I am still here.

Martin, you just made my day!

Martin Smith said:

......
So now if you will, kindly pick up your books, and turn to page 222.
We'll ask you all to sing.
You'll find your books on the backs of your seats.
Are we ready?

Everyone, 222. Let's really enjoy ourselves, let's live it up.
All together.

......

Are you for real? Are you 13 years old? Just wondering

Pat

"Pat in TX" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Are you for real? Are you 13 years old? Just wondering

Pat

I was 13 in 1993. I am 25.

What do you mean by "am i for real"?

Micheal

Micheal Artindale said:

"Pat in TX" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Are you for real? Are you 13 years old? Just wondering

Pat

I was 13 in 1993. I am 25.

What do you mean by "am i for real"?

Micheal

Your world view, to the extent that you expose it here, is too naive to
be real. Some examples:

--"Before, I used to find that swimming lengths were useless. Yes you
get good excersice, Yes you do get better, but, you do not go anywhere."

You believe swimming lengths is useless, despite the fact that swimming
lengths is good exercise which improves fitness. That's actually why
almost everyone swims laps.

--"In an earlyer post, I mentioned how I am going to keep track of
lengths that I swim. [...snip...] Over the summer, I did over 30 km of
swimming. Should I add those kms in? I am not sure if I am cheating myself."

Are you really not sure if you're cheating yourself?

--"I look at swimming the way most drivers look at auto racing. The
difference between a multi gold winner, and someone who bearly can
finish a race is... Technique. Speed has nothing realy to do with it.
The people who are fast, are also efficient with their strokes. Learn
how to do it, then go faster. I will be doing this."

The difference isn't technique. Technique might not be a difference at
all. If you can barely finish a race, your main problem is lack of
fitness. You are avoiding doing the work.

--"Currently I am averageing about 1-1.25 km per hr when i swim lengths.
This is whe I combine front crawl, back crawl, breast stroke, elemantary
backstroke, and a bit of fly."

That means your pace is between a minute twenty and a minute thirty per
25 meters, which is astonishingly not fast for a guy who, only last
summer, was about to swim 8km in open water. In the end, you backed out
because, you said, the water was too cold.

--"After seeing your workout, mine seems slow in comparison."

It is. It is very slow.

--"To be able to swim 4km with equal distance of the 5 strokes with in a
2 hr time frame"

That's your goal. Well, it was your goal. Now your goal is to swim
across Canada. Before that, your goal was to swim a 4k IM (sorry, 4k of
"the 5 stroke"😉 in two hours. And before that, your goal was to swim 8k
in open water. To swim 4k in two hours, you have to double your current
speed. And you are planning to double your speed by improving your
technique. But first you have swim across Canada, and you don't know if
you are cheating yourself by including the 30km you swam last summer,
and that's only one of the things you are worried about.

--"I would also like to be able to do 200m IM at a masters race, and not
be last."

But have you entered one? No. You could, but you don't. You think you're
not ready even for a 200IM, but last summer you were planning to swim an
8k IM in a Canadian lake. You see where I'm going with this? No?

--"Actually, I still plan to do it, in around the weekend of Aug 5 2006."

You're planning to do the 8k open water IM in eight months. You still
haven't even entered a 200 IM, and you're pace is still about a minute +
per 25 meters, but you're planning to swim an 8k open water swim in
eight months.

--"I was 15 when I got my first speedo. We were visting Florida during
March. We are from Canada, so no snow was great. The suit I had been
wearing the prvious summer was starting to get to tight. At one of the
shops, they had both types, board shorts and speedos. At the time they
did not have jammers. When my parents asked me which I wanted, referring
to the various board shorts, I asked, What about those?, an I pointed to
the rack with speedos. Honestly, I though my parents would never say
yes, but they did."

Compare with:

I was 15 when I went on my first date. We were visiting Florida during
spring break. The girls I had known in my hometown were kind of plain,
but the girls I saw on the beach in Florida were different. Wow. When my
parents tried to introduce me to a few girls at the church we attended
in Miami, I pointed to the girls at the beach across the street and
asked, "What about those?" Honestly, I thought my parents would never
say yes, but they did.

You don't meet a lot of guys who remember getting their first speedo
like it was their first date.

