Hot cocoa

Ed said:

Recently I have experimented with hot cocoa made from cocoa powder and
whole milk. Many of the recipes warn not to boil the milk, but I have
found that it tastes more chocolaty if it all boils for a short time.
If I boil it while stirring well and none of it burns onto the bottom of
the pan, is this a problem? Is that what is meant by scorching? Do some
really think it is better totally unboiled but just heated up?

If you like the hot cocoa made by your method, then by all means continue to
use that method! I mix the cocoa powder and sugar together, then add water
little by little while stirring until I get a smooth paste. THAT is what I
boil, then I slowly add milk to the boiling syrup.

Cooking changes the taste of milk; that may be why recipes warn against
boiling the milk. The term "scorching" refers to milk or cocoa burned onto
the bottom of the pan. The term "scalding" simply means heating the milk up
until its flavor changes. I think that temperature is somewhere around
180F.

I get an uncooked-dairy note by adding a little half-and-half to the cocoa
after it's done cooking. (I can't take credit for that method; it's from
Cook's Illustrated.)

Bob

Dr. Edward Warren said:

Recently I have experimented with hot cocoa made from cocoa powder and whole
milk. Many of the recipes warn not to boil the milk, but I have found that
it tastes more chocolaty if it all boils for a short time.
If I boil it while stirring well and none of it burns onto the bottom of the
pan, is this a problem? Is that what is meant by scorching? Do some really
think it is better totally unboiled but just heated up?
Thank you,
Edward Warren

When I make hot chocolate I much prefer it with scalded milk rather
than just heated up. Although, many times I take the low road and
nuke the milk until merely heated.

I even like plain scalded milk.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Curly Sue wrote on 24 Feb 2006 in rec.food.cooking

Quoted message said:

Dr. Edward Warren said:

Recently I have experimented with hot cocoa made from cocoa powder
and whole milk. Many of the recipes warn not to boil the milk, but I
have found that it tastes more chocolaty if it all boils for a short
time. If I boil it while stirring well and none of it burns onto the
bottom of the pan, is this a problem? Is that what is meant by
scorching? Do some really think it is better totally unboiled but
just heated up? Thank you,
Edward Warren

When I make hot chocolate I much prefer it with scalded milk rather
than just heated up. Although, many times I take the low road and
nuke the milk until merely heated.

I even like plain scalded milk.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

I use hot water, powdered milk, dutch processed cocoa, a pinch of ground
chipotle chile, cinamon stick (optional) and sugar. Plus on rare
occassions brandy.

--
-Alan

Mr Libido Incognito said:

Curly Sue wrote on 24 Feb 2006 in rec.food.cooking

Quoted message said:

Dr. Edward Warren said:

Recently I have experimented with hot cocoa made from cocoa powder
and whole milk. Many of the recipes warn not to boil the milk, but

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have found that it tastes more chocolaty if it all boils for a

short

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

time. If I boil it while stirring well and none of it burns onto

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bottom of the pan, is this a problem? Is that what is meant by
scorching? Do some really think it is better totally unboiled but
just heated up? Thank you,
Edward Warren

When I make hot chocolate I much prefer it with scalded milk rather
than just heated up. Although, many times I take the low road and
nuke the milk until merely heated.

I even like plain scalded milk.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

I use hot water, powdered milk, dutch processed cocoa, a pinch of
ground
chipotle chile, cinamon stick (optional) and sugar. Plus on rare
occassions brandy.

--
-Alan

Tried "Abulita" Mexican comercial drinking chocolate? I bring the milk
to almost a boil, drop in the chocolate, using twice as much as the
package directions indicate and froth with the molinillo while it
returns to the boil.

DO NOT substitute the Spanish "Ibara" brand, it is IMO a waste of
money.
---
JL

"Bob Terwilliger" <virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ed said:

Recently I have experimented with hot cocoa made from cocoa powder and
whole milk. Many of the recipes warn not to boil the milk, but I have
found that it tastes more chocolaty if it all boils for a short time.
If I boil it while stirring well and none of it burns onto the bottom of
the pan, is this a problem? Is that what is meant by scorching? Do

some

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

really think it is better totally unboiled but just heated up?

If you like the hot cocoa made by your method, then by all means continue

to

Quoted message said:

use that method! I mix the cocoa powder and sugar together, then add

water

Quoted message said:

little by little while stirring until I get a smooth paste. THAT is what I
boil, then I slowly add milk to the boiling syrup.

