how long to cat 1/2 performance?

[vio765]

im currently a strong cat 5 in my second year of serious training and first year of serious racing. i routinely ride with a local group that has a couple strong cat 4s. i can ride with them, however leading is difficult and i draft about 80% of the time. they dont mind this on the flats, since they admire my willingness to attack them up hills when i have no chance of "winning". anyway, assuming i train train train and race race race, how long should it take to ride with cats 1/2/3 and do my share of the work? BTW, i am patient and willing to work hard. Am i looking at 2-4 years? 3-6?

i know there are many factors: age, genetics, diet, etc. so tell me YOUR stories and experiences.

 

[Woofer]

Not my story but Justin England was a cat 5 (dominating) in September of 2002 and was a competitive elite 1/2 in September of 2003.

http://www.ncnca.org/road/2002/MtTamResults.html
http://www.ncnca.org/road/2003/MtTamalpaisResults.html

 

[whoawhoa]

im currently a strong cat 5 in my second year of serious training and first year of serious racing. i routinely ride with a local group that has a couple strong cat 4s. i can ride with them, however leading is difficult and i draft about 80% of the time. they dont mind this on the flats, since they admire my willingness to attack them up hills when i have no chance of "winning". anyway, assuming i train train train and race race race, how long should it take to ride with cats 1/2/3 and do my share of the work? BTW, i am patient and willing to work hard. Am i looking at 2-4 years? 3-6?

i know there are many factors: age, genetics, diet, etc. so tell me YOUR stories and experiences.

This time last year I was a strong cat 5, right now I am still a 3 but can post tt times that would be very competitive in pro 1/2, and drop some of the 1's I've trained with.

It certainly can be done in a year or so, but keep in mind that it will take a while for your racing smarts to catch up with your fitness, especially in tactical races like crits or flatter road races.

 

[capwater]

If you're such a damn great cat5 why haven't you upgraded yet????? Riding with cat4s and cat3s (and drafting 80% of the time) is far different than racing with them. Baby steps, grasshopper.........

 

[wilmar13]

This time last year I was a strong cat 5, right now I am still a 3 but can post tt times that would be very competitive in pro 1/2, and drop some of the 1's I've trained with.

It certainly can be done in a year or so, but keep in mind that it will take a while for your racing smarts to catch up with your fitness, especially in tactical races like crits or flatter road races.

And genetics play a large role... clearly Justin (and whoawhoa) are gifted and have enough potential to quickly move up... there are those that could train full time and never be a competitive Cat 4. Since you can't do much about your genetic limit, train hard and race smart and the let your results you obtain be your guide since "the time it takes" will be specific to you.

 

[vio765]

i typically race in the IRS (indiana Race Series). they hold races on what the rider assumes his or her catagory is. last year i raced USCF cat 5 and DNF'd my first race. and my season ended early due do an accident. this year i have done a couple crits. the first was an IRS race and the second a USCF. the IRS i felt very strong, but i finished poorly due to a tactical mistake. the USCF race i floundered becuase i wasnt rested enough and the race (cat 4/5) was filled with strong Cat 4's (more like capable Cat 3's) and only a few Cat 5's. i won my catagory becuase i was the only one that finished. anyway, i have a lot to learn. and im very excited about what i will learn as i continue to race. i am tempted to race a Cat 4 race just to see what it is like. i have a C priority race in another 3 weeks and i'll give it a shot there. CONTINUE WITH YOUR STORIES!!!! KEEP THEM COMING!!

 

[RapDaddyo]

I think that attempting to predict how long it will take you to be able to race Cat1/2 is impossible -- too many unknowns. More important is how you spend your training time. I'm not sure you will make maximum progress on group rides. Even if you spend an equal amount of time on front, those are probably short durations (1-2 mins). Unless the average pace is really high, I'm not sure you will get in much quality L4 time. Learning how to draft at speed is useful, but doesn't do much for the physiological adaptations you need.

 

[zaskar]

I think that attempting to predict how long it will take you to be able to race Cat1/2 is impossible -- too many unknowns. More important is how you spend your training time. I'm not sure you will make maximum progress on group rides. Even if you spend an equal amount of time on front, those are probably short durations (1-2 mins). Unless the average pace is really high, I'm not sure you will get in much quality L4 time. Learning how to draft at speed is useful, but doesn't do much for the physiological adaptations you need.

I agree, i use to think group rides was such good training till i got my PM. most group rides are recovery rides.

 

[Doctor Morbius]

...assuming i train train train and race race race, how long should it take to ...

You forgot recover, recover, recover!!! Very important. If it were all just a matter of training hard it would be simple.

Of course RapDaddyo and Zaskar are correct. Impossible to determine.

 

[schmuzzy]

It certainly can be done in a year or so, but keep in mind that it will take a while for your racing smarts to catch up with your fitness, especially in tactical races like crits or flatter road races.

ditto

i can ride with... lead... sprint with... pull... the cat 3/4 guys i ride with.

but ive yet to win a cat 5 race.

i sprint too soon. i sprint too late. i get too frustrated at a slow speed. i dont corner as fast as i should. i dont know when to break away... or how to get others to follow to help in a break away...