--"When I did my 4k swim, I combined 4 strokes, front crawl, breast,
back crawl and elementary backstroke. It alowed me to continue when I
may have quit do to exhaustion. Front crawl is great for speed. the
rest, were great when I wanted to catch my breath."

<sigh>

--"I have decided that the next suit I get will be a polyester suit. I
find that the lycra suits wear out too quickly for my likeing. It will
either be from Speedo, TYR or Nike."

Are you sure you're not cheating yourself?

Martin Smith said:

Micheal Artindale said:

"Pat in TX" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Are you for real? Are you 13 years old? Just wondering

Pat

I was 13 in 1993. I am 25.

What do you mean by "am i for real"?

Micheal

Your world view, to the extent that you expose it here, is too naive to
be real. Some examples:

--"Before, I used to find that swimming lengths were useless. Yes you
get good excersice, Yes you do get better, but, you do not go anywhere."

You believe swimming lengths is useless, despite the fact that swimming
lengths is good exercise which improves fitness. That's actually why
almost everyone swims laps.

--"In an earlyer post, I mentioned how I am going to keep track of
lengths that I swim. [...snip...] Over the summer, I did over 30 km of
swimming. Should I add those kms in? I am not sure if I am cheating
myself."

Are you really not sure if you're cheating yourself?

--"I look at swimming the way most drivers look at auto racing. The
difference between a multi gold winner, and someone who bearly can
finish a race is... Technique. Speed has nothing realy to do with it.
The people who are fast, are also efficient with their strokes. Learn
how to do it, then go faster. I will be doing this."

The difference isn't technique. Technique might not be a difference at
all. If you can barely finish a race, your main problem is lack of
fitness. You are avoiding doing the work.

--"Currently I am averageing about 1-1.25 km per hr when i swim lengths.
This is whe I combine front crawl, back crawl, breast stroke, elemantary
backstroke, and a bit of fly."

That means your pace is between a minute twenty and a minute thirty per
25 meters, which is astonishingly not fast for a guy who, only last
summer, was about to swim 8km in open water. In the end, you backed out
because, you said, the water was too cold.

--"After seeing your workout, mine seems slow in comparison."

It is. It is very slow.

--"To be able to swim 4km with equal distance of the 5 strokes with in a
2 hr time frame"

That's your goal. Well, it was your goal. Now your goal is to swim
across Canada. Before that, your goal was to swim a 4k IM (sorry, 4k of
"the 5 stroke"😉 in two hours. And before that, your goal was to swim 8k
in open water. To swim 4k in two hours, you have to double your current
speed. And you are planning to double your speed by improving your
technique. But first you have swim across Canada, and you don't know if
you are cheating yourself by including the 30km you swam last summer,
and that's only one of the things you are worried about.

--"I would also like to be able to do 200m IM at a masters race, and not
be last."

But have you entered one? No. You could, but you don't. You think you're
not ready even for a 200IM, but last summer you were planning to swim an
8k IM in a Canadian lake. You see where I'm going with this? No?

--"Actually, I still plan to do it, in around the weekend of Aug 5 2006."

You're planning to do the 8k open water IM in eight months. You still
haven't even entered a 200 IM, and you're pace is still about a minute +
per 25 meters, but you're planning to swim an 8k open water swim in
eight months.

--"I was 15 when I got my first speedo. We were visting Florida during
March. We are from Canada, so no snow was great. The suit I had been
wearing the prvious summer was starting to get to tight. At one of the
shops, they had both types, board shorts and speedos. At the time they
did not have jammers. When my parents asked me which I wanted, referring
to the various board shorts, I asked, What about those?, an I pointed to
the rack with speedos. Honestly, I though my parents would never say
yes, but they did."

Compare with:

I was 15 when I went on my first date. We were visiting Florida during
spring break. The girls I had known in my hometown were kind of plain,
but the girls I saw on the beach in Florida were different. Wow. When my
parents tried to introduce me to a few girls at the church we attended
in Miami, I pointed to the girls at the beach across the street and
asked, "What about those?" Honestly, I thought my parents would never
say yes, but they did.

You don't meet a lot of guys who remember getting their first speedo
like it was their first date.

--"When I did my 4k swim, I combined 4 strokes, front crawl, breast,
back crawl and elementary backstroke. It alowed me to continue when I
may have quit do to exhaustion. Front crawl is great for speed. the
rest, were great when I wanted to catch my breath."

