Hub recommendations

I can't stress this enough. DO NOT get Chris King hubs for your road bike. First, they have a
breakin period that's like more than a year's worth of riding at 250 miles per week. Second, even
after that they're so tight they just don't roll freely. Third, they make an absolutely awful racket
when you're freewheeling on a descent. Honestly ... people won't want to ride with you.

Chris King makes great headsets and those hubs might be great on a mtb, but I had an awful
experience with them on a road bike.

I've got a set of customs I'm currently riding that have the new American Classic rear hub with the
high flange. They've been very good wheels so far (probably about 8,000 miles on them).

FWIW, Bob C. "Raymo853" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Instead of getting a new road bike this fall I am getting myself a kick

bum

Quoted message said:

pair of wheels built up for my current road bike. I am looking for recommendations on hubs and I
consider the desired traits I value the same as I do for mountain wheels. In my view here are my
qualifications in

order:

Quoted message said:

1. smoothness of the bearings
2. durability of the hub overall
3. strength of the axel
4. light weight
5. silent or pretty quiet freewheel
6. 28 hole drilling

This is going to be a time I don't want to care about price. I naturally think of Chris Kings,
American Classics, Hugi or White Industries. I'm considering getting a Paul's for the front since
they no longer make rear shifty hubs but to what I have heard their hubs kick all kind of rump.
Any other ideas?

whiteind.comlta road hubset.htmOpen ↗ amclassic.comRoad Hubs.htmlOpen ↗
dtswiss.comindex.aspOpen ↗ chrisking.comhbs classic.htmlOpen ↗

Raymo853 said:

Instead of getting a new road bike this fall I am getting myself a kick bum pair of wheels
built up for my current road bike. I am looking for recommendations on hubs and I consider the
desired traits I value the same as I do for mountain wheels. In my view here are my
qualifications in order:

1. smoothness of the bearings
2. durability of the hub overall
3. strength of the axel
4. light weight
5. silent or pretty quiet freewheel
6. 28 hole drilling

If you are worried about the strength of the axle in any cassette wheel, then you are carrying too
much weight around for 28 spokes. All axles are strong enough now for loaded touring, much less
racing or whatever you plan for these wheels. Bearing smoothness is also not worth worrying about,
since any friction is well below other factors.

Quoted message said:

This is going to be a time I don't want to care about price. I naturally think of Chris Kings,

Noisiest freewheel on the market. Sounds like one of those model-airplane engines.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front _`\(,_ | of enough
typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of (_)/ (_) | them would reproduce the
collected works of Shakespeare. The internet has proven this not to be the case.

Recommendation: A Shimano Tiagra, or 105 cassette hub.

More than good enough for any application. Benefits:

- Cheap - you could go through several of the Shimano hubs before you get paypack on one of the
boutique hubs. Not that this will happen. A 105 hub properly maintained will easily outlast
several rims.
- Well sealed - a smart design
- Replacement parts can easily be found for every part of these units, including axles, cones,
seals, and freehubs. The left-side ball cups can even be replaced if you are mechanically adept
enough. I never have to go to new replacement parts; since these hubs are so common, there is an
unlimited supply of compatible parts out there. Parts are readily scavenged from MTB wheels with
wrecked rims.
- They don't use the cheapo cartridge bearings as in the hubs made by the small-fry and poor-boy
manufacturers. Shimano has enough manufacturing critical-mass to crank out hub-specific custom
parts. The small fry must depend on cartridge bearings that are tough to relube, are susceptible
to side loading damage, and then cost you $25 a pair at a shop to get replaced. That is if they
can be extracted because they are rusted solid in the hub shell.

And: get 32 or 36 spoke rear wheel. A 28 or less spoke wheel with a light rim is a PITA to keep
true. If you go with a heavier rim to keep it laterally true, then you've defeated much of the
purpose of the low spoke count. I ride 300 gram tubular rims with 36 DT Rev spokes. Hard to get much
lighter than that. Still bombproof.