(this list can go on for pages)

in short- just because youre strong (which, by the way- drafting 80% of the time- dont assume you are...) only makes you fit enough to play the game.

now you've got to figure out HOW to play the game.

 

[wilmar13]

i know there are many factors: age, genetics, diet, etc. so tell me YOUR stories and experiences.

The other factor that no one mentioned yet is competition pool depth. I was an active racer in college in MD/VA/PA and with the same fitness that it took to remain pack fodder in a 3/4 race, I placed top 10 several times in 1/2/3 races in WV. If you are in southern CA, eastern PA, NY city area or some other cycling hotspot, you will have a much harder time upgrading than if you are somewhere that the level of competition is not too great... but again your results will determine this so get out there and race.

 

[mises]

To be blunt you will probably never get there. That's just the odds. Get over it and enjoy yourself.

 

[vio765]

To be blunt you will probably never get there. That's just the odds. Get over it and enjoy yourself.

Maybe maybe not, but I'm going to try like hell to get there. nothing sounds better than doing an endurance ride at 200-250W for 3-5 hours. and the thought of how many hours of training to get there is a huge bragging right.

 

[RapDaddyo]

Maybe maybe not, but I'm going to try like hell to get there.

Great attitude. If we let statistical probabilities deter us from attempting things, we would never attempt lots of things. For example, ~50% of all marriages end in divorce (in America). So, I guess we shouldn't get married because the odds are not in our favor. And, of course, we shouldn't apply to the most selective colleges and universities because the acceptance rate is so low. And, so on and so on. Who knows what your potential is. You don't know and certainly nobody on this forum knows.

But, you can learn a lot on this forum (and from resources discussed on this forum such as Hunter Allen's and Andy Coggan's book on training and racing with a power meter) about how to go about realizing your cycling potential, whatever it may be. The problem with your thread is that it smacks of arrogance. You would get better answers if you post a thread entitled, "How do I realize my potential?" Good luck.

 

[Catabolic_Jones]

Focus on the process, and not the results, and you will get there; otherwise, you will burn out. Often the cycling game is one of attrition, and guys who have lots of expectations die off from self-recrimination, negative attitudes, etc. Be positive, enjoy the sport, and like Rap and others have said, have a smart plan.

 

[Billsworld]

If you tell me how old you are , I can tell you when you can race masters

 

[vio765]

arrogence: i dont do arrogence. i am just very determined to do my best. i also been using a PT and cyclingpeaks (and TRaining with Power) to help with my training. im 27 now, so if i do achieve my dream goal of Cat1/2 performance, it is probable i will be racing in masters. probably enter some Cat1/2 racers. i think the potential to achieve my dream is possible because i have been fit and active my whole life. over the years i have been involved in swimming, weight lifting, running, speedskating, and moutain biking. none of all that was ever competive, just serious recreation.

but help y'all get a more clear picture, i love cycling and i especially love training. and when i say Cat1/2 performance, i really mean Cat1/2 power. In terms of racing results, I dont think i have that aggressive personality to get high placings. more like mediocre to decent results. but i say that now! in 8 years i may be very focused on winning or i may be happy with Cat3 races. who knows? I just like racing for fun and the thrill (as of now). KEEP RINGING IN WITH YOUR THOUGHTS!!!!

 

[tehpr3chr]

i started racing this year as a cat 5, and after 8 races, moved up to 4 (my 8th race i finished 1st). i have been racing 4's since march, and have yet to chock up a top 10 finish yet...it's what all these guys are saying...it's all about your race smarts...there are guys i train with on my team finishing better than me that i know i'm faster than, but yet, they're older and wiser...and recovery is very important like i saw noted...i just had to take 1 1/2 weeks off due to overtraining...just play it smart and remember that probably 1% of the population race bikes, and 1% of those go 1,2,pro...probably .5% of those go internation pro....don't get your hopes up, but remember that when the time comes that you seem to keep getting 11th and 12th place finishes over and over (like me), that you're on a plateu...when you get off that and finally reach a higher area of race smarts and fitness, IT'S BEAUTIFUL!!! i'm still waiting to get there tho...lol

 

[tehpr3chr]

arrogence: i dont do arrogence. i am just very determined to do my best. i also been using a PT and cyclingpeaks (and TRaining with Power) to help with my training. im 27 now, so if i do achieve my dream goal of Cat1/2 performance, it is probable i will be racing in masters. probably enter some Cat1/2 racers. i think the potential to achieve my dream is possible because i have been fit and active my whole life. over the years i have been involved in swimming, weight lifting, running, speedskating, and moutain biking. none of all that was ever competive, just serious recreation.

but help y'all get a more clear picture, i love cycling and i especially love training. and when i say Cat1/2 performance, i really mean Cat1/2 power. In terms of racing results, I dont think i have that aggressive personality to get high placings. more like mediocre to decent results. but i say that now! in 8 years i may be very focused on winning or i may be happy with Cat3 races. who knows? I just like racing for fun and the thrill (as of now). KEEP RINGING IN WITH YOUR THOUGHTS!!!!

aggressiveness is very important imo...i'm 22 right now, and i go out with an attitude that there are gonna be guys out there better than me, but if i'm a more aggressive rider, while still respecting the other riders, i can find this hole and that to move myself up!

 

[Billsworld]

Just joking. Best of luck with your training..