How often to rebuild?

Prometheus7 said:

So often I'd heard the advice to go to the LBS. I have, but I've gotten
differing opinions about rebuilding parts of the bike. I say rebuilding,
but really mean the normal maintenance. For example, how often should one
repack the BB. Or repack the wheels? One mechanic said every 6 months.
Another said never until you have a noticeable problem. I have 6500 miles
on my bike and haven't done anything but change out the chain every year and
keep the bike clean. No noticeable problems. Am I unknowingly on the verge
of a breakdown??? Some of the posts in this group make me think I'm
extremely lucky.

You have, if not luck, then a great touch and a very rugged bike.

You are also due.

I say that because keeping bearings fresh and well lubed means you won't have to
replace parts. Parts cost more. I think 6 months is a bit much unless you put
those miles on in two years. Depends on what you call a "noticeable problem" is
a funny noise or a bit of roughness a "problem?" If you're answer's yes then
listen to the second guy. Otherwise every two, three years just to be sure.

Ron

Quoted message said:

So often I'd heard the advice to go to the LBS. I have, but I've gotten
differing opinions about rebuilding parts of the bike. I say rebuilding,
but really mean the normal maintenance. For example, how often should one
repack the BB. Or repack the wheels? One mechanic said every 6 months.
Another said never until you have a noticeable problem. I have 6500 miles
on my bike and haven't done anything but change out the chain every year
and
keep the bike clean. No noticeable problems. Am I unknowingly on the
verge
of a breakdown??? Some of the posts in this group make me think I'm
extremely lucky.

Depends upon several factors, including-

Your weight
Hilly vs flat riding
How clean you keep your drivetrain (and to a lesser extent, your brake pads)
Whether you ride in the rain or not
Maintaining proper tire pressure

Of those, riding in the rain is, by far, the very worst thing you can do to
your bike. You pick up a lot of road muck that finds its way onto your
drivetrain and brakepads, where it proceeds to wear things down at a very
rapid pace. You also discover that so-called "sealed" bearings, as well as
conventional ones, offer minimal long-term protection against rain.
Eventually water gets past the seals and stays there, rusting away
internally while externally things look fine. This applies particularly to
hubs; higher-quality sealed bottom brackets are actually pretty tough, and
better headsets don't do too badly either.

But let's say you don't ride in the rain. Let's say you're 175 (that would
be me), ride constantly in the hills (that would be me), don't clean your
drivetrain as often as you should (that would be me) but you are religious
about tire pressure (me again). In short, we'll use me as an example. In
general, I get-

Rear tire & chain- about 1800 miles or so. Curious they both run about the
same; high performance tires, by the way. Heavier tires will last longer.

Front tire- goes until something slices it apart. Front tires rarely wear
out; typically road hazards get to them first. If a front tire could wear
out, my guess is that it might go 10k miles or so.

Cassette- I go through one rear cassette every five chains, so figure a bit
under 10k miles.

Chainrings- Usually about 20k miles or so, although shifting begins to
deteriorate around 12k (on a double crankset, shifting is generally affected
only by wear to the larger chainring).

Spokes- Haven't broken a spoke in approximately .35 zillion miles. Non
issue.

Headset- Every 20k miles or so. Would last even longer if I took better care
and overhauled it once in a while.

Brake cables- Never wear out, but not a bad idea to replace every 10k miles,
just to be sure. Brake cables bend around fairly large radii, and are pretty
beefy for the force used with them, so the only time you see one fail is if
it's rubbing against some metal someplace.

Gear cables- With STI or Campy, it's a good idea to replace every 6k miles
or so. Gear cables are pretty thin and curve pretty tightly in the shifters,
so they tend to fail close to their heads. Obviously, someone who shifts
less (doesn't ride in the hills) is going to have longer life.

Brake pads- We said no rain, so with that assumption, probably 6k miles or
so. Sometimes I'll get considerably more, but only if I've *never* ridden
them in the rain. Just a couple of rain rides in the hills can decimate
brake pads.

Bottom bracket- Modern cartridge bottom bracket (such as a Shimano Ultegra),
perhaps 10k miles, sometimes twice that. The older DuraAce bottom bracket
required a complete overhaul twice a year for me, so I gave up on them and
switched to the more-reliable but heavier Ultegra.