"Raymo853" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Instead of getting a new road bike this fall I am getting myself a kick

bum

Quoted message said:

pair of wheels built up for my current road bike. I am looking for recommendations on hubs and I
consider the desired traits I value the same as I do for mountain wheels. In my view here are my
qualifications in

order:

Quoted message said:

1. smoothness of the bearings
2. durability of the hub overall
3. strength of the axel
4. light weight
5. silent or pretty quiet freewheel
6. 28 hole drilling

This is going to be a time I don't want to care about price. I naturally think of Chris Kings,
American Classics, Hugi or White Industries. I'm considering getting a Paul's for the front since
they no longer make rear shifty hubs but to what I have heard their hubs kick all kind of rump.
Any other ideas?

whiteind.comlta road hubset.htmOpen ↗ amclassic.comRoad Hubs.htmlOpen ↗
dtswiss.comindex.aspOpen ↗ chrisking.comhbs classic.htmlOpen ↗

raymo-<< I consider the desired traits I value the same as I do for mountain wheels. In my view here
are my qualifications in order:

1. smoothness of the bearings
2. durability of the hub overall
3. strength of the axel
4. light weight
5. silent or pretty quiet freewheel
6. 28 hole drilling >><BR><BR>

Easy, if a shimano guy, DA, if Campagnolo, Record. The others are awash in marketing and complexity,
particularly the American Classic rear. I just had to do a bunch of work on two of them which have
incredibly complicated pawl systems, wre nearly new but rough, loose.

Hard to beat the two mentioned, shimano or Campagnolo.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(7)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Dave Mayer" <[email hidden]> wrote ... <snip>

Quoted message said:

Recommendation: A Shimano Tiagra, or 105 cassette hub.
- They don't use the cheapo cartridge bearings as in the hubs made by the small-fry and poor-boy
manufacturers. Shimano has enough manufacturing critical-mass to crank out hub-specific custom
parts. The small fry must depend on cartridge bearings that are tough to relube, are susceptible
to side loading damage, and then cost you $25 a pair at a shop to get replaced. That is if they
can be extracted because they are rusted solid in the hub shell.

I agree that any Shimano hub is the best bet for the original poster's application (typical road
bike usage).

But I disagree with you about the utility and value of cartridge-bearing hubs. For my commuting
bikes, which are subject to significantly more wet weather than a typical fair-weather road bike,
cartridge-bearing hubs save me a tremendous amount of routine maintenance, i.e. they require none,
compared to cup/cone hubs that I have to repack monthly when subjected to regular, heavy rain.

Sure, cartridge bearings are tough to relube, but why bother trying? They last me many thousands of
miles with exactly zero maintenance, and then I'll pop in some new ones every few years ($5 each at
www.bicycletoolsetc - tinyurl.comorldOpen ↗). I've never had one rust at all, and find that
they're easy to extract and install, with the right tools.

That to me is the way a hub should work - no maintenance other than shoving in bearing cartridges
every few years.

Michael

"Dave Mayer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_oPcb.21952$I36.7215@pd7tw3no...

Quoted message said:

Recommendation: A Shimano Tiagra, or 105 cassette hub.

More than good enough for any application. Benefits:

I have a pair of 600 hubs that I've been riding since the mid-90s. Not quite as chi-chi as the D/A,
but less than half the price... I replaced the bearings with Campy grade bearings ('cause I have a
big ole box of them) but I can't really tell a difference when riding them with the new bearings v.
the old ones.

I have a pair of wheels with Mavic hubs. Very nice. Roll well. I can't tell a big difference between
them and the D/A hubs I have on another pair of wheels when I'm riding them. I inherited the front
Mavic wheel, and found an NOS rear for cheap, so have a [censored] wheelset for not a lot of $$... Some
of my favorite hubs of all time were the Specialized/Sansin sealed bearing hubs from a few years
ago. I've had several pair now. Some were made into track wheels, and I'm still running the front in
a tubular "climbing" wheel. (If y'all really knew me, you'd know how much of a joke THAT is!
Vertically challenged is an understatement! That's why I race at the track...)

