Hills

Jon Senior said:

"Keith Willoughby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Now, at the moment, I can go up inclines. I can climb up
from Tongwynlais to Caerphilly, which is a couple of
hundred feet in two miles or so, and that's not much of a
problem. A little puffed at the end, but basically fine.
However, when it gets a little steeper, I can do about 50
feet before my thighs start to burn and I have to stop.
Standing up and honking isn't an option - I just can't do
it any more.

I take it you have no more gears in a downward stylee?

Nope. I've hit the lowest gears on a triple, and twenty
seconds later you could cook an egg on my upper legs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So, what's the best way to practise going up hills?
Should I ride the hills I can do (such as the
Tongwynlais route I mention above) lots of times? Or
should I try to ride up the steeper ones and do a few
feet extra each time?

Perverse as it may seem, try doing the hills that you can
currently do, carrying more weight.

Hah. OK, I guess it makes sense. I'll put the panniers on.

Quoted message said:

This will improve your fitness and climbing ability. There
was an article about this in C+ recently. It is apparently
called "hypergravity training" and is basically bloody
obvious. Train with weights, remove weights, go faster and
further!

A Welsh boxer from the 50s whose name escapes me used to do
that. He used to train in miners' steel-toe-capped boots.

[...]

Quoted message said:

While trying to get further and further up a hill which is
currently beating you is admirable, it is likely to leave
you demoralised. Making routes that you can do, harder,
will increase your strength and fitness without losing the
feelings of victory. Do you ride alone?

Mostly, yeah.

Quoted message said:

If you have someone who can ride with you, you may find
you could go further. The pyschological boost of having
someone else there can be all it takes to push those last
few metres!

Hmm. If it was a stamina thing you might be right, but it's
mostly a strength thing at the mo. The muscles just give up
really quickly.

I think I'll try doing the Tongwynlais climb twice in
succession. If nothing else, the freewheel down is
lots of fun.

--
Keith Willoughby flat222.orgkeithOpen ↗ 9-3

Jon Senior said:

Perverse as it may seem, try doing the hills that you can
currently do, carrying more weight. This will improve your
fitness and climbing ability.

I think this sounds very perverse and is potentially harmful
for someone who isn't fit. It sounds like a training
programme for very fit people who want to get fitter, not
people like the OP who need to lose weight.

My suggestion is to find hills that you _can_ ride up.
Failing that there's nothing wrong with pushing. Any
exercise, including pushing, will help you get fitter
and you _will_ eventually be able to climb those hills.
It's often possible to ride a bit, push a bit, ride
another bit etc.

Another suggestion is to take your bike a bit further south
(using the train?) where it's flatter. I was an unfit youth
in Cardiff and did lots of cycling around Caerphilly, Rudry,
Michaelston, St. Fagan's and down into the Vale of Glamorgan
on a 3-speed Raleigh. Even down there I had to push a bit
from time to time but so what?

BTW what cadence (rpm of feet) do you ride at,
approximately?

--
Michael MacClancy Random putdown - "I have never killed a
man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." -
Clarence Darrow www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

Michael MacClancy said:

My suggestion is to find hills that you _can_ ride up.
Failing that there's nothing wrong with pushing. Any
exercise, including pushing, will help you get fitter and
you _will_ eventually be able to climb those hills. It's
often possible to ride a bit, push a bit, ride another
bit etc.

Yeah, that's what I've been doing. Keep at it, then, and
be patient.

Quoted message said:

Another suggestion is to take your bike a bit further
south (using the train?) where it's flatter. I was an
unfit youth in Cardiff and did lots of cycling around
Caerphilly,

The hill up to Caerphilly is one of the few I can do 🙂

Quoted message said:

Rudry, Michaelston, St. Fagan's and down into the Vale of
Glamorgan on a 3-speed Raleigh.

I have considered getting a train down to Barry and cycling
around the vale. I've also considered cycling down to the
vale, but it's pushing my maximum distance a bit. Ideally,
I'd cycle down through Efail Isaf, Pentyrch, and Creigiau -
but there are hills that way 🙂

Quoted message said:

Even down there I had to push a bit from time to time but
so what?

BTW what cadence (rpm of feet) do you ride at,
approximately?