Handlebars/stems- This is just now getting some mention; in the old days,
nobody ever bothered replacing them, but they were pretty heavy back then.
Now there's not a whole lot of margin of error with ultra-light designs, so
it probably makes sense to replace bars every 15k miles or so. Stems? Maybe
twice that. Just guessing here. I know mine have been on my bike far too
long, and it's not worth risking a failure there.

==========================================

I think that's about it. Oh, how about an adjustment & inspection schedule?

Wheels- I haven't touched a wheel for truing on my bike in several years. A
well-built wheel, whether "boutique" (I use Bontrager Race X-Lites) or
well-made handbuilt, shouldn't have issues.

Bearing adjustments- Maybe check the headset one a month for looseness by
bouncing the front wheel on the ground and listen for any extra vibration.
If you hear anything, see if it goes away with a *small* amount of
tightening. If not, the headset is either OK or perhaps too tight (loosen up
until you *do* get a bit of extra vibration, and tighten up on enough that
it goes away). For wheels & bottom brackets with cartridge bearings, check
for play once in a while; generally they'll tolerate a small amount of play,
but anything excessive might require replacement (since many aren't
adjustable).

Derailleurs- My derailleurs require adjustment... well, virtually never. As
long as your cables have been properly set in place when installed
(basically the main issue is making sure the ferrules on the ends of the
cable housings are set in place; cables don't actually stretch much at all),
there shouldn't be much need for subsequent adjustment, unless something got
knocked out of place (such as a bent rear derailleur hanger, or a front
derailleur that got rotated a tiny bit after a nasty shift).

Tire pressure- Get religious about this if you have fairly narrow (25c or
less) tires. I check mine by topping them off before every single ride, even
if it's on consecutive days. Your thumb just isn't accurate enough for
judging pressure, and a slow leak might indicate a small puncture caused by
a hard-to-find "Michelin wire" (a tiny piece of wire that's shed by
steel-belted radial car tires when they're driven when worn down to their
casing).

Visual inspection- Mostly tires, looking for cuts that might go down to the
casing, and little embedded rocks & small pieces of glass that might be hard
to find but will cause great amounts of trouble if left in place until
they're pushed through the casing and cause a puncture. Also check for
frayed sidewalls, which can occur if one of your tires glances off a rock.
Also note brake pad wear (which normally proceeds at a predictable, fairly
slow pace *unless* ridden in the rain).

===========================

I'm sure I've left a bunch of things out, but what should stick out is that
your mileage may vary (based upon how/where you ride and if you go out in
the rain) and that it may be silly to bring your bike to the shop for a
"tune up" every six months. Some might need one that often, others might go
several years. And YOUR BIKE DOESN'T REQUIRE A TUNE UP JUST BECAUSE A
CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME HAS PASSED. Amazing how often people will bring in
six-year-old bikes with virtually zero miles for a tune up. I air up the
tubes, check the tires for cracking sidewalls, run through the gears quickly
and generally send them on their way without having to leave the bike for
anything.

OK, to answer the original question about a bike with 6500 miles that hasn't
had anything done to it other than change the chain and keep it clean-
depending upon how many miles/year, could be that the chain is being
replaced more often than it actually needs to! But about this time I'd be
replacing the gear cables. I assume the rear tire has probably already been
replaced, even though it wasn't mentioned.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Brake pads- We said no rain, so with that assumption, probably 6k miles or
so. Sometimes I'll get considerably more, but only if I've *never* ridden
them in the rain. Just a couple of rain rides in the hills can decimate
brake pads.

I once rode my mt. bike from the top of Hwy 9 into Saratoga, in the dirt, on
a rainy day. I had brand new brake pads. I mean zero miles! When I got to
the bottom (in Saratoga) I had zero pads left. ...one of my more expensive
rides.

--
Skuke
Reverse the domain name to send email

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 03:58:25 +0000, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

I'm a bit heavier -- OK, 25lbs heavier, but I hope to drop most of that
Real Soon Now. However, here is my take on this.

Quoted message said:

Rear tire & chain- about 1800 miles or so. Curious they both run about
the same; high performance tires, by the way. Heavier tires will last
longer.