The only thing that the wheelset does is inspire people to ooh and aah over them, it doesn't make me
any better of a rider.

Mike

Raymo853 <[email hidden]> wrote:
: Instead of getting a new road bike this fall I am getting myself a kick bum pair of wheels
: built up for my current road bike. I am looking for recommendations on hubs and I consider the
: desired traits I value the same as I do for mountain wheels. In my view here are my
: qualifications in order:

: 1. smoothness of the bearings
: 2. durability of the hub overall
: 3. strength of the axel
: 4. light weight
: 5. silent or pretty quiet freewheel
: 6. 28 hole drilling

: This is going to be a time I don't want to care about price. I naturally think of Chris Kings,
: American Classics, Hugi or White Industries. I'm considering getting a Paul's for the front since
: they no longer make rear shifty hubs but to what I have heard their hubs kick all kind of rump.
: Any other ideas?

I recently got a Ritchey WCS hub on Ebay, and there's a few left, in 28 and 32 hole. I don't know
how good a hub it is, but it was cheap and Ritchey usually seems to have good stuff. One reason I
got it was the narrower flange spacing for less dish. There don't seem to be many of these around,
so it's been hard finding info on them. I'm curious to hear what other folks think of them.

- mark

I will never buy another Shimano hub. I've bent an XT axel in one ride, had another XT freewheel die
in about four months, have a set of ultegra's that felt like awfully unsmooth in just a matter of
months and so on. My days of shimano hubs are over, way over.

"Dave Mayer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_oPcb.21952$I36.7215@pd7tw3no...

Quoted message said:

Recommendation: A Shimano Tiagra, or 105 cassette hub.

More than good enough for any application. Benefits:

- Cheap - you could go through several of the Shimano hubs before you get paypack on one of the
boutique hubs. Not that this will happen. A 105

hub

Quoted message said:

properly maintained will easily outlast several rims.
- Well sealed - a smart design
- Replacement parts can easily be found for every part of these units, including axles, cones,
seals, and freehubs. The left-side ball cups can even be replaced if you are mechanically adept
enough. I never have to go to new replacement parts; since these hubs are so common, there is an
unlimited supply of compatible parts out there. Parts are readily

scavenged

Quoted message said:

from MTB wheels with wrecked rims.
- They don't use the cheapo cartridge bearings as in the hubs made by the small-fry and poor-boy
manufacturers. Shimano has enough manufacturing critical-mass to crank out hub-specific custom
parts. The small fry must depend on cartridge bearings that are tough to relube, are susceptible
to side loading damage, and then cost you $25 a pair at a shop to get

replaced.

Quoted message said:

That is if they can be extracted because they are rusted solid in the hub shell.

And: get 32 or 36 spoke rear wheel. A 28 or less spoke wheel with a light rim is a PITA to keep
true. If you go with a heavier rim to keep it laterally true, then you've defeated much of the
purpose of the low spoke count. I ride 300 gram tubular rims with 36 DT Rev spokes. Hard to get
much lighter than that. Still bombproof.

"Raymo853" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Instead of getting a new road bike this fall I am getting myself a kick

bum

Quoted message said:

pair of wheels built up for my current road bike. I am looking for recommendations on hubs and I
consider the desired traits I value the

same

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

as I do for mountain wheels. In my view here are my qualifications in

order:

Quoted message said:

1. smoothness of the bearings
2. durability of the hub overall
3. strength of the axel
4. light weight
5. silent or pretty quiet freewheel
6. 28 hole drilling

This is going to be a time I don't want to care about price. I naturally think of Chris Kings,
American Classics, Hugi or White Industries. I'm considering getting a Paul's for the front
since they no longer make

rear

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

shifty hubs but to what I have heard their hubs kick all kind of rump.