Last time I counted, it was 70. I've bought clipless pedals
since then, though. Much more than that and I start
bouncing, probably because I've hit the natural frequency of
the aerobelly 🙂

--
Keith Willoughby flat222.orgkeithOpen ↗ I hate you,
Butler

Michael MacClancy said:

Jon Senior said:

Perverse as it may seem, try doing the hills that you can
currently do, carrying more weight. This will improve your
fitness and climbing ability.

I think this sounds very perverse and is potentially
harmful for someone who isn't fit. It sounds like a
training programme for very fit people who want to get
fitter, not people like the OP who need to lose weight.

I agree. Cycling need not be masochism, unless one is really
trying to achieve peak (racing) performance)

Quoted message said:

My suggestion is to find hills that you _can_ ride up.

My suggestion is to fit lower gears. Unless the OP already
has ~20T chainring and 34T largest cog on the cassette, he
can drop the gearing to a level at which cycling will be not
be much faster (and thereore not much harder) than walking.

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is by treading on the
toes of giants. ne.jphomeOpen ↗

James Annan said:

Michael MacClancy said:

My suggestion is to find hills that you _can_ ride up.

My suggestion is to fit lower gears. Unless the OP already
has ~20T chainring and 34T largest cog on the cassette, he
can drop the gearing to a level at which cycling will be
not be much faster (and thereore not much harder) than
walking.

Hmm. If I counted correctly, they're 22 and 30. Quite a lot
of room to play with, then, with lower gears.

--
Keith Willoughby flat222.orgkeithOpen ↗ "Go back, Jack,
and do it again"

James Annan said:

Keith Willoughby said:

James Annan said:

My suggestion is to fit lower gears. Unless the OP
already has ~20T chainring and 34T largest cog on the
cassette, he can drop the gearing to a level at which
cycling will be not be much faster (and thereore not much
harder) than walking.

Hmm. If I counted correctly, they're 22 and 30. Quite a
lot of room to play with, then, with lower gears.

Not as much as i was hoping for...

I think 18T chainrings can be fitted, actually. Changing
to a cassette with 34T is a very simple operation.

I might wait until it needs replacing. By then . . .

Quoted message said:

You may also find you get further if you keep the
pedalling smooth and not too fast rather than heaving and
huffing and pufffing. But certainly, if you just keep on
riding regularly, and enjoying it, it will not be long
before you look back at the currently unrideable hill and
wonder what all the fuss was about!

. . . I'll hopefully not need it 🙂

Quoted message said:

You might also be surprised how much difference it makes
fitting thinner, slicker and higher pressure tyres. Of
course that depends what you already have. Sorry I haven't
been paying that much attention to what you have posted
before...

And there's me thinking you were all hanging on my every
word, waiting for the new installment of Fat Bloke Goes
Cycling 🙂

It currently has big thick knobbly tires on. I've been
putting off changing them because when I do, I may as well
clean the chain and casette while I'm there, and then I can
never face all that grease.

--
Keith Willoughby flat222.orgkeithOpen ↗ "Too lazy to
work, too nervous to steal"

Keith Willoughby said:

James Annan said:

My suggestion is to fit lower gears. Unless the OP already
has ~20T chainring and 34T largest cog on the cassette, he
can drop the gearing to a level at which cycling will be
not be much faster (and thereore not much harder) than
walking.

Hmm. If I counted correctly, they're 22 and 30. Quite a
lot of room to play with, then, with lower gears.

Not as much as i was hoping for...

I think 18T chainrings can be fitted, actually. Changing to
a cassette with 34T is a very simple operation. You may
also find you get further if you keep the pedalling smooth
and not too fast rather than heaving and huffing and
pufffing. But certainly, if you just keep on riding
regularly, and enjoying it, it will not be long before you
look back at the currently unrideable hill and wonder what
all the fuss was about!

You might also be surprised how much difference it makes
fitting thinner, slicker and higher pressure tyres. Of
course that depends what you already have. Sorry I
haven't been paying that much attention to what you have
posted before...

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is by treading on the
toes of giants. ne.jphomeOpen ↗

Keith Willoughby said:

James Annan said:

Michael MacClancy said:

My suggestion is to find hills that you _can_ ride up.