Cooking changes the taste of milk; that may be why recipes warn against
boiling the milk. The term "scorching" refers to milk or cocoa burned

onto

Quoted message said:

the bottom of the pan. The term "scalding" simply means heating the milk

up

Quoted message said:

until its flavor changes. I think that temperature is somewhere around
180F.

I get an uncooked-dairy note by adding a little half-and-half to the cocoa
after it's done cooking. (I can't take credit for that method; it's from
Cook's Illustrated.)

Bob

I like the way you phrased that. If I heat the milk and do not scald it,
then there is a definite "milk note" that to my taste overrides some of the
cholcolate note. Do you find that that taste is more to the liking of some
people? Is this what probably causes many recipes to read more like yours?
Thank you,
Edward Warren

Dr. Edward Warren said:

"Bob Terwilliger" <virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ed said:

Recently I have experimented with hot cocoa made from cocoa powder and
whole milk. Many of the recipes warn not to boil the milk, but I have
found that it tastes more chocolaty if it all boils for a short time.
If I boil it while stirring well and none of it burns onto the bottom of
the pan, is this a problem? Is that what is meant by scorching? Do

some

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

really think it is better totally unboiled but just heated up?

If you like the hot cocoa made by your method, then by all means continue

to

Quoted message said:

use that method! I mix the cocoa powder and sugar together, then add

water

Quoted message said:

little by little while stirring until I get a smooth paste. THAT is what I
boil, then I slowly add milk to the boiling syrup.

Cooking changes the taste of milk; that may be why recipes warn against
boiling the milk. The term "scorching" refers to milk or cocoa burned

onto

Quoted message said:

the bottom of the pan. The term "scalding" simply means heating the milk

up

Quoted message said:

until its flavor changes. I think that temperature is somewhere around
180F.

I get an uncooked-dairy note by adding a little half-and-half to the cocoa
after it's done cooking. (I can't take credit for that method; it's from
Cook's Illustrated.)

Bob

I like the way you phrased that. If I heat the milk and do not scald it,
then there is a definite "milk note" that to my taste overrides some of the
cholcolate note. Do you find that that taste is more to the liking of some
people? Is this what probably causes many recipes to read more like yours?
Thank you,
Edward Warren

Ed, have you tried steamed/frothed milk - as in the ones for cappacino?

"Mr Libido Incognito" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Curly Sue wrote on 24 Feb 2006 in rec.food.cooking

Quoted message said:

Dr. Edward Warren said:

Recently I have experimented with hot cocoa made from cocoa powder
and whole milk. Many of the recipes warn not to boil the milk, but I
have found that it tastes more chocolaty if it all boils for a short
time. If I boil it while stirring well and none of it burns onto the
bottom of the pan, is this a problem? Is that what is meant by
scorching? Do some really think it is better totally unboiled but
just heated up? Thank you,
Edward Warren

When I make hot chocolate I much prefer it with scalded milk rather
than just heated up. Although, many times I take the low road and
nuke the milk until merely heated.

I even like plain scalded milk.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

I use hot water, powdered milk, dutch processed cocoa, a pinch of ground
chipotle chile, cinamon stick (optional) and sugar. Plus on rare
occassions brandy.

--
-Alan

Hmm - ground chipotle? If Penzy's doesn't have it, then who does?
Santa Fe Chili, Nope!
Where did you get this ingredient? Whoa! I've never used it in hot
chocolate, but I guess it might be an ingredient in the little round
chocolate round doo-daddies that are of Mexican origin. But that brand
usually catches in my throat -- perhaps too much cinnamon.
Need ground chipotle,
Dee Dee

"Joseph Littleshoes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mr Libido Incognito said:

Curly Sue wrote on 24 Feb 2006 in rec.food.cooking

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:31:57 GMT, "Dr. Edward Warren"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>Recently I have experimented with hot cocoa made from cocoa powder
>and whole milk. Many of the recipes warn not to boil the milk, but

I

Quoted message said:

>have found that it tastes more chocolaty if it all boils for a

short

Quoted message said:

>time. If I boil it while stirring well and none of it burns onto

the

Quoted message said:

>bottom of the pan, is this a problem? Is that what is meant by
>scorching? Do some really think it is better totally unboiled but
>just heated up? Thank you,
>Edward Warren
>
When I make hot chocolate I much prefer it with scalded milk rather
than just heated up. Although, many times I take the low road and
nuke the milk until merely heated.

I even like plain scalded milk.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

I use hot water, powdered milk, dutch processed cocoa, a pinch of
ground
chipotle chile, cinamon stick (optional) and sugar. Plus on rare
occassions brandy.

