Honey?

J.Lef said:

I am not a large consumer of honey, but use honey in my daily
teas, in my pizza crusts and occassionaly in a recipe.
Now is it me, but the sweetness factor of the grocery store
honeys (all the major labels) has seen to gone down, especially in the last
two or three years. My taste buds are just fine with everything else, so I
know its not me.
Am I just imagining this, or is it possible, manufacturers are
somehow diluting the honey somehow, even though the ingrediants say just
honey?

It's you. People are born with just so many taste buds. Actually they
have many more prior to birth than after, and lose more than half of
what remains within the first few years of life... and continue to lose
taste buds throughout life at a pretty steady rate. If you are over
thrity you have already lost all but a relatively few. This is why the
elderly tend to have problems eating properly, not only does their
sense of taste become profoundly diminished, their sense of smell
too... sight and hearing as well. What makes you think you're any
different? Whenever you see middle aged people depicted as
professional tasters (coffee, chocolate, wine, beer, etc.) that's a
total fraud... they no longer have what to taste with. When I see over
fiftys sniffing, swishing, and slurping wine like the know what they're
doing I laugh, it would need to be Listerine before they could say,
especially the french, how can they sniff wine when they can't even
smell their own aroma from not bathing for a year. hehe

Sheldon

"J.Lef" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:VduFf.3457$pY.1931@trndny01...

Quoted message said:

I am not a large consumer of honey, but use honey in my daily
teas, in my pizza crusts and occassionaly in a recipe.
Now is it me, but the sweetness factor of the grocery store
honeys (all the major labels) has seen to gone down, especially in the
last two or three years. My taste buds are just fine with everything
else, so I know its not me.
Am I just imagining this, or is it possible, manufacturers are
somehow diluting the honey somehow, even though the ingrediants say just
honey?

Thanks

The flavor of the honey is going to be different depending on where the bees
have been gathering nectar. It might be that the big brands are going for
the most bland flavor they can find so that they can keep it consistent. But
to be honest, I haven't bought a name-brand honey in a long time. There are
plenty of local places here that sell all sorts of more interesting honeys.
One local place even has tasters so you can compare. It's all pretty darned
sweet, but there are differences in the flavors even through the sweetness.
Maybe it's that richness of flavor that you're missing.

J.Lef said:

I am not a large consumer of honey, but use honey in my daily
teas, in my pizza crusts and occassionaly in a recipe.
Now is it me, but the sweetness factor of the grocery store
honeys (all the major labels) has seen to gone down, especially in the last
two or three years. My taste buds are just fine with everything else, so I
know its not me.
Am I just imagining this, or is it possible, manufacturers are
somehow diluting the honey somehow, even though the ingrediants say just
honey?

Tastes do change as we get older so it is possible that you're not
perceiving sweetness the same as you did. Honey hasn't changed.
Perhaps you're using a different brand or buying honey made from
different flower blossoms, but honey tends to be uniformly sweet. If
the ingredients say "honey," you've got honey. Anything is possible,
but I'd be very surprised if you were getting diluted honey somehow.
Besides the labeling laws, honey is just hard to dilute or adulterate.
You'd be able to see it.

--Lia

Julia Altshuler wrote on 05 Feb 2006 in rec.food.cooking

Quoted message said:

J.Lef said:

I am not a large consumer of honey, but use honey in my
daily
teas, in my pizza crusts and occassionaly in a recipe.
Now is it me, but the sweetness factor of the grocery
store
honeys (all the major labels) has seen to gone down, especially in
the last two or three years. My taste buds are just fine with
everything else, so I know its not me.
Am I just imagining this, or is it possible, manufacturers
are
somehow diluting the honey somehow, even though the ingrediants say
just honey?

Tastes do change as we get older so it is possible that you're not
perceiving sweetness the same as you did. Honey hasn't changed.
Perhaps you're using a different brand or buying honey made from
different flower blossoms, but honey tends to be uniformly sweet. If
the ingredients say "honey," you've got honey. Anything is possible,
but I'd be very surprised if you were getting diluted honey somehow.
Besides the labeling laws, honey is just hard to dilute or adulterate.
You'd be able to see it.