My suggestion is to fit lower gears. Unless the OP
already has ~20T chainring and 34T largest cog on the
cassette, he can drop the gearing to a level at which
cycling will be not be much faster (and thereore not much
harder) than walking.

Hmm. If I counted correctly, they're 22 and 30. Quite a
lot of room to play with, then, with lower gears.

You may have thought of this, I know, but are you sure
you're using all of your gears? The bike may not be set
up properly.
--
Michael MacClancy Random putdown - "I feel so miserable
without you, it's almost like having you here." -Stephen
Bishop www.macclancy.demon.co.uk www.macclancy.co.uk

Keith Willoughby said:

And there's me thinking you were all hanging on my every
word, waiting for the new installment of Fat Bloke Goes
Cycling 🙂

Oh I am really, it's just a dodgy internet connection that
sometimes means I miss your pearls of wisdom!

Quoted message said:

It currently has big thick knobbly tires on. I've been
putting off changing them because when I do, I may as well
clean the chain and casette while I'm there, and then I
can never face all that grease.

Oh, in that case dump the tyres NOW! You LBS should have
something suitable - basically anything fairly smooth and in
the 25-50mm size range will do, the smoothness is more
important than the width. Even a ~60psi slick (you may not
want the extra fuss of a truly light weight roadie tyre)
versus a 30psi knobbly is like night and day. You might also
want to invest in a decent pump to get sensible pressures
easily and reliably.

As well as rolling much better, a thinner tyre will drop the
effective gearing, by anything up to about 20%. Keep the
knobblies for when you wnat to take up MTBing, of course.

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is by treading on the
toes of giants. ne.jphomeOpen ↗

On 17/4/04 10:36 am, in article [email hidden], "Jon

Senior' jon_AT_restlesslemon.co.uk said:

"Michael MacClancy" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Perverse as it may seem, try doing the hills that you
can currently do, carrying more weight. This will
improve your fitness and climbing

ability.

Quoted message said:

I think this sounds very perverse and is potentially
harmful for someone who isn't fit. It sounds like a
training programme for very fit people

who

Quoted message said:

want to get fitter, not people like the OP who need to
lose weight.

Nah.. If you can comfortably ride up the hills with a bit of
weight, then so much the better. It is a question of finding
the right level.

Quoted message said:

In terms of weight loss, I've found that longer rides
rather than harder rides tend to be better (I later
discovered that the biochemistry backs this up).

Couple that with not eating as much and the weight falls off
(dropped over 2 stone so far, another 2 to go).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My suggestion is to find hills that you _can_ ride up.
Failing that there's nothing wrong with pushing. Any
exercise, including pushing, will help you get fitter and
you _will_ eventually be able to climb those

hills.

Quoted message said:

It's often possible to ride a bit, push a bit, ride
another bit etc.

The problem is one of morale. The feel-good factor of
labouring over the top of the hill without getting off
tends to encourage a rider to try again. I agree with the
suggestion of finding hills that you can do, the extra
weights were to provide a way to turn this into inbetween
stages for the hills you can't do yet.

I found that the biggest problem was not so much physical as
mental. I would get frustrated at going so slowly and try to
push too hard, or take too light a gear and spin out very
quickly. The key was learning to sit back and relax, tell
yourself 'I can turn this gear' at whatever speed is
comfortable and just keep on turning the gear. You have to
want to and it also helps to try distracting your self
mentally so the cycling happens in the background. Reciting
poetry, trying to solve trignometric equations in your head,
counting the dandelions .. whatever works do it.

Quoted message said:

As long as the overall ride is enjoyable, there is nothing
wrong with pushing. Cycling with my parents and their
friends at Easter I was horrified by the attitude of one
cyclist who said "I might as well walk from here, I'll
never make it up that hill". The reason that having a
cycling buddy is good, is a significant part of your
ability is mental, and having someone else there tends to
make you go that little bit further.

Absolutely agree. My biggest battles are mental. I had
problems with hills (being somewhat overoverweight) so found
a climb I could do, just. (Dundee Law for those who know
it). Over a period of several months I found I could pace
myself better, gradually increase the gears and increase the
number of times I went up. I can remember the mental
battles. 'No pint if you don't get up three times', 'I'm
bored/don't want to do this right now' and so on. Been
there, fought the battles, found the rhythym. I remember
each time I got a new best. I ride around the hill then up
the hill then round the hill for one circuit. (That's twice
round for every up). The one rule is no stopping. I got to
the point where I could do it on my road bike which has much
harder gearing.