<sigh>

--"I have decided that the next suit I get will be a polyester suit. I
find that the lycra suits wear out too quickly for my likeing. It will
either be from Speedo, TYR or Nike."

Are you sure you're not cheating yourself?

Seeing all the quotes you have strung together, Martin, suggests to me
some limitations that are not self-imposed. Whatever the chronological
age, there seems to me to be ample reason for patience and
consideration. I think Micheal may be trying hard.

rtk

"Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Micheal Artindale said:

"Pat in TX" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Are you for real? Are you 13 years old? Just wondering

Pat

I was 13 in 1993. I am 25.

What do you mean by "am i for real"?

Micheal

Your world view, to the extent that you expose it here, is too naive to
be real. Some examples:

--"Before, I used to find that swimming lengths were useless. Yes you
get good excersice, Yes you do get better, but, you do not go anywhere."

You believe swimming lengths is useless, despite the fact that swimming
lengths is good exercise which improves fitness. That's actually why
almost everyone swims laps.

I hate "bouncing off the walls". I want to go somewhere, to the island, to
the other shore, to the boat overthere... Yes bouncing off the walls are
great excersise, but it is so boring.

Quoted message said:

--"In an earlyer post, I mentioned how I am going to keep track of
lengths that I swim. [...snip...] Over the summer, I did over 30 km of
swimming. Should I add those kms in? I am not sure if I am cheating

myself."

Quoted message said:

Are you really not sure if you're cheating yourself?

I haven't added them to the amount. I did do them, so that is why I wasnt so
sure.

Quoted message said:

--"I look at swimming the way most drivers look at auto racing. The
difference between a multi gold winner, and someone who bearly can
finish a race is... Technique. Speed has nothing realy to do with it.
The people who are fast, are also efficient with their strokes. Learn
how to do it, then go faster. I will be doing this."

The difference isn't technique. Technique might not be a difference at
all. If you can barely finish a race, your main problem is lack of
fitness. You are avoiding doing the work.

If we are talking about the elite, they are all close in their fitness
level, some are just more efficient.

Quoted message said:

--"Currently I am averageing about 1-1.25 km per hr when i swim lengths.
This is whe I combine front crawl, back crawl, breast stroke, elemantary
backstroke, and a bit of fly."

That means your pace is between a minute twenty and a minute thirty per
25 meters, which is astonishingly not fast for a guy who, only last
summer, was about to swim 8km in open water. In the end, you backed out
because, you said, the water was too cold.

Should I have done it, and drowneed? I am alot of things, but, I do not want
to be dead.

Quoted message said:

--"After seeing your workout, mine seems slow in comparison."

It is. It is very slow.

--"To be able to swim 4km with equal distance of the 5 strokes with in a
2 hr time frame"

That's your goal. Well, it was your goal. Now your goal is to swim
across Canada. Before that, your goal was to swim a 4k IM (sorry, 4k of
"the 5 stroke"😉 in two hours. And before that, your goal was to swim 8k
in open water. To swim 4k in two hours, you have to double your current
speed. And you are planning to double your speed by improving your
technique. But first you have swim across Canada, and you don't know if
you are cheating yourself by including the 30km you swam last summer,
and that's only one of the things you are worried about.

My goals are a compound goal. In the 6000km I will eventually do, I want to
get fast enough to do 4km+ in 2 hrs.

Quoted message said:

--"I would also like to be able to do 200m IM at a masters race, and not
be last."

But have you entered one? No. You could, but you don't. You think you're
not ready even for a 200IM, but last summer you were planning to swim an
8k IM in a Canadian lake. You see where I'm going with this? No?

I am not ready for 200IM simply because I cannot do fly proficiently. I
would get disqualified. I could race with the 3 other strokes and not get
DQ.

I still do not see where you are going.

Quoted message said:

--"Actually, I still plan to do it, in around the weekend of Aug 5 2006."

You're planning to do the 8k open water IM in eight months. You still
haven't even entered a 200 IM, and you're pace is still about a minute +
per 25 meters, but you're planning to swim an 8k open water swim in
eight months.

You are reading into it too far. I will do the 8km, but not using IM. I may,
but likely it will be front and back crawl, breast stroke, and elementary
back stroke, if needed.