--
-Alan

Tried "Abulita" Mexican comercial drinking chocolate? I bring the milk
to almost a boil, drop in the chocolate, using twice as much as the
package directions indicate and froth with the molinillo while it
returns to the boil.

DO NOT substitute the Spanish "Ibara" brand, it is IMO a waste of
money.
---
JL

Yes, it is the Ibara brand that sticks in my throat. I threw it out! Why
keep it around -- its awful. I discovered I have some South
American/Mexican or whatever brands that I bought at a Mexican store
"Luker" and "Corona" but they are only chocolate, no additions. Have you
ever seen these two brands, Luker and Corona?
Thanks for the "Abulita" tip.
Dee Dee

Dee Randall said:

"Mr Libido Incognito" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Curly Sue wrote on 24 Feb 2006 in rec.food.cooking

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:31:57 GMT, "Dr. Edward Warren"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

> Recently I have experimented with hot cocoa made from cocoa powder
> and whole milk. Many of the recipes warn not to boil the milk,
> but I have found that it tastes more chocolaty if it all boils for
> a short time.
When I make hot chocolate I much prefer it with scalded milk rather
than just heated up. Although, many times I take the low road and
nuke the milk until merely heated.

Sue(tm)

I use hot water, powdered milk, dutch processed cocoa, a pinch of
ground chipotle chile, cinamon stick (optional) and sugar. Plus on
rare occassions brandy.
--
-Alan

Hmm - ground chipotle? If Penzy's doesn't have it, then who does?
Santa Fe Chili, Nope!
Where did you get this ingredient?
Dee Dee

Yep, Penzey's has ground chipotle. I used a bit the other day (along with a
bit of ground ancho and Mexican oregano) to season black beans as a side
dish.

Jill

"jmcquown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dee Randall said:

"Mr Libido Incognito" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Curly Sue wrote on 24 Feb 2006 in rec.food.cooking

> On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:31:57 GMT, "Dr. Edward Warren"
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> Recently I have experimented with hot cocoa made from cocoa powder
>> and whole milk. Many of the recipes warn not to boil the milk,
>> but I have found that it tastes more chocolaty if it all boils for
>> a short time.
> When I make hot chocolate I much prefer it with scalded milk rather
> than just heated up. Although, many times I take the low road and
> nuke the milk until merely heated.
>
> Sue(tm)

I use hot water, powdered milk, dutch processed cocoa, a pinch of
ground chipotle chile, cinamon stick (optional) and sugar. Plus on
rare occassions brandy.
--
-Alan

Hmm - ground chipotle? If Penzy's doesn't have it, then who does?
Santa Fe Chili, Nope!
Where did you get this ingredient?
Dee Dee

Yep, Penzey's has ground chipotle. I used a bit the other day (along with
a
bit of ground ancho and Mexican oregano) to season black beans as a side
dish.

Jill

Ah, ha! I found them - finally - it on the penzy's site. Thanks for
answering.

I've been food processing a can of chipotle, leaving it in the frig, and
adding a little spoonful to my black beans.

I have a container of dried green chili peppers, which I like a lot (not
jalapenos), but I don't know where I got them. VERY HOT! I use them
sometimes in Indian food.

Thanks,
Dee Dee

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dee Randall said:

Hmm - ground chipotle? If Penzy's doesn't have it, then who does?
Santa Fe Chili, Nope!
Where did you get this ingredient? Whoa! I've never used it in hot
chocolate, but I guess it might be an ingredient in the little round
chocolate round doo-daddies that are of Mexican origin. But that brand
usually catches in my throat -- perhaps too much cinnamon.
Need ground chipotle,
Dee Dee

I bought a can of Wicked hot chocolate mix from Jacques Torres. Very
chocolate with a hint of chile.

Here's the details on his website. I'm sure you could play with adding
the same extras to your hot chocolate.

http://www.mrchocolate.com/detail.aspx?ID=54

marcella

jmcquown wrote on 25 Feb 2006 in rec.food.cooking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I use hot water, powdered milk, dutch processed cocoa, a pinch of

Quoted message said:

ground chipotle chile, cinamon stick (optional) and sugar. Plus on
rare occassions brandy.
--
-Alan

Hmm - ground chipotle? If Penzy's doesn't have it, then who does?
Santa Fe Chili, Nope!
Where did you get this ingredient?
Dee Dee

Yep, Penzey's has ground chipotle. I used a bit the other day (along
with a bit of ground ancho and Mexican oregano) to season black beans
as a side dish.

