hypoglycemic near-beginner redux repost

Quoted message said:

It looks like the proposed "cure" is basically to always eat fat
and/or protein with my carbs, while limiting the latter.

I don't have symptoms anything like yours, but I do generally feel
better if I combine carbs, protein, and fat when I eat or drink. A
couple years ago I read "The Zone" (actual title is longer but I forget
exactly what it's called, and by now there's a thousand followup
books), and for a while wife and I made an effort to mostly follow Zone
proportions, portions, and timing (three smallish meals, couple
snacks). We've retained the major principals and a few recipes but
don't get too caught up in the fine print.

I find that I can eat - and benefit from - carbs alone (or with some
protein) during a run, or shortly before or after. But I seem to be at
least an order of magnitude less sensitive to this than you, and this
is for longer runs than a mile or two.

Good luck.

Charlie Pendejo said:

Quoted message said:

It looks like the proposed "cure" is basically to always eat fat
and/or protein with my carbs, while limiting the latter.

I don't have symptoms anything like yours, but I do generally feel
better if I combine carbs, protein, and fat when I eat or drink. A
couple years ago I read "The Zone" (actual title is longer but I forget
exactly what it's called, and by now there's a thousand followup
books), and for a while wife and I made an effort to mostly follow Zone
proportions, portions, and timing (three smallish meals, couple
snacks). We've retained the major principals and a few recipes but
don't get too caught up in the fine print.

I find that I can eat - and benefit from - carbs alone (or with some
protein) during a run, or shortly before or after. But I seem to be at
least an order of magnitude less sensitive to this than you, and this
is for longer runs than a mile or two.

Good luck.

are you hypoglycemic?

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I don't have symptoms anything like yours, but I do generally feel
better if I combine carbs, protein, and fat when I eat or drink.

I'm visualizing a white russian with a yellowtail sushi float.
A terrifying image.

Quoted message said:

A couple years ago I read "The Zone" (actual title is longer but I forget
exactly what it's called, and by now there's a thousand followup
books), and for a while wife and I made an effort to mostly follow Zone
proportions, portions, and timing (three smallish meals, couple
snacks). We've retained the major principals and a few recipes but
don't get too caught up in the fine print.

I do a pre-run 1/2 breakfast, run, breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner.
That adds up to 43,000 calories :-), actually a bit over 2k.

(I don't have HG, although my blood sugar seems to always be on the low side
of normal, which apparently is a plus if you want to live to be 100)

Quoted message said:

I find that I can eat - and benefit from - carbs alone (or with some
protein) during a run, or shortly before or after. But I seem to be at
least an order of magnitude less sensitive to this than you, and this
is for longer runs than a mile or two.

If I have sugar too soon before a run (I don't touch sugar two hours
beforehand), I'll go into the tank. When I eat during a run (usually I get
hungry at the 1.5 - 2 hour mark), I crave something balanced and salty like
a soft chicken taco, or chunk of left over pizza.

Veliger, I wonder if there's any connection between mealtime and the run, or
if drinking or eating is helpful or damaging during or just after the run.

-- Dan

Twittering One said:

Do the same laws apply in The Zone as in the US?

I dunno, I only follow the In-Laws, and only the Falk/Arkin (not the
coaches, Anders!) original at that.

Dan Stumpus wrote:
cp>> I combine carbs, protein, and fat when I eat or drink.

Quoted message said:

I'm visualizing a white russian with a yellowtail sushi float.

My name's not Lebowski, but I do aspire to a certain degree of
Dudeliness, for an east coaster from the midwest anyway. Thanks for
the image.

Quoted message said:

my blood sugar seems to always be on the low side of normal, which
apparently is a plus if you want to live to be 100

100 what?

Oh, to the OP (that's you, Veliger) - I don't know about hypoglycemia,
just that in civilian life outside of running, if I ingest many
(especially sugary) carbs without protein or fat my energy level will
sometimes rocket way up for a bit then almost always plunge way way
down.

Quoted message said:

If I have sugar too soon before a run (I don't touch sugar two hours
beforehand), I'll go into the tank.

I had this happen very early on - I was tired and facing my 3.5 mile
"long" run. Had one of those hateful Charbucks
sugary-milk-with-a-hint-of-coffee drinks to pick me up, got out the
door a while later, and "bonked" at about mile 2.5. Never happened
since. I can get away with e.g. sports drinks or a banana as long as I
start running pretty soon after ingestion.

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm visualizing a white russian with a yellowtail sushi float.

My name's not Lebowski, but I do aspire to a certain degree of
Dudeliness, for an east coaster from the midwest anyway. Thanks for
the image.

The Big L is my favoritist Coen Bros Movie. Did you notice how the fullness
of the drink often fluctuated from cut to cut during the same scene? Sheer
brilliance...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my blood sugar seems to always be on the low side of normal, which
apparently is a plus if you want to live to be 100

100 what?

Cubits.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If I have sugar too soon before a run (I don't touch sugar two hours
beforehand), I'll go into the tank.

