HR increases
- Thread starter Daniel Thomas
- Start date
peterpen said:
It's the one they simply call "SRM Analysis", which you can perform by clicking on the little icon on the toolbar that shows multi-colored diagonal lines. What is does is:
1) smooths the heart rate and power data using a rolling average the duration of which is specified via the "Analysis" tab of the "Options" pop-up;
2) performs a linear regression of smoothed heart rate vs. smoothed power, while time-shifting the data (to reflect the delay in the change in heart rate following a change in power output) to maximize the R^2 value. This generates a slope and intercept ("zero position") of the heart rate-power relationship, which is then used to predict the power that one could produce at a fixed heart rate of 150 beats/min (PWC150). The optimal "shifting" value is also given.
3) plots the smoothed heart rate vs. the smoothed power, using one of six different colors to represent the different sextiles of the ride (e.g., the 1st 10 min of a 1 h ride is plotted in yellow, the 2nd in red, etc...the ordering is shown by the little multi-colored bar found in the upper right hand corner of the screen).
Applied to the analysis of multiple rides, what you'd expect to find as your cardiovascular fitness improves would be a reduction in the slope and/or intercept of the regression line, resulting in an increase in the PWC150 value. In addition, the time-shift should decrease (although the magnitude of the expected improvement is quite small, and as such, easily overlooked when analyzing data collected in the field instead of a laboratory). Finally, you'd also expect to see less cardiovascular drift, such that the squiggly multi-colored line would remain closer to the regression line, versus the pink or blue parts being above and the yellow or red parts below.
Now for the ironic part: to refresh my memory re. all the details above, I called up one of my wife's recent workouts, which consisted of riding an ergometer at a fixed power of 200 W in our <65 deg F basement with a fan moving air over her at ~5 m/s. Regardless of whether I use the SRM Analysis tool or Friel's approach as implemented in the soon-to-be-released version 2.2 of WKO+, the amount of cardiovascular drift she experienced is minimal (e.g., <4% change in heart rate-power from 1st half to 2nd half of workout, which is how Friel suggests quantifying the amount of cardiovascular drift). Why is this ironic? Because she's been running, not riding, for the last ~2.5 mo, and as a result her cycling fitness has declined considerably...
FWIW I agree with your analysis. I think this sort of picture appears not just when one has gone as far as P/S overtraining but when one starts to suffer from what I understand to be called central fatigue, as per the Oxford Textbook of Sports Medicine, amogst other sources. My understanding of this phenomenon is that whilst the muscles etc. may well have recovered and the CHO stores may well have been replenished "normal" power cannot be produced because of an inability of the CNS to provide the appropriate and required neurological stimulus because of "central" (CNS) or neurological fatigue.acoggan said:
That's my belief and understanding anyway, neurological fatigue is IMHO often forgotten but it's utterly fundamental, without proper neurological recovery and therefore function, put simply noting else works properly. Hence my strong interest in daily HRV measurements, it provides a window to look into the autonomic nervous system and it's condition.
I'll go back to sleep now!
PB
Hidaveryanwyoming said:
I agree. Check out this link, these HR curves were produced over about a month and were during workouts on a callibrated CompuTrainer all at a fixed identical load. I cut one of them short simply because I felt too fatigued. The variations here are caused simply by different fatigue/recovery states related to other training and I am wholly unconvinced that drift is likely to ever be more than a bit of a personal guide to recovery status and never a decent measure of overall training status or a tool to compare athletes. Too many variables.
PB
That's what I was thinking. I'd always look at the PWC150 number and immediately think that I should compare to other similar rides to see if there is a trend and then I'd think, "why isn't the software allowing me to do this easily or doing this for me instead?"acoggan said:
More detail on Friel's HR : Pwr analysis here http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/decoupling.asp
Has anyone used that feature in WKO+? Is it only in a newer build? I don't think I've ever noticed that 'coupling' data field before.
Has anyone used that feature in WKO+? Is it only in a newer build? I don't think I've ever noticed that 'coupling' data field before.
Aw... you're just sour because after 6 years you're still underdeveloped. Less talkie - more ridie.rmur17 said:
Edit: Wait. It's a FREE* update! ...and it looks like it has some other decent stuff besides the HR : Pwr metric. Did Hunter not announce this, or did I miss the announcement in the spam?
* for existing WKO+ 2.x users.
I'm holding off a bit just to see how the transition goes but I worked with an athlete last night that upgraded and it does have a few very nice features. HR decoupling isn't one of them but the summary stats chart on the Athlete's home page is very nice as it gives you a very quick summary of pertinent training stats for recent rides in one convenient place. I also like the new ability to filter individual data series in each chart by sports. So you could have a chart that shows all sports but an individual data series(like best 20 minute power) within that chart that only includes bike workouts. I like that feature a lot as I cross train quite a bit in the winter with XC ski skating and other activities. Right now I have a weekly hours chart for all activities and another for only bike rides. Those could appear as two data series on the same chart in the new SW.frenchyge said:
Discussions on the wattage lists have really convinced me that the HR decoupling feature isn't that useful. Friel only advocates it for isopower rides at Aet or ~55-70% of FTP. That's what he says in his CyclingPeaks article and what he confirmed via email to a wattage list member. How many isopower L2 rides do you do? If I ride L2 it's going to be a longer ride with climbs, descents, headwinds and tailwinds and power will be all over the map. If I do isopower rides they're going to tend to be Tempo or above. Unless someone can find a way to use this new metric for variable power rides at higher intensities then I think it's value will be limited.
Still the new software has some nice features and the price is right
-Dave
Yeah, I thought that looked nice, and additionally the different chart layouts (Perspectives) for Base period, Build period, racing season, etc. looked like it might be fun.daveryanwyoming said:
I might try one with a HR strap just to see what it showed (kinda like one of those free blood-pressure booths at the mall), but I don't think I could tolerate 2-4 hrs on the trainer at 55-70% FTP.daveryanwyoming said:
Besides, I'm pretty confident that I'm below 5% cardiac drift at that power level. That's cooldown pace.