Any

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

other ideas?

whiteind.comlta road hubset.htmOpen ↗ amclassic.comRoad Hubs.htmlOpen ↗
dtswiss.comindex.aspOpen ↗ chrisking.comhbs classic.htmlOpen ↗

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If you are worried about the strength of the axle in any cassette wheel, then you are carrying too
much weight around for 28 spokes. All axles are strong enough now for loaded touring, much less
racing or whatever you plan for these wheels. Bearing smoothness is also not worth worrying about,
since any friction is well below other factors.

I have bent axels in XT and LX hubs. I don't weigh much, 155, and am a pretty tame off road rider.

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:IMZcb.22176$vj2.2924@fed1read06...

Quoted message said:

"Dave Mayer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_oPcb.21952$I36.7215@pd7tw3no...

Quoted message said:

Recommendation: A Shimano Tiagra, or 105 cassette hub.

More than good enough for any application. Benefits:

I have a pair of 600 hubs that I've been riding since the mid-90s. Not quite as chi-chi as the
D/A, but less than half the price... I replaced

the

Quoted message said:

bearings with Campy grade bearings ('cause I have a big ole box of them)

but

Quoted message said:

I can't really tell a difference when riding them with the new bearings v. the old ones.

Older Shimano stuff is great. Unfortunately the new stuff is not as durable as the old.

Quoted message said:

I recently got a Ritchey WCS hub on Ebay, and there's a few left, in 28 and 32 hole. I don't know
how good a hub it is, but it was cheap and Ritchey usually seems to have good stuff. One reason I
got it was the narrower flange spacing for less dish. There don't seem to be many of these around,
so it's been hard finding info on them. I'm curious to hear what other folks think of them.

not impressed. i tried a rear built with a ritchey ocr rim for a couple of weeks. the combined
result was unimpressive. it wasn't /bad/ per se, but it was no improvement on either my shimano or
campy/mavic wheels and if anything has less lateral stability.

likewise the bearings; while silky smooth when new, they quickly became gritty and harsh - within
100 miles.

last thing; do *not* use on a frame with horizontal drops. even with the q.r. clamped in so tight
you needed a big "pursuader" to get it off, the hub would still slip. that's when i discovered a
little paper photocopy in the bottom of the box saying that the wheel was intended for vertical
drops only. they weren't kidding!

jb

Quoted message said:

I have bent axels in XT and LX hubs. I don't weigh much, 155, and am a pretty tame off road rider.

that's extroardinary.

i'm no lightweight & i've never had a problem. and a friend is 260, crazy free-riding lunatic, and
as strong as anyone i've ever met. and he's never bent a shimano axle either. he wears out bearings,
but that's a differnt story...

is there anything else you can share with us that spreads a little more light on the subject?

jb

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Raymo853
[B]Instead of getting a new road bike this fall I am getting myself a kick bum pair of wheels built up
for my current road bike. I am looking for recommendations on hubs and I consider the desired traits
I value the same as I do for mountain wheels. In my view here are my qualifications in order:

1. smoothness of the bearings
2. durability of the hub overall
3. strength of the axel
4. light weight
5. silent or pretty quiet freewheel
6. 28 hole drilling

This is going to be a time I don't want to care about price. I naturally think of Chris Kings,
American Classics, Hugi or White Industries. I'm considering getting a Paul's for the front since
they no longer make rear shifty hubs but to what I have heard their hubs kick all kind of rump. Any
other ideas?

I agree with Peter Chisolm:
Dura Ace if your shifters are Shimano;
Campy Record if your shifters match Campy.
I have built them all and used most all.
If weight wasn't your #4 criteria, I would have considered Phil Wood.
Next, consider the quality of your builder and selection of rims based on your weight and riding style.

