How long should components last

in message <[email hidden]>, POHB

(') said:

Is this a case of "they don't make them like they used to?"

9- and 10- speed chains are significantly narrower than 5 speed ones, so
the pressures are higher (because the same load is spread across a
smaller area). So they wear faster.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Tony Blair's epitaph, #1: Tony Blair lies here.
Tony Blair's epitaph, #2: Trust me.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, POHB

(') said:

Is this a case of "they don't make them like they used to?"

9- and 10- speed chains are significantly narrower than 5 speed ones, so
the pressures are higher (because the same load is spread across a
smaller area). So they wear faster.

And IIRC (someone will probably correct me) the wear is not linear with
pressure so will rise rapidly.

I would reckon on getting several thousand miles out of my chains on
the road bike. The uniglide sprockets have been going for a long time
and have only just been replaced with 7 speed hyperglide. My
commuter/mtb/tourer gets through a few chains a year, maybe. About 2k+
miles each but it does get badly treated, occasionally getting the odd
drop of engine oil (new) to free it when it has got a touch stiff and
rusty. It might get wiped but never gets cleaned (cos I'm lazy and like
jacob's theory.)

...d

mb said:

Arthur Clune said:

Dave B said:

If so (and my maintenence schedule suggests it will be closer to
900 than 1200!) I will have to budget for some purchases in the new
year!

Do you have full length mudguards (not just crud-catcher type things)
on the bike? It makes a vast difference to how long things last

Yes, it does.

Hey Mike,

How did you know I had full length mudguards? :-)

Dave

mb said:

Yes, it does.
I have full mudguards on my winter bike and notice that all the dirt
which normally gets flung away, now falls onto the chainset,
derailleurs, wheels etc etc etc.

Right then, get some mudflaps on the ends.

The dirt doesn't normally get "flung away", it normally isn't even
there. It would be worse without the guards...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Simon Brooke said:

It really depends how much care you've taken of them. You easily _can_
trash a whole transmission in 700 miles, or even less. If your LBS says
yours is on the way out, they may be right.

It really comes down to chain maintenance, and this is really easy and
takes little time.

<URL:http://sheldonbrown.com/chains.html>

With all due deference to Sheldon Brown the beneficent, may Allah shower
blessings upon him, in my experience parafin or white spirits work
better than citrus degreaser. But the basic advice - get the chain off
the bike, into a bottle with something which dissolves grease, shake
thoroughly is absolutely right. Having done that, rinse, allow to
dry /thoroughly/ (two or three hours), lubricate /sparingly/, leave for
the lubricant to penetrate (another two to three hours), wipe off any
excess, put chain back on bike.

Regularly. Ten minutes once a week will keep your bike running well for
thousands of miles.

In my experience, on-the-bike cleaners are fiddly, messy, time consuming,
and don't work nearly so well.

Yes I have come across this chaps web site. Great information.

I really don't have the time to remove chains etc (we have a 6 month old
boy who doesn't sleep much!) and to be honest I don't have the
inclination. I do use one of the chain cleaner devices every so often
(twice in 6 months) and give the chain the occasional wipe and lubrication.

I suppose the bike is a hack bike. Its my commuter and nothing more so I
reckon that this type of maintenance should be enough. Of course if I
could afford and had time for something better.......:-(

Thanks for the information though and I swear to Sheldon that I will try
and clean it more often :-)

Cheers

Dave

POHB said:

changing. How naive! I guess I hadn't actually done many miles in the
first 10 years and it's only in the last 3 I've started really clocking
them up.

This is the clue - you hadn't ridden it much. Things don't wear out if
only used every now and then.

However there are two reasons why stuff will wear out quicker now

1) Narrow chains, cogs etc to allow for more gears. Compare a five speed
chain with a 10 speed one

2) Lack of decent mudguards

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune

Jon Senior said:

My chain cleaning / maintenance schedule included the above, but for the
oiling:

1) Buy a large container of chainsaw oil.
[etc]

While I normally agree with Jon's post, life is just too short for this.

Chains are cheap. Replace frequently.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune

Arthur Clune said:

Jon Senior said:

My chain cleaning / maintenance schedule included the above, but for the
oiling:

1) Buy a large container of chainsaw oil.
[etc]

While I normally agree with Jon's post, life is just too short for this.

Chains are cheap. Replace frequently.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune

Quoted message said:

Chains are cheap? Used to be cheap, nowadays same sort of price as a cassette £15-£20 or more.

Quoted message said:

Chains are cheap? Used to be cheap, nowadays same sort of price as a cassette £15-£20 or more.

For some values of "cheap"... I prefer to resuscitate mine, but if you
figure how long it takes to do it properly and what an unpleasant job it
is against how much your time is worth then even at £20 it isn't
completely reckless throwing that sort of money at it.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Just zis Guy said:

out of a decent quality drivetrain. Of course, if it's cheap, then it
will wear out - and no doubt be replaced with a decent quality one
which will last longer.

That's not always true. Sometimes a cheap component will be heavier and
not as precisely made as a more expensive one, but not wear any faster.