--Lia

perhaps the honey you've had sitting in your cupboard/fridge for a while
has evapourated a tad...loosing water ...hence increasing sweetness a
bit.

--
The eyes are the mirrors....
But the ears...Ah the ears.
The ears keep the hat up.

"J.Lef" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:VduFf.3457$pY.1931@trndny01...

Quoted message said:

I am not a large consumer of honey, but use honey in my daily
teas, in my pizza crusts and occassionaly in a recipe.
Now is it me, but the sweetness factor of the grocery store
honeys (all the major labels) has seen to gone down, especially in the
last two or three years. My taste buds are just fine with everything
else, so I know its not me.
Am I just imagining this, or is it possible, manufacturers are
somehow diluting the honey somehow, even though the ingrediants say just
honey?

Thanks

Some of the last honey labels I've looked at in the grocery stores have
honey combined from perhaps 3 different continents or countries, or both.

I love honey on its own, so I buy honey produced in Italy. Friday I found
in Wegman's acacia honey from Germany. I'm glad to see that there are still
some honey producers, instead of gather-and-bottle companies.
Dee Dee

J.Lef said:

I..., even though the ingrediants say just
honey?

Thanks

Eating local honey makes your allergies go away

make shure it's local, then you're eating the stuff that's toppin ur
nodt upt

Yes, Dear?

Switch said:

J.Lef said:

I..., even though the ingrediants say just
honey?

Thanks

Eating local honey makes your allergies go away

make shure it's local, then you're eating the stuff that's toppin ur
nodt upt

My wife has bad allergies but does not eat honey. I have some allergies,
but I eat honey once or twice a week, and I always buy local honey, and
my allergies aren't too bad.

J.Lef said:

Am I just imagining this, or is it possible,
manufacturers are somehow diluting the honey somehow,
even though the ingrediants say just honey?

The U.S. has pretty strong laws to prevent this,
an a beekeeping lobby that makes sure they stay
that way.

That said, the U.S. honey industry has been devastated
by the varroa mite in recent years. Maybe you've
been using imported honey?

http://www.ucdavis.edu/spotlight/0405/bee_mites.html

J.Lef said:

I am not a large consumer of honey, but use honey in my daily
teas, in my pizza crusts and occassionaly in a recipe.
Now is it me, but the sweetness factor of the grocery store
honeys (all the major labels) has seen to gone down, especially in the last
two or three years. My taste buds are just fine with everything else, so I
know its not me.
Am I just imagining this, or is it possible, manufacturers are
somehow diluting the honey somehow, even though the ingrediants say just
honey?

Thanks

They are "diluting" it in a way. A lot of commercial honey is farmed. Many
man-made hives are "salted" with sugar to allow bees to produce with
little or no nectar and many come with a man-made comb. It is also common
for farmers to pull the honey several times a "growing season" which does
does not allow for the seasoning that occurs when honey is left to "ripen"
in the comb.

Elaine, too

Elaine Parrish said:

J.Lef said:

I am not a large consumer of honey, but use honey in my daily
teas, in my pizza crusts and occassionaly in a recipe.
Now is it me, but the sweetness factor of the grocery store
honeys (all the major labels) has seen to gone down, especially in the last
two or three years. My taste buds are just fine with everything else, so I
know its not me.
Am I just imagining this, or is it possible, manufacturers are
somehow diluting the honey somehow, even though the ingrediants say just
honey?

They are "diluting" it in a way. A lot of commercial honey is farmed. Many
man-made hives are "salted" with sugar to allow bees to produce with
little or no nectar and many come with a man-made comb. It is also common
for farmers to pull the honey several times a "growing season" which does
does not allow for the seasoning that occurs when honey is left to "ripen"
in the comb.

You don't have a clue about honey, not a clue.

Sheldon said:

J.Lef said:

I am not a large consumer of honey, but use honey in my daily

It's you. People are born with just so many taste buds. Actually they
have many more prior to birth than after, and lose more than half of
what remains within the first few years of life... and continue to lose
taste buds throughout life at a pretty steady rate.

sheldon, Can you give a reference for this? I just did a little
research and found the statement that all of the taste buds are
replaced about every twelve days until we reach our 70's or 80's.
This would indicate that we still have our complete senseof taste
until late in life.
Thanks in advance.