About right for the chain, but I have gotten twice that mileage
consistently with Avocet tires. I recently bought a bunch of Hutchinson
carbon comp tires since they were so cheap at Performance. We'll see if
they last, but I have my doubts they will last as well.

Quoted message said:

Front tire- goes until something slices it apart. Front tires rarely
wear out; typically road hazards get to them first. If a front tire
could wear out, my guess is that it might go 10k miles or so.

I always put a new tire on the front, then move the front to the back. So
this never comes up.

Quoted message said:

Cassette- I go through one rear cassette every five chains, so figure a
bit under 10k miles.

About right with his assumptions about keeping the chain clean. The
fussier you are, the longer the cassettes will last, but this is about
right for me as well.

Quoted message said:

Chainrings- Usually about 20k miles or so, although shifting begins to
deteriorate around 12k (on a double crankset, shifting is generally
affected only by wear to the larger chainring).

I don't do so well with chainrings. But then, I have religious objections
to paying more than $10 for a chainring. Just bought a bunch at $4 per.
I find that they get seriously sharktoothed after no more than 10k, and I
have actually had a chain skip on a small ring. But, like I said, at $4,
it's no big deal.

Quoted message said:

Spokes- Haven't broken a spoke in approximately .35 zillion miles. Non
issue.

Ditto

Quoted message said:

Headset- Every 20k miles or so. Would last even longer if I took better
care and overhauled it once in a while.

Depends on the headset. Standard non-sealed non-fancy headsets, I like to
re-pack every year, which means that I get around to it every other year.
I have a Chris King on my road bike, though, and haven't touched it since
I built it up 3 years ago, and don't plan to for a couple more years at
least.

Quoted message said:

Brake cables- Never wear out, but not a bad idea to replace every 10k
miles, just to be sure.

I donno about that. For a couple bucks, it's cheap insurance to replace
these. Your ass depends on them.

Brake cables bend around fairly large radii, and

Quoted message said:

are pretty beefy for the force used with them, so the only time you see
one fail is if it's rubbing against some metal someplace.

Worry about where they exit/enter the sheaths at either end, since that's
where you'll get rubbing against metal, as well as grit. These are cheap
enough and easy enough to replace annually on your main bike(s).

Quoted message said:

Gear cables- With STI or Campy, it's a good idea to replace every 6k
miles or so. Gear cables are pretty thin and curve pretty tightly in the
shifters, so they tend to fail close to their heads. Obviously, someone
who shifts less (doesn't ride in the hills) is going to have longer
life.

Again, replace annually. Maybe not necessary, but I've seen more than one
schlemiel get stuck in one gear after a cable broke.

Quoted message said:

Brake pads- We said no rain, so with that assumption, probably 6k miles
or so. Sometimes I'll get considerably more, but only if I've *never*
ridden them in the rain. Just a couple of rain rides in the hills can
decimate brake pads.

Oddly, I have found that the Kool-Stop salmon pads on my road bike last a
lot better than that. I do get stuck in the rain on occasion
(Pennsylvania is not Southern California), and even so these pads have
lasted maybe 10k so far and seem to be as good as new. OTOH, I don't
find them to live up to their rep in terms of stopping in the rain, but
they sure do last well. Far better than the Campy pads on my other
bike.

Quoted message said:

Bottom bracket- Modern cartridge bottom bracket (such as a Shimano
Ultegra), perhaps 10k miles, sometimes twice that.

Even cheapo UN-* (what 72, 52, something like that) last a long time.
Plus they are dirt cheap to replace when they do go. Cup and cone bottom
brackets were worse than hubs in terms of collecting crud.

Quoted message said:

Handlebars/stems- This is just now getting some mention; in the old
days, nobody ever bothered replacing them, but they were pretty heavy
back then. Now there's not a whole lot of margin of error with
ultra-light designs, so it probably makes sense to replace bars every
15k miles or so. Stems? Maybe twice that.