Quoted message said:

--"I was 15 when I got my first speedo. We were visting Florida during
March. We are from Canada, so no snow was great. The suit I had been
wearing the prvious summer was starting to get to tight. At one of the
shops, they had both types, board shorts and speedos. At the time they
did not have jammers. When my parents asked me which I wanted, referring
to the various board shorts, I asked, What about those?, an I pointed to
the rack with speedos. Honestly, I though my parents would never say
yes, but they did."

Compare with:

I was 15 when I went on my first date. We were visiting Florida during
spring break. The girls I had known in my hometown were kind of plain,
but the girls I saw on the beach in Florida were different. Wow. When my
parents tried to introduce me to a few girls at the church we attended
in Miami, I pointed to the girls at the beach across the street and
asked, "What about those?" Honestly, I thought my parents would never
say yes, but they did.

You don't meet a lot of guys who remember getting their first speedo
like it was their first date.

I remember alot of odd things in my life.

No, I will not list them.

Quoted message said:

--"When I did my 4k swim, I combined 4 strokes, front crawl, breast,
back crawl and elementary backstroke. It alowed me to continue when I
may have quit do to exhaustion. Front crawl is great for speed. the
rest, were great when I wanted to catch my breath."

<sigh>

--"I have decided that the next suit I get will be a polyester suit. I
find that the lycra suits wear out too quickly for my likeing. It will
either be from Speedo, TYR or Nike."

Are you sure you're not cheating yourself?

How would getting a different suit be cheating myself?

--- Martin, you need to get a life. You have way too much time on your hands
to be able to bring up all of that.

Micheal

Michael said:
I hate "bouncing off the walls". I want to go somewhere, to the island, to
the other shore, to the boat overthere... Yes bouncing off the walls are
great excersise, but it is so boring.

The best we can do, Michael, is dream of reefs, tropical fish, and
mermaids maybe, while we do our quite boring laps. But laps is the
reality and if you don't live on an island, but still want to improve,
that's what you have to do. Of course, you knew that. I'm just saying
we all get bored, too.

I think you're ambitious and want to go far, and do it faster than
you're doing. You can. I'm going to make suggestions that I know will
work. I mean really will work.

Technique. Make only one change in what you're doing. When you finish
your stroke, push your hand another six inches back. Don't say you
already go back as far as you can. Just do it. Make no other changes
for one month. Six inches farther back. Nothing else.

Speed. Swim only one length. Count eight breaths. Swim another
length. Repeat that until you've swum 8 lengths. Take a long rest and
then do it again. You can fool around in the water after that, but
that's all the training to do. Next Monday I'll make it a little more
difficult.

Again. Make only one change in your technique and only 8 x 25 twice.

What to wear? Of course, whatever is best in the Hawaiian surf, even if
it means baggies with palm tree design. If I liked caps with plastic
flowers stuck on I would wear it. It's my head.

rtk

Interesting program you have here rtk. I think I am going to add this into
my training and see what happens, that six inches sounds like an very good
concept, good to keep in mind and the 8 breaths is very clever. Just one
question the 8 lenghts, should they be at max output?

"rtk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Michael said:
I hate "bouncing off the walls". I want to go somewhere, to the island, to
the other shore, to the boat overthere... Yes bouncing off the walls are
great excersise, but it is so boring.

The best we can do, Michael, is dream of reefs, tropical fish, and
mermaids maybe, while we do our quite boring laps. But laps is the
reality and if you don't live on an island, but still want to improve,
that's what you have to do. Of course, you knew that. I'm just saying
we all get bored, too.

I think you're ambitious and want to go far, and do it faster than
you're doing. You can. I'm going to make suggestions that I know will
work. I mean really will work.

Technique. Make only one change in what you're doing. When you finish
your stroke, push your hand another six inches back. Don't say you
already go back as far as you can. Just do it. Make no other changes
for one month. Six inches farther back. Nothing else.

Speed. Swim only one length. Count eight breaths. Swim another
length. Repeat that until you've swum 8 lengths. Take a long rest and
then do it again. You can fool around in the water after that, but
that's all the training to do. Next Monday I'll make it a little more
difficult.

Again. Make only one change in your technique and only 8 x 25 twice.

What to wear? Of course, whatever is best in the Hawaiian surf, even if
it means baggies with palm tree design. If I liked caps with plastic
flowers stuck on I would wear it. It's my head.

rtk

Marcel Meijer said:

Interesting program you have here rtk. I think I am going to add this into
my training and see what happens, that six inches sounds like an very good
concept, good to keep in mind and the 8 breaths is very clever. Just one
question the 8 lenghts, should they be at max output?