Jill

Just a little chipotle...too much takes over the taste...a pinch adds
background character and just a hint of heat.

--
-Alan

"Marcella Peek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dee Randall said:

Hmm - ground chipotle? If Penzy's doesn't have it, then who does?
Santa Fe Chili, Nope!
Where did you get this ingredient? Whoa! I've never used it in hot
chocolate, but I guess it might be an ingredient in the little round
chocolate round doo-daddies that are of Mexican origin. But that brand
usually catches in my throat -- perhaps too much cinnamon.
Need ground chipotle,
Dee Dee

I bought a can of Wicked hot chocolate mix from Jacques Torres. Very
chocolate with a hint of chile.

Here's the details on his website. I'm sure you could play with adding
the same extras to your hot chocolate.

http://www.mrchocolate.com/detail.aspx?ID=54

marcella

Thanks, Marcella,
Saved and filed!
Dee Dee

Dee Randall said:

Joseph Littleshoes said:

Mr Libido Incognito said:

Curly Sue wrote

"Dr. Edward Warren"w rote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
I use hot water, powdered milk, dutch processed cocoa, a pinch of
ground
chipotle chile, cinamon stick (optional) and sugar. Plus on rare
occassions brandy.

--
-Alan

Tried "Abulita" Mexican comercial drinking chocolate? I bring the

milk

Quoted message said:

to almost a boil, drop in the chocolate, using twice as much as the
package directions indicate and froth with the molinillo while it
returns to the boil.

DO NOT substitute the Spanish "Ibara" brand, it is IMO a waste of
money.
---
JL

Yes, it is the Ibara brand that sticks in my throat. I threw it
out! Why
keep it around -- its awful. I discovered I have some South
American/Mexican or whatever brands that I bought at a Mexican store
"Luker" and "Corona" but they are only chocolate, no additions. Have
you
ever seen these two brands, Luker and Corona?
Thanks for the "Abulita" tip.
Dee Dee

Nope, never heard of them. "Little Grandmother" (Abulita) is a just add
milk, traditonal Mexican chocolate with all the extras.

Well..."traditonal" in the modern sense. its not made with chicken stock
as i understand the Mexicans originaly made there chocolate drink.
---
JL

at Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:31:57 GMT in
<[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
(Dr. Edward Warren) wrote :

Quoted message said:

Recently I have experimented with hot cocoa made from cocoa powder and
whole milk. Many of the recipes warn not to boil the milk, but I have
found that it tastes more chocolaty if it all boils for a short time.
If I boil it while stirring well and none of it burns onto the bottom of
the pan, is this a problem? Is that what is meant by scorching? Do
some really think it is better totally unboiled but just heated up?

I'm curious - do you eat and enjoy a lot of Hershey's milk chocolate? If
so, this is why you might interpret the flavour as "more chocolatey".
Hershey's milk chocolate departs from almost every other manufacturer -
they use liquid milk instead of powdered when making their chocolate.
Because of the process involved, the net result is that Hershey's milk
chocolate always has a very distinct "cooked-milk" taste to it. If you eat
a lot of Hershey's, you may associate that with the taste of chocolate and
believe it's an aspect of chocolate's basic flavour.

It's also true that chocolate, when heated, tastes stronger than it does at
room temperature (because the heat evaporates volatiles). However, once
heated and cooled, of course, it tastes less strong because you've
evaporated off those flavour components.

In addition, with continued heating and stirring, the chocolate flavour
will infuse into the milk. The net flavour isn't really any more intense,
but it's more evenly distributed and will therefore have a mellower, richer
quality to it.

Scorching, BTW, is instantly recognisable once you've done it. The
chocolate takes on a decidedly bitter tone and will certainly taste a
little burnt. Scorched chocolate might not be completely burnt but it's
certainly at least a little burnt.

You can successfully make a really great, super-cocoa-ey hot chocolate
without boiling the milk, but you have to heat it *slowly* and keep it warm
with the cocoa stirred in for some time. This slow process yields good
results but you need to be prepared to set aside 30 minutes or so. Not so
good given the usual situation - you want it right away.

--
Alex Rast
[email hidden]
(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

"Alex Rast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

at Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:31:57 GMT in
<[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
(Dr. Edward Warren) wrote :

Quoted message said:

Recently I have experimented with hot cocoa made from cocoa powder and
whole milk. Many of the recipes warn not to boil the milk, but I have
found that it tastes more chocolaty if it all boils for a short time.
If I boil it while stirring well and none of it burns onto the bottom of
the pan, is this a problem? Is that what is meant by scorching? Do
some really think it is better totally unboiled but just heated up?