What a world. Be reasonable, get cheap bars and stems if you are going to
do that. The combination of outrageous prices for carbon bars with
the need to replace them annually is just absurd. I replace such things
when they show signs of damage. Yeah, we all have friends who did
face-plants when they broke a stem. But how many miles did they have on
that sucker? In the two cases I know, they were many tens of thousands
of miles, I would bet, since they were the original stems on 10-year old
(at least) bikes, and these guys rode a lot.

I had a stem (age about 30) which started making more noise than I was
comfortable with. Never saw a crack, but I replaced it to be safe. Bars
will usually bend before catastrophically failing (at least aluminum ones
will). Replace when they get saggy, which usually is a function of
repeated trauma rather than mere miles.

Quoted message said:

Wheels- I haven't touched a wheel for truing on my bike in several
years. A well-built wheel, whether "boutique" (I use Bontrager Race
X-Lites) or well-made handbuilt, shouldn't have issues.

Should be and reality often diverge. Road hazards can cause trouble.
Check regularly and true when needed -- no big deal.

Quoted message said:

Bearing adjustments- For wheels & bottom brackets
with cartridge bearings, check for play once in a while; generally
they'll tolerate a small amount of play, but anything excessive might
require replacement (since many aren't adjustable).

For wheels with cup-and-cone bearings, re-pack every year or two, or
5000-1000 miles or so. If you have a grease port like some Campy hubs,
you can increase the re-packing interval by regularly shooting grease in
there.

Quoted message said:

Tire pressure- Get religious about this if you have fairly narrow (25c
or less) tires. I check mine by topping them off before every single
ride, even if it's on consecutive days.

Really? I worry about it weekly.

Your thumb just isn't accurate

Quoted message said:

enough for judging pressure,

Works for me.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I can
_`\(,_ | assure you that mine are all greater. -- A. Einstein
(_)/ (_) |

Thank you for the responses. I don't want to be misleading. My LBS does
perform the spin the wheel, turn the crank, tighten cables, 15 minute tune
up. I keep the bike clean. My curiosity started because they never asked
me about the conditions in which I was riding or how many miles I had put on
the bike. It wasn't until I started asking them about it that they started
making suggestions. I'm happy with the bike. I just wanted to know if I
was missing something.

"Prometheus7" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So often I'd heard the advice to go to the LBS. I have, but I've gotten
differing opinions about rebuilding parts of the bike. I say rebuilding,
but really mean the normal maintenance. For example, how often should one
repack the BB. Or repack the wheels? One mechanic said every 6 months.
Another said never until you have a noticeable problem. I have 6500 miles
on my bike and haven't done anything but change out the chain every year

and

Quoted message said:

keep the bike clean. No noticeable problems. Am I unknowingly on the

verge

Quoted message said:

of a breakdown??? Some of the posts in this group make me think I'm
extremely lucky.

Quoted message said:

Prometheus7 said:

So often I'd heard the advice to go to the LBS. I have, but I've

gotten

Quoted message said:

differing opinions about rebuilding parts of the bike. I say

rebuilding,

Quoted message said:

but really mean the normal maintenance. For example, how often

should one

Quoted message said:

repack the BB. Or repack the wheels? One mechanic said every 6

months.

My main maintenance besides the chain is once a year. I just make it an
annual routine schedule to do a tune-up the 1st week of April or (daylight
savings time week). That's cleaning and repacking all the bearings,
(headset, bottom bracket and hubs), taking apart and degreasing the
cassette. I also clean and grease the seatpost and stem. And an overall
general cleaning of the frame and components, also adjustments to the
derailleur if necessary. Inspect all cables, brake-pads and replace if
necessary. For me it takes about 3.5 hours to go through everything at a
comfortable pace.

I also found a great place to order precision ball bearings.
You have to place a minimum order of $15.00, but you can mix and match the
balls.
http://www.precisionballs.com/
For grease, regular Valvoline multi-purpose wheel-bearing grease works fine,
$3.00 a pound.
-tom

biketoolsect.com have bearings

wen? if youy check the bike before riding and every 100 miles for
bearing runout, straight lines in the power transmission system then
your doing preventive maintenence.
the pulleys? often
headset and BB? once a year at 2500 miles per or every two-three years
with bearings just to change the grease.
do everything before touring.
i find the parts fall apart wear out with long mileage even even when
regular service
at 100 miles per week or more the bike takes 3-4 hours every sunday
and i'm behind!

