Hip pain

Quoted message said:

Hello!

I am not looking for medical advice - but any advice would be welcome.

This post is in regard to my wife - Female - 39 - 9st10oz (61kg).

She has been running for 18 months or so. In Janauary did a 10 mile
run in 1hr28m. We were doing about 20 miles a week.

She had slight achillies pain. Her shoes were knackered (15 months old
and well worn). She bought new shoes (professionally fitted) - and
fairly quickly started to get hip pain. She has rested and bought
another pair from another shop (professionally fitted - but by a better
pro!)

But pain still around 🙁

She has rested for 2 weeks and really cut down mileage (perhap 3+4
miles a week from 5+5+6+8).

Pain seems to start at around 3.5 miles. Starts on outer side of right
leg about 3" down from knee cap. Then goes straight to hip. both bits
hurt together, nothing inbetween. When she does the ITB (??) stretch -
she says thats where the pain is. New shoes are very fitted - the
original new ones were loose in the width which may have caused the
issue. The old new shoes were bought at start of feb, new new start of
april. She has support shoes where they have extra support on outside.

She is stretching ITB numerous times daily. She is strengthening
quads.

But she is getting very frustraited. 🙁

We have not see physio (lost faith a while ago).

I have great faith in Physios, they have put me back on many occasions.

Quoted message said:

Any ideas welcome. Plan to go to doctors end April if hasn't healed -
but any ideas most most welcome

Hmm, pain in two disconnected places, this suggests a nerve involvement
to me and the ITB stretches helping might do that too. Stretch
hamstrings and do abdominal muscle strengthening as well, this will
relieve any strain and support the lower back.

Peter

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Quoted message said:

She had slight achillies pain. Her shoes were knackered (15 months old
and well worn). She bought new shoes (professionally fitted) - and
fairly quickly started to get hip pain. She has rested and bought
another pair from another shop (professionally fitted - but by a better
pro!)

But pain still around 🙁

Your "pros" are [censored], find a new one.

Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:57:16
<[email hidden]> uk.rec.running Peter
Ashby <[email hidden]>

[snipped but read]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

She is stretching ITB numerous times daily. She is strengthening
quads.

and twisting her lower spine unless she is *very* mobile / flexible.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But she is getting very frustraited. 🙁

We have not see physio (lost faith a while ago).

I have great faith in Physios, they have put me back on many occasions.

ditto, and Peter mentioned back.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any ideas welcome. Plan to go to doctors end April if hasn't healed -
but any ideas most most welcome

Hmm, pain in two disconnected places, this suggests a nerve involvement
to me

yes

Quoted message said:

and the ITB stretches helping might do that too. Stretch
hamstrings and do abdominal muscle strengthening as well, this will
relieve any strain and support the lower back.

I think Peter and I are both thinking this might be a back problem and
the feeling in the leg is a symptom.

Balancing the "running" muscle groups with their opposing ones (eg
abdominal vs lower back is one of them, squats exercise the front bit of
the thigh that running may not, etc) may help.

--
Wm ...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days from date of posting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

She had slight achillies pain. Her shoes were knackered (15 months old
and well worn). She bought new shoes (professionally fitted) - and
fairly quickly started to get hip pain. She has rested and bought
another pair from another shop (professionally fitted - but by a better
pro!)

But pain still around 🙁

It never ceases to amze me how people think stretching is the cure for
everything. $100 says she isn't stretching properly, probably bounces,
and doesn't hold it for a minimum of 40 seconds.
Stop the stretching. Thank me in a couple weeks when the pain goes
away.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

She had slight achillies pain. Her shoes were knackered (15 months old
and well worn). She bought new shoes (professionally fitted) - and
fairly quickly started to get hip pain. She has rested and bought
another pair from another shop (professionally fitted - but by a better
pro!)

But pain still around 🙁

It never ceases to amze me how people think stretching is the cure for
everything. $100 says she isn't stretching properly, probably bounces,
and doesn't hold it for a minimum of 40 seconds.
Stop the stretching. Thank me in a couple weeks when the pain goes
away.

That is a sweeping statement that takes no account of individual
variation. Studies on the efficacy or otherwise of stretching take no
account of individual variation, they are a fairly blunt tool. If I do
not stretch at least my calves and hamstrings then I become too tight to
function and risk pulling those muscles and straining other things, like
my back. This applies to walking around in normal life as well as
running, though running accelerates the process. I have always been like
this and have always found that regular, pre run stretching is the cure.
If I attempt to stretch post run when I am warm I can rarely get a
stretch.