If you are over

Quoted message said:

thrity you have already lost all but a relatively few. This is why the
elderly tend to have problems eating properly, not only does their
sense of taste become profoundly diminished, their sense of smell
too... sight and hearing as well. What makes you think you're any
different? Whenever you see middle aged people depicted as
professional tasters (coffee, chocolate, wine, beer, etc.) that's a
total fraud... they no longer have what to taste with. When I see over
fiftys sniffing, swishing, and slurping wine like the know what they're
doing I laugh, it would need to be Listerine before they could say,
especially the french, how can they sniff wine when they can't even
smell their own aroma from not bathing for a year. hehe

Also, please give a good reference or documentation that the French do
not bathe.

Quoted message said:

Sheldon

Mark Thorson said:

J.Lef said:

Am I just imagining this, or is it possible,
manufacturers are somehow diluting the honey somehow,
even though the ingrediants say just honey?

The U.S. has pretty strong laws to prevent this,
an a beekeeping lobby that makes sure they stay
that way.

That said, the U.S. honey industry has been devastated
by the varroa mite in recent years. Maybe you've
been using imported honey?

http://www.ucdavis.edu/spotlight/0405/bee_mites.html

Many of the wildflower fields have been destroyed
by development, also. The bees have fewer annd fewer
nectar sources and I am sure that affects the flavor
of the honey.

gloria p

Puester said:

Many of the wildflower fields have been destroyed
by development, also. The bees have fewer annd fewer
nectar sources and I am sure that affects the flavor
of the honey.

We need a bee and honey expert. If the bees have fewer nectar sources,
wouldn't that affect the quantity of honey, not the sweetness? And
wouldn't differing nectar sources, as from different flowers, affect the
flavor notes but not the overall sweetness? (Those are real,
non-sarcastic questions.) (I always feel the need to label my questions
as such on this newsgroup.)

--Lia

Elaine Parrish said:

They are "diluting" it in a way. A lot of commercial honey is farmed.

It is all "farmed" in the sense that someone is managing the hives.

Quoted message said:

Many
man-made hives are "salted" with sugar to allow bees to produce with
little or no nectar and many come with a man-made comb.

Not true, some are fed when used for pollination on nectar poor crops,
or early in the season to promote brood buildup, but not to produce
honey, it would be tough to do econimically. THe point in honey
production is to use the bees to collect an otherwise hard to collect
substance - nectar.

Quoted message said:

It is also common
for farmers to pull the honey several times a "growing season" which does
does not allow for the seasoning that occurs when honey is left to "ripen"
in the comb.

Not true, once the honey has a water content of 18% or so it is ready to
consume. This is about the point that bees "cap" it. No need for it to
"ripen"

This method of management also preserves individual crops of varietal
honey, and some folks like different varieties.

You might pick up a decent beekeeping book, there are dozens and they
are realtively inexpensive.

Keith

Keith Benson said:

Elaine Parrish wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They are "diluting" it in a way. A lot of commercial honey is farmed.

It is all "farmed" in the sense that someone is managing the hives.

Yeah, well, just as sure as I say *all* somebody comes along with the
exceptions. haha

You may well be correct in all the points you made. I've only known 2
beekeepers, both elderly men and neither a commercial farmer, and both
more than 30 years ago.

Both produced wonderful honey that was much better than anything
"store-bought".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Many
man-made hives are "salted" with sugar to allow bees to produce with
little or no nectar and many come with a man-made comb.

Not true, some are fed when used for pollination on nectar poor crops,
or early in the season to promote brood buildup, but not to produce
honey, it would be tough to do econimically. THe point in honey
production is to use the bees to collect an otherwise hard to collect
substance - nectar.

Yes, this is in keeping with what they both said in our conversations.

It was my understanding that bees make honey out of nectar and nectar is
just flavored sugar in liquid form. And, that bees will make honey out of
any nectar that they can get. And that bees make honey because they eat
honey and they store it in the comb to feed themselves during the winter.

According to both men, if honey bees have access to sugar in liquid form
and water, they will make honey. The quality of the honey depends on the
quality of the sugar supply.