I had this happen very early on - I was tired and facing my 3.5 mile
"long" run. Had one of those hateful Charbucks
sugary-milk-with-a-hint-of-coffee drinks to pick me up, got out the
door a while later, and "bonked" at about mile 2.5.

Man, that last mile musta been a real death-march...My bad trip was downing
a quart of gatorade 20 minutes before a 50k mtn race. A total disaster,
culminating with a 10 mile death-shuffle to the finish.

Dan Stumpus said:

Man, that last mile musta been a real death-march...My bad trip was downing
a quart of gatorade 20 minutes before a 50k mtn race. A total disaster,
culminating with a 10 mile death-shuffle to the finish.

are you hypoglycemic? Sorry to try to keep this on topic at least for a
few hours. My death march was a 10 mile cross country snowshoe hike in
18 inches of fresh snow, 10 years ago. I ran out of gas at 8 miles and
death shuffled the last 2 while my healthy partner could have done the
whole thing again, and in fact wanted to and was real disappointed in
me. 10 years later I finally got a doctor to pay attention (its only my
fifth or 10th try in 25 years, 4th in the last 10), only after taking
it upon myself to measure my own blood glucose.

I do not need to be diagnosed as I knew I had this problem. After a long
swim I would eat a bag of Cheerios but then about 2 hours later I had the
symptoms of hyoglycemia. So, I tried adding some protein but still had the
symptoms. Finally, I tried making my first meal after a long workout
straight protein...something like chicken, a hard boiled egg, fish. I eat
that alone and then a few hours later have fruit (like cantelope). Starting
out with just protein has completely eliminated the hypglycemia for me.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I posted this a few months ago, and I finally got to the
endocrinologist who agreed that I have reactive hypogycemia (I already
knew that, since I've been testing my blood glucose for months). I
have only been running 1-2 x per week, and only a couple miles,
otherwise the symptoms recur. A couple weeks ago I ran just 3 miles 3
days in a row and felt dizzy and pretty rotten for almost a week-thats
when I finally went to my GP and asked for referral to the specialist.
He did a bunch of tests and ruled out other illness.

Anyway, I'm just wondering if there are any other hypos out there with
similar problems and how you have dealt with it. I see a dietician
tomorrow (actually just got back, as today is now tomorrow) but I am
skeptical that a few dietary changes are going to eliminate these
rather pronounced symptoms after such short runs. I want to believe
though. I know from email correspondance that at least some hypos can
have dramatic differences once they get on the right diet. Any more of
you/us non-diabetic hypos out there? It looks like the proposed "cure"
is basically to always eat fat/and/or protein with my carbs, while
limiting the latter. Seems to easy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm in my mid-40s, and I've been trying to become a light-moderate
runner off and on for a several years now. Last August I started again,
real slow, built up to about 2.5-3 miles per run at a very slow pace,
about 5 days/week. Then in Dec I quit for a while due to cold and snow
(played hockey at least 1-2x per week, and did some light skiing) , and
started up again a few weeks ago, started with 1-1.5 miles and now I'm
back at about 2.5 miles with 2 rest days between runs.

After (not during) my last 3 runs though, I have suffered from extreme
hunger and lightheadedness for up to 48-72 hours afterward. These
symptoms point toward hypoglycemia, which I have always believed I
have, but they are very unusual in lasting so long. Usually
hypoglycemic incidents last only till I eat something, and the symptoms
are more severe, with sweating, and feeling like I am going to faint.
But then they go right away within minutes. The only thing that makes
me feel better for these run-induced problems is to drink lots and lots
of Gatorade (> 1/2 gallon/day), which, unfortunately, is not really a
good thing for hypoglycemia because it can lead to a major blood sugar
crash. And it has a few times.

Just wondering if this happens to anyone else and what you do, or if
this might be something other than hypoglycemia.

2.5 miles seems like an awfully short run to cause symptoms that last
so long. I dont have this problem when I play hockey, which is much
higher intensity and longer duration, though I get rest breaks. I only
run first thing in the AM because I cant run with food in me (maybe a
bite or two of banana) or I get violent diarrhea all day, but I'm
wondering if I will have to start eating prior. Going all night without
fuel and then running may be just too much for a hypoglycemic. I am
paying closer attention to what I eat, staying away from refined foods
and sugars, and now I'm trying to eliminate caffeine and alcohol (1
beer per night is all I drink) but there is conflicting info on what
hypoglycemics should eat. Much of the info on the web is contradictory
and/or highly suspect (lemon juice enemas anyone?). Doctors are pretty
much useless when it comes to this condition, in my experience. I have
talked to several and they shrug it off, more or less. I am going to
buy a blood sugar tester this week just to prove to myself (and my
doctor) that I really get low blood sugar.

Twittering One said:

Cp ~
Did you get my message?

Apparently not, unless the subject was "The best thing comes in big
parcels" or "multi orgasm pill for men". If you email the address I
use here, that goes to an account I check once or twice a week - if
something looks like non-spam in a fifteen second glance, I'll read it,
otherwise it all gets flushed.