I do not claim that my situtation is common to everyone, I know people
who never stretch and have no problems, I know people like myself and
others in the middle. In addition someone who has never had to stretch
may find that age or a change in activity make it necessary, acutely or
chronically.

Similarly there are a multitude of attitudes to how to stretch. I think
part of the confusion is between stretching cold and warm. If I bounced
while stretching cold I would almost certainly pull something, but I'm
not at all sure that would be true while warm. So again there is more to
take into account than simplicity suggests.

Peter
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On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:55:47 GMT, [email hidden] (Peter

Ashby) said:

If I bounced
while stretching cold I would almost certainly pull something, but I'm
not at all sure that would be true while warm. So

Like I said, your ignorance is holding you back. Stretching causes
injurys, and I've got over 20 without one, due to NOT stretching. I'm
sorry, but if you think bouncing is appropriate anytime, you know
jackshit about stretching. Stop stretching, give it several weeks for
everything to get back to normal, and do a proper warmup (walk, or run
slowly) and your injurys will be far and few between.

ryanjjones said:

Pain seems to start at around 3.5 miles. Starts on outer side of right
leg about 3" down from knee cap. Then goes straight to hip. both bits
hurt together, nothing inbetween.

OK, that sound exactly like ITBS. The below-the-knee pain is the ITB
rubbing against the epicondyle or whatever it's called, the hip is the TFL
(tensor fascia latae), the muscle at the end of the ITB.

I've dealt with this a few cycles of this and in the process have read quite
a bit too.

Different people seem to get relief from different things, a combination for
many of us.

Aside from ITB (TFL) stretches (which I continue to this day, even when I'm
not suffering from ITBS), things which have helped me include:

- rolling the ITB and the quads, first on a foam roller, progressing to a
length of PVC pipe
- massage
- avoiding downhills, especially running fast on paved downhills
- strengthening exercises like side leg lifts, though I was never consistent
enough with these to say how much they helped

There's tons of info on the web, in rec.running archives (google especially
Ozzie Gontang and ITB or ITBS), letsrun.com, etc. You'll have no problem
finding testimonials and suggestions of things to try.

Quoted message said:

New shoes are very fitted - the original new ones were loose in the
width which may have caused the issue. The old new shoes were bought
at start of feb, new new start of april. She has support shoes where
they have extra support on outside.

This is purely speculative but I've seen a few references to people blaming
shoes which are *too* "supportive" for ITBS. Somehow that strikes me as
intuitively plausible and consistent with my experience.

Best of luck, ITBS really sucks.

Do you control the rest of her life like this too?

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:55:47 GMT, [email hidden] (Peter

Ashby) said:

If I bounced
while stretching cold I would almost certainly pull something, but I'm
not at all sure that would be true while warm. So

Like I said, your ignorance is holding you back. Stretching causes
injurys, and I've got over 20 without one, due to NOT stretching. I'm
sorry, but if you think bouncing is appropriate anytime, you know
jackshit about stretching. Stop stretching, give it several weeks for
everything to get back to normal, and do a proper warmup (walk, or run
slowly) and your injurys will be far and few between.

The secret of stretching is to do it after you are warmed up. And know
what you are doing.

However, this started after she switched shoes. The most logical thing
to do is to find the same pair of shoes she had success with. Hollobird
is a great mail order company when you know what you want.

I would also suggest taking a little time off. When I'm hurt I swim, as
that is a great rehab exercise.

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:55:47 GMT, [email hidden] (Peter

Ashby) said:

If I bounced
while stretching cold I would almost certainly pull something, but I'm
not at all sure that would be true while warm. So

Like I said, your ignorance is holding you back. Stretching causes
injurys, and I've got over 20 without one, due to NOT stretching. I'm
sorry, but if you think bouncing is appropriate anytime, you know
jackshit about stretching. Stop stretching, give it several weeks for
everything to get back to normal, and do a proper warmup (walk, or run
slowly) and your injurys will be far and few between.

Since you have obviously failed to read and understand the rest of my
post, which you snipped, I see little point in continuing to discuss
this with you since your mind appears to be closed on the issue.

Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country

Beach Runner said:

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:55:47 GMT, [email hidden] (Peter

Ashby) said:

If I bounced
while stretching cold I would almost certainly pull something, but I'm
not at all sure that would be true while warm. So

Like I said, your ignorance is holding you back. Stretching causes
injurys, and I've got over 20 without one, due to NOT stretching. I'm
sorry, but if you think bouncing is appropriate anytime, you know
jackshit about stretching. Stop stretching, give it several weeks for
everything to get back to normal, and do a proper warmup (walk, or run
slowly) and your injurys will be far and few between.

