxygen fairly well, but your muscles are too tired.

 

[scotmart]

Then why can't you do 10x4' at VO2max? You can still deliver oxygen fairly well, but your muscles are too tired.

Well, I can. 40 minutes is the top end of total time people tend to be able to do at VO2max. It's not a fun set, but I do do 8X5' occasionally.

That's a different question though. The reason you can't go beyond that is fatigue (which again, is not attributable to any single factor).

What I think is bunk is the idea that when *not* fatigued there are some people who's efforts are limited by their breathing, and others by their legs.

Scott

 

[whoawhoa]

My coach and I would disagree with that. The sprints I do on a hill out of the saddle at a finishing cadence barely above 90 have significant benefits for the seated sprints I do at 130+ rpm's. SFR is done at 45 rpm's to help efforts at 95-100 rpm's. I do most of my uphill intervals at 80-90 rpm's but they help my racing efforts at 95-110 rpm's.

Really? I'm surprised, since you were beating the drum for specificity in sprint training (on-bike work instead of weights).

 

[SolarEnergy]

What I think is bunk is the idea that when *not* fatigued there are some people who's efforts are limited by their breathing, and others by their legs.

Scott

If I understand what you mean, you're saying that those who feel they run out of leg, without being out of breath are fatigued. If I am not fatigued, then I will probably run out of breath while doing L5 training at pVO2Max, given that the duration is long enough (~4 and 6 minutes let's say).

Is this what you mean?

What do you experiment. Do you reach RCP while doing these?

 

[WarrenG]

Really? I'm surprised, since you were beating the drum for specificity in sprint training (on-bike work instead of weights).

C'mon, that's really stretching don't you think? I think you've read enough of my posts to understand what is useful specificity and what is not, and when and why you'd choose the varying degrees of specficity.

For example, I have learned that there are better ways to improve one's sprint than just doing sprints as I would during races. You work on aspects of sprinting to improve the SPECIFIC weaknesses within the event. Same as the best time trial racers who do not just do steady-state training efforts slightly above threshold, even though that's about where they are when they're racing.

 

[whoawhoa]

C'mon, that's really stretching don't you think? I think you've read enough of my posts to understand what is useful specificity and what is not, and when and why you'd choose the varying degrees of specficity.

I assumed you were talking about neuromuscular specificity when you said you preferred on the bike work over weights. What specific adaptations were you referring to?

For example, I have learned that there are better ways to improve one's sprint than just doing sprints as I would during races. You work on aspects of sprinting to improve the SPECIFIC weaknesses within the event. Same as the best time trial racers who do not just do steady-state training efforts slightly above threshold, even though that's about where they are when they're racing.

Uh, I agree. Specificity isn't the same as duplicity.

 

[WarrenG]

I assumed you were talking about neuromuscular specificity when you said you preferred on the bike work over weights. What specific adaptations were you referring to?.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. Specific adaptations in what area?

 

[K50]

What I think is bunk is the idea that when *not* fatigued there are some people who's efforts are limited by their breathing, and others by their legs.
Scott

Just means they have to train more, unless there's a genetic limitation like asthma.