I have a very old bike that was not ridden much and i think that at
the absolute minimum, you need to repack the bearings every 3-5 years
even if the bicycle is NOT RIDDEN AT ALL !! The grease can dry out /
congeal and then you are just running on dry bearings and the bike
won't last long if used in this way ...

When you repack bearings you aren't just adding grease; you are
removing contaminants (not just dirt but also winter salt), and
coating exposed metal with oils (preventing rust), and those two
secondary benefits are worth doing.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Prometheus7 said:

So often I'd heard the advice to go to the LBS. I have, but

I've gotten

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

differing opinions about rebuilding parts of the bike. I say

rebuilding,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but really mean the normal maintenance.

Just my opinions here...

Quoted message said:

For example, how often should one
repack the BB.

If it's sealed, never. If it's not sealed, I'd repack at five

years

Quoted message said:

or four worn out chains, whichever comes first. Others'

opinions will

Quoted message said:

vary.

Quoted message said:

Or repack the wheels? One mechanic said every 6 months.
Another said never until you have a noticeable problem.

I go for somewhere between those extremes; if the bike gets

used in

Quoted message said:

the wet a lot, once a year is probably prudent and adequate as

long as

Quoted message said:

the bearings aren't getting submerged. (If they are, they'll

need to

Quoted message said:

be cleaned and repacked right away.) In dry conditions, I tend

to

Quoted message said:

shoot for two to three years between hub repacks, or every four
chains, whichever comes first.

Modern labyrinth seals are pretty amazing. Even in a wet
climate, I rarely have to repack my hubs -- and usually do so
when they feel gritty and not on any fixed schedule. I repacked
some Shimano SPD pedals on a whim after about five years of
use -- much of that in the rain -- and the factory grease was
still clean. The bottom bracket on my commuter should get more
attention because it rusts and dries out, but that requires
removing the cranks and exerting effort. I will probably do that
once a year. Notwithstanding all the hand wringing about cables,
mine hardly ever break. I have broken far more cranks than
cables. I do not replace them except when they get frayed or
break. Brakes and brake pads are a problem in wet weather. I am
going to dump the cantis on my touring bike and put on an old set
of Campy NRs. STI with cantilevers in the rain -- even with
salmon KoolStops -- sucks. My back brake basically is an
ornament. Big problem for me is eating front rims. I am going
to build a raft of new front wheels -- to go with the raft of
Velocity Aerohead OCs I have built to replace virtually all of my
rear wheels, racing and commuting. -- Jay Beattie.

Prometheus7 said:

So often I'd heard the advice to go to the LBS. I have, but I've

gotten

Quoted message said:

differing opinions about rebuilding parts of the bike. I say

rebuilding,

Quoted message said:

but really mean the normal maintenance. For example, how often

should one

Quoted message said:

repack the BB. Or repack the wheels? One mechanic said every 6

months.

Quoted message said:

Another said never until you have a noticeable problem. I have 6500

miles

Quoted message said:

on my bike and haven't done anything but change out the chain every

year and

Quoted message said:

keep the bike clean. No noticeable problems. Am I unknowingly on

the verge

Quoted message said:

of a breakdown??? Some of the posts in this group make me think I'm
extremely lucky.

Rebuilding (disasembling, cleaning, repacking) is a pain in the butt.
With ports in the dustcaps, just squirt in grease with a gun, adjust
out the slop from wear, and you should be good for many thousand miles.
For portless, holding the wheel horizontally, pressing up against the
lower cone so the bearings won't fall out, loosen the cones just enough
to squirt in some grease, turn the wheel vertical and push the greased
cone in and flip the wheel to the other side to grease the other cone.
Use lots of grease. Water and bad bearing adjustment are your enemy.

For QR hubs not tightened (mounted in the frame), just a hair of side
play on one cone while pushing the opposite cone in hard, is just
right.

Dan Christopherson
Lopez Island WA

The last paragraph of my last post should read:

For QR hubs not tightened (*NOT* mounted in the frame), just a hair of
side
play on one cone while pushing the opposite cone in hard, is just
right.

Dan Christopherson
Lopez Island WA