The secret of stretching is to do it after you are warmed up. And know
what you are doing.

However, this started after she switched shoes. The most logical thing
to do is to find the same pair of shoes she had success with. Hollobird
is a great mail order company when you know what you want.

It is entirely possible that for eg she has legs of slightly different
length (goes with handedness) and her old shoes wore to accommodate
this. The new shoes are not so worn so are causing problems. When I
started running I pulled a muscle inside my left hip (my left leg is
shorter than my right) which took some time to heal but which I have
never suffered from again. One possibility is to try a small heel lift
in the non-dominant leg.

Peter
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Beach Runner said:

However, this started after she switched shoes. The most logical thing
to do is to find the same pair of shoes she had success with.

Oh no, that can't be, they were "fitted by a professional".

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:17:57 GMT, [email hidden] (Peter

Ashby) said:

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:55:47 GMT, [email hidden] (Peter

Ashby) said:

If I bounced
while stretching cold I would almost certainly pull something, but I'm
not at all sure that would be true while warm. So

Like I said, your ignorance is holding you back. Stretching causes
injurys, and I've got over 20 without one, due to NOT stretching. I'm
sorry, but if you think bouncing is appropriate anytime, you know
jackshit about stretching. Stop stretching, give it several weeks for
everything to get back to normal, and do a proper warmup (walk, or run
slowly) and your injurys will be far and few between.

Since you have obviously failed to read and understand the rest of my
post, which you snipped, I see little point in continuing to discuss
this with you since your mind appears to be closed on the issue.

Peter

No Peter, I snipped the part I was not responding too. You have a deep
misunderstanding of stretching. I run 9 miles a day for over 20 years
with no injurys SINCE I quit stretching.

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:23:21 GMT, [email hidden] (Peter

Ashby) said:

It is entirely possible that for eg she has legs of slightly different
length

<SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEECH> You really need to give us the whole picture
before asking for advice. This is a spinal misalignment issue. The
only exception would be if her legs have been that way since birth, a
very rare occurence. Find a good, qualified chiropractor that has been
in biz at least 20 years.
Any other questions?
You're welcome

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:17:57 GMT, [email hidden] (Peter

Ashby) said:

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:55:47 GMT, [email hidden] (Peter
Ashby) wrote:

> If I bounced
>while stretching cold I would almost certainly pull something, but I'm
>not at all sure that would be true while warm. So

Like I said, your ignorance is holding you back. Stretching causes
injurys, and I've got over 20 without one, due to NOT stretching. I'm
sorry, but if you think bouncing is appropriate anytime, you know
jackshit about stretching. Stop stretching, give it several weeks for
everything to get back to normal, and do a proper warmup (walk, or run
slowly) and your injurys will be far and few between.

Since you have obviously failed to read and understand the rest of my
post, which you snipped, I see little point in continuing to discuss
this with you since your mind appears to be closed on the issue.

Peter

No Peter, I snipped the part I was not responding too. You have a deep
misunderstanding of stretching. I run 9 miles a day for over 20 years
with no injurys SINCE I quit stretching.

And I wrote that my experience is that I get injured if I do not. I also
included a point that people are different and dogmatic generalisations
are unhelpful. What about those two points are too hard for you
understand?

Peter
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On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:48:05 GMT, [email hidden] (Peter

Ashby) said:

And I wrote that my experience is that I get injured if I do not. I also
included a point that people are different and dogmatic generalisations
are unhelpful.

I agree, however I see about 90% of runners have no clue how to
stretch properly, I see it daily. Stretching might help an 80YO man,
but not the average person.

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:48:05 GMT, [email hidden] (Peter

Ashby) said:

And I wrote that my experience is that I get injured if I do not. I also
included a point that people are different and dogmatic generalisations
are unhelpful.

I agree, however I see about 90% of runners have no clue how to
stretch properly, I see it daily. Stretching might help an 80YO man,
but not the average person.

Then I'm not an average person. But what do I know I have only raced since
1979??
martin

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:19:11 +0200, Roeret <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Then I'm not an average person. But what do I know I have only raced since
1979??
martin

Ok, I grant you that you aren't average. AAMOF I have never met an
average guy.

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:48:05 GMT, [email hidden] (Peter

Ashby) said:

And I wrote that my experience is that I get injured if I do not. I also
included a point that people are different and dogmatic generalisations
are unhelpful.

I agree, however I see about 90% of runners have no clue how to
stretch properly, I see it daily. Stretching might help an 80YO man,
but not the average person.

Okay enough generalisation. Unless and until you can cite a study which
proves the above assertion I shall assume you are talking out of the
orifice between your gluteal muscles.

Peter

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