I'm curious - do you eat and enjoy a lot of Hershey's milk chocolate? If
so, this is why you might interpret the flavour as "more chocolatey".
Hershey's milk chocolate departs from almost every other manufacturer -
they use liquid milk instead of powdered when making their chocolate.
Because of the process involved, the net result is that Hershey's milk
chocolate always has a very distinct "cooked-milk" taste to it. If you eat
a lot of Hershey's, you may associate that with the taste of chocolate and
believe it's an aspect of chocolate's basic flavour.

It's also true that chocolate, when heated, tastes stronger than it does

at

Quoted message said:

room temperature (because the heat evaporates volatiles). However, once
heated and cooled, of course, it tastes less strong because you've
evaporated off those flavour components.

In addition, with continued heating and stirring, the chocolate flavour
will infuse into the milk. The net flavour isn't really any more intense,
but it's more evenly distributed and will therefore have a mellower,

richer

Quoted message said:

quality to it.

Scorching, BTW, is instantly recognisable once you've done it. The
chocolate takes on a decidedly bitter tone and will certainly taste a
little burnt. Scorched chocolate might not be completely burnt but it's
certainly at least a little burnt.

You can successfully make a really great, super-cocoa-ey hot chocolate
without boiling the milk, but you have to heat it *slowly* and keep it

warm

Quoted message said:

with the cocoa stirred in for some time. This slow process yields good
results but you need to be prepared to set aside 30 minutes or so. Not so
good given the usual situation - you want it right away.

--
Alex Rast
[email hidden]
(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

Thank you for that information. I do like Hersheys milk chocolate actually.
I
will try cooking the hot cocoa longer and slower to see how that works. My
preference in cocoa is for Dutch processed. I find that Hersheys has an
acidic quality that is unpleasant and I like the taste of Droste and
Valrhona which have had that acidity neutralized. It also seems that a
preference for scalded or
unscalded milk may be an individual preference. I may actually be a person
who likes his milk scalded.
Thank you,
Edward Warren

Salutations, everyone

You might like to make your
own "Instant Cocoa Mix", which will cost less (and have fewer
additives) than the commercial brands.

The 'classic' formula ("inspired" (if I remember correctly (?)) by
a column Marian Burros wrote for the Washington Post in 1974 or
so...) is:

13 1/2 tablespoons instant nonfat dry milk
( one '1-Quart envelope' )
4 1/2 tablespoons cocoa
4 1/2 tablespoons sugar
dash salt
cinnamon to taste
( if you don't like cinnamon in your cocoa, leave it out )
( or maybe nutmeg or ground cloves (very little needed), instead ? )

You may want to fool around with the 3/1/1 proportions some - a
bit more cocoa, a bit less sugar.

I tried leaving out the salt, and didn't think the omission was an
improvement.

( If you can get one of the 1 1/2 tablespoon scoops that used to
come with cans of ground coffee, 'twill make all this easier )

Anyway, put all that stuff into a recycled peanut-butter jar or
some other airtight container with a secure lid, and shake it up well.

When you want some hot cocoa;

Fill a mug 1/4 full of cold water. Add 3 tablespoons of the
mixture and stir well until it dissolves. Fill the mug to 3/4
full with boiling water and stir. Fill the mug to the top with
milk, stir again, and drink up.

(The dry milk solids won't dissolve in hot water - if you don't
liquefy them in cold water first, you'll get unappetizing brown
sludge at the bottom.)

A diabetic friend of mine was wondering if an appetizing lower-
sugar version would be possible, so I tried:

13 1/2 tablespoons instant nonfat dry milk
( one '1-Quart envelope' )
4 1/2 tablespoons cocoa
* 1 1/2 tablespoons sugar
dash salt
cinnamon to taste ( if you don't like cinnamon in your cocoa,
leave it out ... )

[ same preparation procedure ]

Seemed pretty good, but further experimentation showed that a drop
of vanilla extract ( *genuine* vanilla extract, if you please )
added to the cold water improved it a great deal.

I'm currently experimenting to find out if you can add the vanilla
extract while mixing up the mix, without ending up with a mix full
of lumps. I have been told there is a 'powder-vanilla-extract'
available at some specialty food stores, may find it sometime and give
it a try.

Any other suggestions ?

Hope you find this useful and/or tasty.

Keep warm !

Yours, John Desmond