David Ornee, Western Springs, IL

Raymo853 said:

I will never buy another Shimano hub. I've bent an XT axel in one ride, had another XT freewheel
die in about four months, have a set of ultegra's that felt like awfully unsmooth in just a matter
of months and so on. My days of shimano hubs are over, way over.

Your experience is way outside the norm, you know. Most people get years and years of service out of
these hubs.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you're _`\(,_ | still a rat. --Lilly
Tomlin (_)/ (_) |

"Raymo853" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If you are worried about the strength of the axle in any cassette wheel, then you are carrying
too much weight around for 28 spokes. All axles are strong enough now for loaded touring, much
less racing or whatever you plan for these wheels. Bearing smoothness is also not worth worrying
about, since any friction is well below other factors.

I have bent axels in XT and LX hubs. I don't weigh much, 155, and am a pretty tame off road rider.

I never have, and I've been using them for 7-8 years. I weight 235, am not very tame off-road, and
often pull a 100 lb trailer.

"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dave Mayer" <[email hidden]> wrote ... <snip>

Quoted message said:

Recommendation: A Shimano Tiagra, or 105 cassette hub.
- They don't use the cheapo cartridge bearings as in the hubs made by the small-fry and poor-boy
manufacturers. Shimano has enough manufacturing critical-mass to crank out hub-specific custom
parts. The small fry must depend on cartridge bearings that are tough to relube, are
susceptible to side loading damage, and then cost you $25 a pair at a shop to get

replaced.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That is if they can be extracted because they are rusted solid in the hub shell.

I agree that any Shimano hub is the best bet for the original poster's application (typical road
bike usage).

But I disagree with you about the utility and value of cartridge-bearing hubs. For my commuting
bikes, which are subject to significantly more wet weather than a typical fair-weather road bike,
cartridge-bearing hubs save me a tremendous amount of routine maintenance, i.e. they require none,
compared to cup/cone hubs that I have to repack monthly when subjected to regular, heavy rain.

I ride in heavy rain, and all winter (Boston). I use Shimano LX, XT & Ultegra hubs. I repack them
every couple of years, and the grease is clean. You can find LX rear hubs for $20, that's got to be
the best value in cycling.

"Raymo853" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I will never buy another Shimano hub. I've bent an XT axel in one ride,

had

Quoted message said:

another XT freewheel die in about four months, have a set of ultegra's

that

Quoted message said:

felt like awfully unsmooth in just a matter of months and so on. My days

of

Quoted message said:

shimano hubs are over, way over.

Excuse me, but how in the hell did you manage to bend a freehub axle? There's just not that much
axle showing!

Re: Ultegra hubs. You ever take them apart and look to see what was going on?

Mike

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:Xp1db.23771$vj2.10556@fed1read06...

Quoted message said:

Excuse me, but how in the hell did you manage to bend a freehub axle? There's just not that much
axle showing!

Re: Ultegra hubs. You ever take them apart and look to see what was going on?

I too would like to know how it got bent. I strongly suspect it was bent out of the box. It is not
all that bad but I just hate seeing the casssette waver like that and I assume the extra forces
being put on the hub may be the source of the rest of the issues with that hub.

The Ultegra ones are really fine, just not a smooth feeling as the White Ind, Pauls and such
I've seen.

Based on the recommendations from Dirt Rag's forums, I am going to look into Botni wheels and also
ask my local dealer what the rec. for cost no object hubs.

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:Xp1db.23771$vj2.10556@fed1read06...

Quoted message said:

"Raymo853" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I will never buy another Shimano hub. I've bent an XT axel in one ride,

had

Quoted message said:

another XT freewheel die in about four months, have a set of ultegra's

that

Quoted message said:

felt like awfully unsmooth in just a matter of months and so on. My

days

Quoted message said:

of

Quoted message said:

shimano hubs are over, way over.

Excuse me, but how in the hell did you manage to bend a freehub axle? There's just not that much
axle showing!

Re: Ultegra hubs. You ever take them apart and look to see what was going on?

Mike