No, but they'll be faster than a distance swim simply because of the
rest. The 400 yards swim will be more tiring than if it were swum
straight. Here's the whole thing:

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/SwimWorkouts.html/ZeroTo1mile.html

I first worked up this plan because a 70 year old severely asthmatic
woman at the pool was swimming only one length at a time, but for a
whole mile and I asked her if she wouldn't like to do the whole swim
without stopping. Yes, she said, and I guessed at 6 weeks because so
much of what we do takes that long, like healing bones and stuff. Then
a family member, age 18, said he'd like to get into swimming and did I
have any suggestions, so I wrote out the same plan, then put the page up.

(Micheal, you already said that didn't appeal to you, so don't go to
that page. Instead, please follow my suggestion for the 8x25 twice and
I'll follow it up next week.)

rtk

Micheal Artindale said:

--- Martin, you need to get a life. You have way too much time on your hands
to be able to bring up all of that.

It took five minutes. It's all there on the news server.

Speaking of too much time on your hands, if you are swimming 1.125k per
hour, you're the one with time on his hands. Take Ruth's workout advice.
Don't say it doesn't appeal to you. If it doesn't appeal to you, you
won't improve much, and certainly not enough to swim an 8k.

Martin Smith said:

Micheal Artindale said:

--- Martin, you need to get a life. You have way too much time on your hands
to be able to bring up all of that.

It took five minutes. It's all there on the news server.

Speaking of too much time on your hands, if you are swimming 1.125k per
hour, you're the one with time on his hands. Take Ruth's workout advice.
Don't say it doesn't appeal to you. If it doesn't appeal to you, you
won't improve much, and certainly not enough to swim an 8k.

.... and at 1.125k per hour x 4 hours per week x 50 weeks per year
(allow a couple of weeks holiday, sick, etc)
= 225km per year
= 26 years 8 months to do your 6000km "swim across Canada".

You'll be over twice as old as you are now, and have a lot less time on
your hands.

Pick one goal for this year - 200m IM or 8km lake swim. Focus on that.
Take the advice from people on this NG on how to improve. Go to it.
Have fun.

Liz D

"Liz D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Martin Smith said:

Micheal Artindale said:

--- Martin, you need to get a life. You have way too much time on your

hands

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to be able to bring up all of that.

It took five minutes. It's all there on the news server.

Speaking of too much time on your hands, if you are swimming 1.125k per
hour, you're the one with time on his hands. Take Ruth's workout advice.
Don't say it doesn't appeal to you. If it doesn't appeal to you, you
won't improve much, and certainly not enough to swim an 8k.

... and at 1.125k per hour x 4 hours per week x 50 weeks per year
(allow a couple of weeks holiday, sick, etc)
= 225km per year
= 26 years 8 months to do your 6000km "swim across Canada".

You'll be over twice as old as you are now, and have a lot less time on
your hands.

I guess you cant read and do math.
I do 2 hrs a day, 5 days a week, normally.
I do 2 km in those workouts.
so, 2km x 5days is 10 km a week. that is 600 weeks or about 11years.

If i can get it down to 4k every 2 hrs, I will have it done in about 5 yrs.

Micheal

Quoted message said:

Pick one goal for this year - 200m IM or 8km lake swim. Focus on that.
Take the advice from people on this NG on how to improve. Go to it.
Have fun.

Liz D

"rtk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Michael said:
I hate "bouncing off the walls". I want to go somewhere, to the island, to
the other shore, to the boat overthere... Yes bouncing off the walls are
great excersise, but it is so boring.

The best we can do, Michael, is dream of reefs, tropical fish, and
mermaids maybe, while we do our quite boring laps. But laps is the
reality and if you don't live on an island, but still want to improve,
that's what you have to do. Of course, you knew that. I'm just saying
we all get bored, too.

I think you're ambitious and want to go far, and do it faster than
you're doing. You can. I'm going to make suggestions that I know will
work. I mean really will work.

Technique. Make only one change in what you're doing. When you finish
your stroke, push your hand another six inches back. Don't say you
already go back as far as you can. Just do it. Make no other changes
for one month. Six inches farther back. Nothing else.