"Veliger" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Man, that last mile musta been a real death-march...My bad trip was
downing
a quart of gatorade 20 minutes before a 50k mtn race. A total disaster,
culminating with a 10 mile death-shuffle to the finish.

are you hypoglycemic? Sorry to try to keep this on topic at least for a
few hours.

The answer is that I don't know, and don't want a diagnosis to mess up any
future application for health ins...

In the above case, I had no energy at the beginning of the race (I'm usually
overflowing after a taper), ran too hard early on trying to keep up with the
folks I usually run with without trying, and hit the wall at 20 miles in a
31 mile race. Not fun.

So I avoid simple carbs before running, and always eat balanced food on my
long runs and afterward (carb + protein + fat). I don't get good results
from slurping goos (pure carb) during long runs or races. At the very
least, I'm sensitive to glycemic bounce, as are a couple of my friends.

Quoted message said:

My death march was a 10 mile cross country snowshoe hike in
18 inches of fresh snow, 10 years ago. I ran out of gas at 8 miles and
death shuffled the last 2 while my healthy partner could have done the
whole thing again, and in fact wanted to and was real disappointed in
me.

Have you experimented in eating during longer exercise bouts? I believe
that the high-low bounce in BS levels is attenuated *while* you're
exercising. Part of the hitting-the-wall syndrome is running out of liver
glycogen (that's where blood sugar comes from), and eating while running
seems to offset that. Ultra runners are very conscious of getting enough to
eat during their long runs and races.

I think you'll figure out eventually what triggers it, how to prevent it,
and how to manage it when it hits.

Good Luck,

Dan

Dan Stumpus said:

The answer is that I don't know, and don't want a diagnosis to mess up any
future application for health ins...

You dont need a Doctor's diagnosis, but you do need BG readings. I have
learned that I can tell with 80% accuracy if my BG is low, but not
100%. Sometimes I feel low and I'm not.

Quoted message said:

In the above case, I had no energy at the beginning of the race (I'm usually
overflowing after a taper), ran too hard early on trying to keep up with the
folks I usually run with without trying, and hit the wall at 20 miles in a
31 mile race. Not fun.

I wish I could run 1/4 of that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My death march was a 10 mile cross country snowshoe hike in
18 inches of fresh snow, 10 years ago. I ran out of gas at 8 miles and
death shuffled the last 2 while my healthy partner could have done the
whole thing again, and in fact wanted to and was real disappointed in
me.

Have you experimented in eating during longer exercise bouts? I believe
that the high-low bounce in BS levels is attenuated *while* you're
exercising. Part of the hitting-the-wall syndrome is running out of liver
glycogen (that's where blood sugar comes from), and eating while running
seems to offset that. Ultra runners are very conscious of getting enough to
eat during their long runs and races.

I think you'll figure out eventually what triggers it, how to prevent it,
and how to manage it when it hits.

I have always eaten during exercise but never the right things at the
right times in the right amounts. On a recent 10-12 mile hike in the
mountains (I dont live in the mountains so it was moderately strenuous
for me) with 4000 foot elevation gain, I ate small portions of cheese
and whole grain bread throughout and I didnt hit the wall. That was an
improvement, but I still had a hard time keeping my BG up over the next
few days. I really should be able to do a lot better, and hopefully
will once I control it daily and achieve the equilibriuam that I've
never previously enjoyed.

Dan Stumpus said:

The answer is that I don't know, and don't want a diagnosis to mess up any
future application for health ins...

BTW, I find it very hard to believe that being hypo is a risk for
health insurance. Its practically a non-condition, officially speaking
(though very real for the sufferer). As evidenced by my experience,
most doctors wont even diagnose you if you walk in, club them on the
head and tell them you are hypoglycemic and have been for years, and
describe classic hg symptoms. Reactive HG has no definite cause, and
while some speculate it predisposes one or is a precurser to diabetes
that is by no means universally accepted. I asked my endocrinologist
why no doctor would diagnose me and he said because it just isnt
considered "serious" by most doctors.

"Veliger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dan Stumpus said:

The answer is that I don't know, and don't want a diagnosis to mess up
any
future application for health ins...

BTW, I find it very hard to believe that being hypo is a risk for
health insurance. Its practically a non-condition, officially speaking
(though very real for the sufferer).

You would be very surprised at how trivial and picky health insurance is for
those of us who are self employed.

Dan Stumpus said:

You would be very surprised at how trivial and picky health insurance is for
those of us who are self employed.

ie: unemployed.

TBR
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

Dan Stumpus said:

You would be very surprised at how trivial and picky health insurance is for
those of us who are self employed.

I would be very surprised for the reasons given above. And I'm
self-employed. 🙂

Meagan said:

I do not need to be diagnosed as I knew I had this problem. After a long
swim I would eat a bag of Cheerios but then about 2 hours later I had the
symptoms of hyoglycemia. So, I tried adding some protein but still had the
symptoms. Finally, I tried making my first meal after a long workout
straight protein...something like chicken, a hard boiled egg, fish. I eat
that alone and then a few hours later have fruit (like cantelope). Starting
out with just protein has completely eliminated the hypglycemia for me.

a bag of Cheerios? 😉