In the second year of a drought, one of the men put out thick liquid sugar
for his bees. I don't know what kind. He said he did it for several
reasons. He wanted his bees to have enough honey to be able to make it
through the winter and he didn't want them to abandon the hive and go else
where and he wanted them to reproduce as normal, which he said they would
not do in time of "famine".

When he checked the hives to see it the bees were making enough honey, he
pulled some of it off. When he let me taste it, I remarked that it didn't
taste like "his" honey, but was more like "store-bought". He said that was
because he had "salted the hives". He said that it was a common trick to
equal out Mother Nature, and some commerical farmers used it to meet
production when nature didn't cooperate, which was often if they tried to
farm more honey than the surrounding land would naturally accommodate.
This man was in his 70s 30 years ago, so I don't know what his frame of
reference was.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is also common
for farmers to pull the honey several times a "growing season" which does
does not allow for the seasoning that occurs when honey is left to "ripen"
in the comb.

Not true, once the honey has a water content of 18% or so it is ready to
consume. This is about the point that bees "cap" it. No need for it to
"ripen"

Again, this may well be true. And again, I was going on what the two men
said. They said that the honey should be left in the hive as long as
possible before pulling it, but pulled soon enough for the bees to
replenish the stock for winter. They said that the bees heated and cooled
the hives (something about air flow and little beating bee wings; sorry,
it's been a long time) and that the honey "cured" do to the
conditions (again, that could have just been their perceptions).

Quoted message said:

This method of management also preserves individual crops of varietal
honey, and some folks like different varieties.

I always thought that it was interesting how they managed to produce a
specific variety of honey. If bees aren't variety specific and you don't
stomp out every other flowering tree, shrub, and plant, how do they
control what bees make honey out of?

Quoted message said:

You might pick up a decent beekeeping book, there are dozens and they
are realtively inexpensive.

It looks like I need to do that.

Thanks for the information.

Quoted message said:

Keith

Elaine, too

"Elaine Parrish" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

You may well be correct in all the points you made. I've only known 2
beekeepers, both elderly men and neither a commercial farmer, and both
more than 30 years ago.

We used to have a professional beekeeper here on rfc, I
wonder how she's doing, from time to time. She had interesting
stories about travelling around with their hives, and selling their
honey to the big ... honey buyers.

She went by the name busybee.

nancy

"Elaine Parrish" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
snip

Quoted message said:

I always thought that it was interesting how they managed to produce a
specific variety of honey. If bees aren't variety specific and you don't
stomp out every other flowering tree, shrub, and plant, how do they
control what bees make honey out of?

snip

Quoted message said:

Elaine, too

Around here as you travel down the roads past fields you will see
open-sided sheds where bees are placed during a crop season. Beekeepers
contract with field owners to place their bees in particular areas. So if
the bees are surrounded by acres and acres of alfalfa or fruit orchards, it
stands to reason the bees are going to use that for their source. A lot of
mint oil is produced around here and that honey has a distinctive taste. We
had a hobbyist that lived across the street from us and kept bees in his
backyard. His bees used whatever was available in a large residential
neighborhood for their source and that honey had a 'heavier' taste. I would
imagine that the super-efficient spin filters available to the big-brand
companies would produce a different taste and mouth feel than the small spin
filters available to the hobbyist. Not that there is anything wrong with
the efficient filters, but it just seems to me that any little bits of waxy
matter in the honey would change the taste. Raw honey also has a different
taste than honey that has been heated. All personal opinion. . .
Janet

Nancy Young said:

"Elaine Parrish" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

You may well be correct in all the points you made. I've only known 2
beekeepers, both elderly men and neither a commercial farmer, and both
more than 30 years ago.

We used to have a professional beekeeper here on rfc, I
wonder how she's doing, from time to time. She had interesting
stories about travelling around with their hives, and selling their
honey to the big ... honey buyers.

She went by the name busybee.

nancy

The commercial (national brand) honeys are a blend, so are pretty much
homogenous/identical flavored/colored regardless where/when bottled.
The local private label honeys are not blended so are representive of
whatever flora is present at any given time and so are prone to major
changes in taste/color from one batch to another.. There is no way to
make "artificial" honey, nor is there any need to, honey bees do a
wonderful/plentiful job. There are many websites that explain the
honey story in great detail. These days most ten year olds know more
about the birds and the bees than Elaine, obviously.