How broke can I get?

lucien2 said:

So I have ordered myself a Seven Axiom steel. I now must choose a gruppo. Centaur seemed to be a good choice, being a durable 10 spd drivetrain, but.....it is $350 more than Ultegra. So I throw it to the wisdom of this fine group of riders. Centaur, or Ultegra and pocket the difference?

Believe in yourself . Do what makes you feel the best. Life is way too short to try and sort things out. If you got the money go for the gusto.

Your Seven definitely deserves a Dura-Ace group. This is the one place not to scrimp. You will never regret your decision.

What do you find more comfortable and easier to use, Campy or Shimano style shifting? There's your answer.

$350 either way is not a huge extra amount to spend in the grand scheme of things (especially as you're comparing Campy-10 to Shimano-9), since you'll be interacting often with whatever you choose every time you ride.

Quoted post said:

Your Seven definitely deserves a Dura-Ace group...You will never regret your decision.

Until he gets the chance to ride a Campy group someday, then he'll be kicking himself for not getting it the first time! 😉

But seriously, as other's have said, it comes down to personal preference. I've had both Ultegra & Centaur. The Ultegra is good stuff, it works as it's supposed to and I had it on my current frame when I bought it. But I've always been a bigger proponent of Campy for the following reasons:

1. Campy's Ergolevers fit my hands better - more comfortable in the long run. YMMV.

2. I like the thumb shifter for upshifts rather than the STI lever. Just personal preference.

3. Campy Ergo's can skip several gears quickly with a single shift, Shimano can't.

4. Campy cables are hidden under the bar tape, Shimano's have to stick out in the breeze. A matter of aesthetics/preference of course, and some argue there's less wind resistance with hidden cables.

5. Campy is repairable and therefore is a better long-term investment, whereas Shimano basically has to trashed when it's worn out.

6. Campy cassettes are much easier to optimize for custom gearing, and easier to replace worn individual cogs because most Campy cogs are not pinned together like most Shimano's. (Doesn't apply so much to Record/Chorus and Dura Ace cassettes)

7. Campy's shifting has a better overall 'feel' when shifting than Shimano, and seems cleaner and less clunky on the shifts. Again this is mainly a personal preference, but IMO an important one.

8. Until Ultegra goes 10 speed, Campy 10v gives you that extra gear that is missing on a 9v cogset - such as the 16T or 18T. For example: I hate the fairly wide gap between 15T & 17T on a Shimano 12-25, (12/13/14/15/17/19/21/23/25) so having the 16T with the Campy 12-25 is almost mandatory for me, (12/13/14/15/16/17/19/21/23/25). The missing 18T is not as bothersome to me, but you can have both with Campy 13-26, (13/14/15/16/17/18/19/21/23/26). Once again: "Your Mileage May Vary"!

IMO, the price of Chorus is not as cost-effective as Centaur's price. But if you're a weight-weenie then it may be worth it to you. Functionally, there is no difference between them. Then again, it's always nice to have the carbon bits for the 😎 factor.

No one said the choices were going to be easy!!

Best way to decide is take a few demo rides on both a Campy and Shimano group and directly compare them. Then when you've decided - whip out the payment, run like hell, and don't look back!

Wurm said:

Until he gets the chance to ride a Campy group someday, then he'll be kicking himself for not getting it the first time! 😉
...

Shimano or Campy is all personal preference. My suggestion of Dura-Ace was answering his original question which seemed to be 'should he go with a top drawer group or save the money?'

Since bikes tend to be long term investments, I would always rather buy the best I can afford rather than spend 2-3 years wishing I had.

A lot of good points to consider, and I appreciate the detailed breakdown on Campy- seems to explain the some of the price difference. As a person in the wine business, I am fully aware that the remainder of the difference is wrapped up in the current strength of the Euro. Yech.

If you are going all out, just bite the bullet and equip your new bike with Campagnolo Record, with all the shiny carbon bits. That way, even if you do not ride, you can just sit there and oooh and ahhh at your bike and feel content... 😄

Powerful Pete said:

If you are going all out, just bite the bullet and equip your new bike with Campagnolo Record, with all the shiny carbon bits. That way, even if you do not ride, you can just sit there and oooh and ahhh at your bike and feel content... 😄

Or, why not equip it with Dura-Ace and that way you will never be content to just sit and look at it. LOL 🙂

😎 Record, eh?

Um...if I put Record on this baby, I won't be able to ride it OR admire it, because I be chained to the doghouse! :eek:

Seven steel? Great choice! No matter what you choose to equip it with! What color did you go with?

I've never owned a Campy equipped bike but I've always wanted to. I can't speak about the differences in functonality between Ultegra and Centaur. But I'd say the Centaur has less of a "me too" feel to it than Ultegra from a style standpoint. That'll be one sweet ride when you're done building it. Enjoy!