(And for real longevity, you want a three speed hub, 1/8" chain, and
full chaincase, which you can get on a cheap bike with 30 years of their
life already used.....)

Peter Clinch said:

Quoted message said:

Chains are cheap? Used to be cheap, nowadays same sort of price as a
cassette £15-£20 or more.

For some values of "cheap"... I prefer to resuscitate mine, but if
you figure how long it takes to do it properly and what an unpleasant

job

Quoted message said:

it is against how much your time is worth then even at £20 it isn't
completely reckless throwing that sort of money at it.

I don't blame anyone for not doing much/any maintenance -- I don't exactly
enjoy cleaning myself -- but I'm sure some cyclists don't realise how easy
it can be to clean a chain when a quick-release link such as SRAM
Powerlink is installed (these fit Shimano and Campag 8/9-speed chain as
well as SRAM)......

1. Put bike in a medium-high gear.
2. Put newspaper under bike.
3. Undo Powerlink by hand and pull chain off sprockets.
4. Pop chain in a jam jar of white spirit and shake. Repeat with another
fresh jar if you like to give it a rinse.
5. Hang up chain to dry (no scrubbing or further rinsing required at all).
6. Lubricate and fit chain. Tip: fit with chain off chainring (resting on
bottom bracket) then hook it on afterwards.

Save white spirit for next time, when you can pour the liquid into another
jar, leaving the settled solids at the bottom. Discolouration doesn't
matter, although your house will look rather dodgy with jars of
urine-coloured liquid stored all over the place ;-)

That might look like a load of hassle written down but is actually easier
and less messy than using a clamp-on cleaner, as well as doing a much
better job. Handling the white spirit might give you cancer (???:-) but
at least it will clean your hands in the process.

Paraffin and other degreasers will also work but white spirit is my
favourite in terms of power, cleanliness, availability and cost. BTW, it
does not cause rust, IME.

Don't do all this on a new chain until you have to as the original thick
lube inside the links will be stripped and won't be so well replaced by
the lube you add afterwards. However, there comes a time when the dirt
inside does more harm than the good the lube does, I think.
Alternatively, just replace the chain if you can bear the cost.

~PB

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Chains are cheap? Used to be cheap, nowadays same sort of price as a cassette ?15-?20 or more.

10 speed chains are still expensive yes, but 8 speed chains are 7-8 quid. You can pick them
up for a fiver each if you buy a couple at places like the York Rally or similar. 9 speed
chains can be had for about 9 quid at such events.

Since we are talking commuting here, there's no reason not to use the cheap stuff.

Buy a load of chains for a fiver each, swap every 6 months commuting, new cassette every three chains.
Adjust suitably if your commute is long.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune

in message <[email hidden]>, Dave B

(') said:

Quoted message said:

Regularly. Ten minutes once a week will keep your bike running well
for thousands of miles.

I really don't have the time to remove chains etc (we have a 6 month
old boy who doesn't sleep much!) and to be honest I don't have the
inclination.

Well, that's what it comes down to, then. Do a little bit of maintenance,
get reasonable life; don't and pay for new components more often.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.

Peter Clinch said:

mb said:

Yes, it does.
I have full mudguards on my winter bike and notice that all the dirt
which normally gets flung away, now falls onto the chainset,
derailleurs, wheels etc etc etc.

Right then, get some mudflaps on the ends.

"Full mudguards" = half way round the wheels, with a little rubber flap
on the end of the front one (back doesn't really need one, wouldn't do
anything)...

Quoted message said:

The dirt doesn't normally get "flung away", it normally isn't even
there. It would be worse without the guards...

All over the place then 😉
I mean muddy water/mud drips from inside the top of the mudguards onto
the aforementioned chain, wheels etc. Especially on the back wheel.

If I happen to get caught on muddy roads on the mudguardless bikes, I
don't see that happening so much.
Yes, obviously the rest of the bike and me get dirty, just in a
different place. eww.

--
Mike

mb said:

Peter Clinch wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Right then, get some mudflaps on the ends.

"Full mudguards" = half way round the wheels, with a little rubber flap
on the end of the front one (back doesn't really need one, wouldn't do
anything)...

Except stop your mates getting splattered...
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Arthur Clune said:

While I normally agree with Jon's post, life is just too short for this.

Chains are cheap. Replace frequently.

That depends on your commuter bike. I used to commute on the Giant
(nine-speed chain), and for some time I commuted on the 'bent
(eight-speed chain, but took 2.5 chains to complete the loop!).

Jon

Jon Senior said:

That depends on your commuter bike. I used to commute on the Giant
(nine-speed chain), and for some time I commuted on the 'bent
(eight-speed chain, but took 2.5 chains to complete the loop!).

Ah. Bents. That's a little different. You do have the advantage that
the wear is also spread over 2.5 chains mind 🙂

--
Arthur Clune

Arthur Clune said:

Ah. Bents. That's a little different. You do have the advantage that
the wear is also spread over 2.5 chains mind 🙂

Though the crank being well out of the way of the spray from the front
wheel isn't exactly a hindrance, nor the typical habit of running the
chain in teflon tubes. The chain(s) on the Streetmachine are still in
very good order after a few years now.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/