And that training meant that I could switch into 'hill
zombie mode' and just keep turning the pedals smoothly and
slowly winch my way to the top.

Quoted message said:

And to boost the ego... a recent report in C+ discussed
gradients in Britain compared to Europe. Apparently our
ascents tend to be significantly steeper than those on the
continent, although often shorter. While you're labouring
up your hills in Britain, just think how much easier the
alps would be ;-).

Much easier if you can settle into a rhythym. Much harder if
you don't have the endurance.

..d

Quoted message said:

Much more than that and I start bouncing, probably because I've
hit the natural frequency of the aerobelly 🙂

I like that! May I use it?? ;-)

So, how much ballast are you pushing exactly? I do a nice
90kg, hmm.. my fit mate is sceptical that I'll loose a lot
cycling, he thinks I'll end up less lardy but heavier. We
shall see, also my boss thinks it is stupid buying a cheap
bike if the intention is to work and get fit, he advised
getting the heaviest old knacker available (which I already
have, conveniently) so it's not too easy. Maybe I should get
a fixed wheel, or weld up my current set?? Ho Ho.

Still, cycling has bitten now - I was out again yesterday,
and intend another assault on Werneth Low tomorrow, maybe
I'll get to the top - I have some smooth tyres to fit this
affy. £20 a pair inc inner tubes, off Wiggle. Bargain!
Stupidly though, I got some M600 Shimano brake blocks too.
Seems everyone thinks I should throw these away now, still
in the packaging...

bfn,

Tony B

Tony B said:

Quoted message said:

Much more than that and I start bouncing, probably
because I've hit the natural frequency of the
aerobelly 🙂

I like that! May I use it?? ;-)

You'd better ask Guy, I stole it from him 🙂

Quoted message said:

So, how much ballast are you pushing exactly? I do a
nice 90kg,

Last time I was 90kg, I was in school. I'm a lot more
than that.

Quoted message said:

hmm.. my fit mate is sceptical that I'll loose a lot
cycling

I haven't lost much yet, but I haven't been going out
regularly enough or long enough yet. I have noticed getting
fitter and stronger, though.

[...]

Quoted message said:

Still, cycling has bitten now - I was out again yesterday,
and intend another assault on Werneth Low tomorrow, maybe
I'll get to the top - I have some smooth tyres to fit this
affy. £20 a pair inc inner tubes, off Wiggle. Bargain!

I think I'll get the Schwalbe City Jet set. They've been
recommended in here, 24 quid on Wiggle.

--
Keith Willoughby flat222.orgkeithOpen ↗ "Suspected
murderer of Tupac murder suspect murdered"

James Annan said:

As well as rolling much better, a thinner tyre will
drop the effective gearing, by anything up to about
20%. Keep the knobblies for when you wnat to take up
MTBing, of course.

Really? That much. Bugger. Time to get my hands dirty.

--
Keith Willoughby flat222.orgkeithOpen ↗ Turning rebellion
into money

Michael MacClancy said:

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:51:34 +0100, Keith Willoughby

Quoted message said:

James Annan said:

Michael MacClancy wrote:
> My suggestion is to find hills that you _can_ ride up.

My suggestion is to fit lower gears. Unless the OP
already has ~20T chainring and 34T largest cog on the
cassette, he can drop the gearing to a level at which
cycling will be not be much faster (and thereore not
much harder) than walking.

Hmm. If I counted correctly, they're 22 and 30. Quite a
lot of room to play with, then, with lower gears.

You may have thought of this, I know, but are you sure
you're using all of your gears? The bike may not be set up
properly.

I think so. I've never used the highest chainwheel, but I do
spend a lot of time in the lowest. The very lowest gear
combination *is* pretty easy
- going up hills I can manage is just a matter of putting
the head down and turning. However, there's just a point
beyond which I can't do that.