Wurm said:

Until he gets the chance to ride a Campy group someday, then he'll be kicking himself for not getting it the first time! 😉

I have only riden shimano, but I am curious about the mechanics of ergo shifters... I like my STI, I can shift up or down from a variety of positions on the bars. I have never actually seen campy geer in person. I understand one of the levers is on the inboard side of the hood, is this correct? Is it easily reached from the drops? Does the lever get in the way when riding on the hoods?

tamman2000 said:

I have only riden shimano, but I am curious about the mechanics of ergo shifters... I like my STI, I can shift up or down from a variety of positions on the bars. I have never actually seen campy geer in person. I understand one of the levers is on the inboard side of the hood, is this correct? Is it easily reached from the drops? Does the lever get in the way when riding on the hoods?

I've wondered the same thing! It doesn't seem like that thumb button could be reached from the drops. Not sure if I'd like that or not. Still more convenient than a downtube shifter I guess.

meehs said:

Seven steel? Great choice! No matter what you choose to equip it with! What color did you go with?

I've never owned a Campy equipped bike but I've always wanted to. I can't speak about the differences in functonality between Ultegra and Centaur. But I'd say the Centaur has less of a "me too" feel to it than Ultegra from a style standpoint. That'll be one sweet ride when you're done building it. Enjoy!

I chose Mint. Not quite Bianchi mint, but still seems to have a retro continental feel to my eyes, which is the emotional tug of Campy at this point, as well.

lucien2 said:

I chose Mint. Not quite Bianchi mint, but still seems to have a retro continental feel to my eyes, which is the emotional tug of Campy at this point, as well.

I'd go for Chorus, Record or DA. Centaur/Ultegra is great for off-the-shelve bikes, but just isn't up to the prestige level of a Seven, IMO. You've already decided to spend a bunch of money for a status bike, so why not go all the way?

At OEM build-kit prices, the difference shouldn't be all that much. If you don't get Chorus/Record or DA now on your new Seven, when will you get it?

dhk said:

At OEM build-kit prices, the difference shouldn't be all that much. If you don't get Chorus/Record or DA now on your new Seven, when will you get it?

Oh that's a good question. With my first child 6 weeks away, the answer is probably, "when do we finish paying for college?" That would make me 56 years old. I like your thinking, I'll see how persuasive it is with mommy. 😄

Oh BTW, a friend is offering me a set of 2000 Mavic Cosmos rims with about 1800 miles on them. I was going to use Cosmos anyway...should I take him up on his offer? They're free.

lucien2 said:

So I have ordered myself a Seven Axiom steel. I now must choose a gruppo. Centaur seemed to be a good choice, being a durable 10 spd drivetrain, but.....it is $350 more than Ultegra. So I throw it to the wisdom of this fine group of riders. Centaur, or Ultegra and pocket the difference?

With a wicked frame like that, i would get the best i could, within my budget. It'll be better for you, in the long run, from what i understand; & you won't always be wondering what it would have been like !!!

lucien2 said:

Oh that's a good question. With my first child 6 weeks away, the answer is probably, "when do we finish paying for college?" That would make me 56 years old. I like your thinking, I'll see how persuasive it is with mommy. 😄

Oh BTW, a friend is offering me a set of 2000 Mavic Cosmos rims with about 1800 miles on them. I was going to use Cosmos anyway...should I take him up on his offer? They're free.

Well, I AM 56 years old, and the kids are out of college. This would explain different perspectives on getting what we want and dealing with mommy.

I'd take the free wheels; I think Cosmos are durable wheels, and perfect for club rides and training. Besides, you can explain to your wife how this savings more than offsets the additional cost of the gruppo you really want.

😄 perfect! the voice of experience from our theoretical future!! I figure this is the bike (and gruppo) I'll be riding for at least a decade before anything major gets upgraded. I'm currently in negotiations to go Centaur or maybe even *gasp* Chorus! :eek:

Record is overkill for me, I think. I don't see myself racing.

[quote="lucien2"]😄 perfect! the voice of experience from our theoretical future!! I figure this is the bike (and gruppo) I'll be riding for at least a decade before anything major gets upgraded. I'm currently in negotiations to go Centaur or maybe even *gasp* Chorus! :eek:

I'll turn 56 the 19th of next month, my son is out of college, married and probably will make me a grand-dad in a couple of years. I just bought a Pegoretti Palosanto and built it up with Chorus using the build kit at GVH Bikes (with some upgrades here and there).

Gary is very good about working with you to get what you want, so you might talk to him about the build kit minus the wheels. Price for the complete kit for 2004 Centaur is $1150 (double or triple) and for Chorus it's $1550. The rims included are Mavic Open Pros, hubs and the Campy groupset, spokes are Wheelsmith, to give you some idea for cost comps.