--
Keith Willoughby flat222.orgkeithOpen ↗ "We sang Cwm
Rhondda and Delilah, Damn, they sounded both the same"

On 17/4/04 6:56 pm, in article [email hidden], "Keith

Willoughby said:

Tony B said:

Quoted message said:

Much more than that and I start bouncing, probably
because I've hit the natural frequency of the
aerobelly 🙂

I like that! May I use it?? ;-)

You'd better ask Guy, I stole it from him 🙂

Quoted message said:

So, how much ballast are you pushing exactly? I do a
nice 90kg,

I do now. was 105, heading for 70-80.

Quoted message said:

I think I'll get the Schwalbe City Jet set. They've been
recommended in here, 24 quid on Wiggle.

Great commuting tyre. Fast, high pressure (90 psi is fine),
reasonable on unmetalled tracks, absolutely abysmal on
grass or mud.

They also come with votive offerings to the puncture fairy
as I haven't had a single flat whilst using them.

..d

Quoted message said:

They also come with votive offerings to the puncture fairy
as I haven't had a single flat whilst using them.

Hmm, your name sounds familiar... <checks though database>
Terribly sorry - the computer says you should've been done
last week. I'll see what I can do.

David Martin <[email hidden]> of The University, Dundee, DD1 4HN,

Scotland said:

I found that the biggest problem was not so much physical
as mental. I would get frustrated at going so slowly and
try to push too hard, or take too light a gear and spin out
very quickly. The key was learning to sit back and relax,
tell yourself 'I can turn this gear' at whatever speed is
comfortable and just keep on turning the gear. You have to
want to and it also helps to try distracting your self
mentally so the cycling happens in the background. Reciting
poetry, trying to solve trignometric equations in your
head, counting the dandelions .. whatever works do it.

Count down backwards in a foreign language, starting from a
number high enough to make it hard. I do 100 to 0 in German
then French, then 20 to 0 in Thai and Malay, if I have to
count down from 5 to 0 in Japanese I'm in trouble.
--
Getting out of bed in the morning is an act of false confidence.
Steph Peters delete invalid from [email hidden]
Tatting, lace & stitching page <sandbenders.demon.co.ukindex.htmOpen ↗

On 17/4/04 10:12 pm, in article
[email hidden], "the Puncture Fairy"

thepuncturefairy@hawthorn_hedge_row.co.uk said:

Quoted message said:

They also come with votive offerings to the puncture
fairy as I haven't had a single flat whilst using them.

Hmm, your name sounds familiar... <checks though database>
Terribly sorry - the computer says you should've been done
last week. I'll see what I can do.

I was.. fixed a flat for my dad. (he'd brought the wheel all
the way from London to get the puncture mended)

..d

On 17/4/04 10:35 pm, in article [email hidden],

Steph Peters said:

David Martin <[email hidden]> of The

University said:

I found that the biggest problem was not so much physical
as mental. I would get frustrated at going so slowly and
try to push too hard, or take too light a gear and spin
out very quickly. The key was learning to sit back and
relax, tell yourself 'I can turn this gear' at whatever
speed is comfortable and just keep on turning the gear.
You have to want to and it also helps to try distracting
your self mentally so the cycling happens in the
background. Reciting poetry, trying to solve trignometric
equations in your head, counting the dandelions ..
whatever works do it.

Count down backwards in a foreign language, starting from
a number high enough to make it hard. I do 100 to 0 in
German then French, then 20 to 0 in Thai and Malay, if I
have to count down from 5 to 0 in Japanese I'm in trouble.

Ouch.. I can only manage that in one foreign language
(possibly 2 if English counts here in Dundee). As the
particular route I ride has a nice view as it corkscrews up
the core of an extinct volcano I get the chance to divert my
thoughts out over the city .. the groans as another goal
goes into the wrong net at Dens Park, the sound of the
muzzein calling the faithful to prayer at the mosque, the
police cars and fire engines pootling around the city. Play
spot the lightship with the one that is about 10 miles off
tentsmuir point. I can see it at night but not during the
day. Watch for bats in the woods, I've even seen a kestrel
over the allotments on the side of the hill. The good thing
is that I have the climb taped. I know where every slight
change in gradient occurs and how they relate to one
another. If I can get past a certain point fairly low down I
know I will do it.

It is amusing in the summer when the yoof congregate at the
top and see you going past for the second or third time and
ask how many times you intend to do it..

..d