I am not sure what you mean by reaching 6 inches. Please explain. Thanks.

Quoted message said:

Speed. Swim only one length. Count eight breaths. Swim another
length. Repeat that until you've swum 8 lengths. Take a long rest and
then do it again. You can fool around in the water after that, but
that's all the training to do. Next Monday I'll make it a little more
difficult.

I will try this tomorrow. Even if I do not see changes, I will do it.

Quoted message said:

Again. Make only one change in your technique and only 8 x 25 twice.

What to wear? Of course, whatever is best in the Hawaiian surf, even if
it means baggies with palm tree design. If I liked caps with plastic
flowers stuck on I would wear it. It's my head.

I agree. I just wanna be wearing something that doesnt wear out in the pool
quickly and isnt loose.

Thanks,

Micheal

Micheal Artindale said:

I am not sure what you mean by reaching 6 inches. Please explain. Thanks.

You hand enters and pulls,
bends somewhat and keeps pulling,
then you hold all the water you can with your whole arm
and start pushing
until your arm is almost straight

.......
(here's where you go the six inches)
.......

just snap your hand back the extra inches,
then you remove your arm from the water
and recover
and enter your hand again.

Re: the 8 x 25 twice.

Remember you take eight breaths and go one length over and over. If 8
breaths aren't enough, you go anyhow. You're supposed to feel like it's
not a long enough rest. That's how you get better.

Minds and bodies don't know the same thing. Your mind will say Not
enough rest! But your body will answer Enough rest! So let your body
do what it can do even if your mind thinks differently.

rtk

Did this excersize this morning as a warm-up to the rest of my program and
got my friends to join me. Great stuff! Where my hand used to exit shortly
after going past my speedo my fingertips now reach to my knees, giving me
alot more thrust. loved it. 8 breaths just feels a bit long for me so we
will cut down on that. rtk with your permision I would like to print out
those pages and put them up at our pool for all to see. I think that will
enspire more people to do a mile.
"rtk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Micheal Artindale said:

I am not sure what you mean by reaching 6 inches. Please explain.

Thanks.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You hand enters and pulls,
bends somewhat and keeps pulling,
then you hold all the water you can with your whole arm
and start pushing
until your arm is almost straight

......
(here's where you go the six inches)
......

just snap your hand back the extra inches,
then you remove your arm from the water
and recover
and enter your hand again.

Re: the 8 x 25 twice.

Remember you take eight breaths and go one length over and over. If 8
breaths aren't enough, you go anyhow. You're supposed to feel like it's
not a long enough rest. That's how you get better.

Minds and bodies don't know the same thing. Your mind will say Not
enough rest! But your body will answer Enough rest! So let your body
do what it can do even if your mind thinks differently.

rtk

Dear rtk ~

Last night during in my workout I focused on having my hand exit the
water by my hip instead of two inches away from my body. So, what is
the purpose of reaching an additional 6 inches? Please explain.

Also, I assume you want people to swim the length of the pool (in my
case 25 yards), then take eight breaths, and then swim another length.
Is that correct? What particular benefit does this have? Please
explain.

Doug

rtk said:

Micheal Artindale said:

I am not sure what you mean by reaching 6 inches. Please explain. Thanks.

You hand enters and pulls,
bends somewhat and keeps pulling,
then you hold all the water you can with your whole arm
and start pushing
until your arm is almost straight

......
(here's where you go the six inches)
......

just snap your hand back the extra inches,
then you remove your arm from the water
and recover
and enter your hand again.

Re: the 8 x 25 twice.

Remember you take eight breaths and go one length over and over. If 8
breaths aren't enough, you go anyhow. You're supposed to feel like it's
not a long enough rest. That's how you get better.

Minds and bodies don't know the same thing. Your mind will say Not
enough rest! But your body will answer Enough rest! So let your body
do what it can do even if your mind thinks differently.

rtk

Marcel Meijer said:

Did this excersize this morning as a warm-up to the rest of my program and
got my friends to join me. Great stuff! Where my hand used to exit shortly
after going past my speedo my fingertips now reach to my knees, giving me
alot more thrust. loved it. 8 breaths just feels a bit long for me so we
will cut down on that. rtk with your permision I would like to print out
those pages and put them up at our pool for all to see. I think that will
enspire more people to do a mile.

I'm very pleased you and your friends find it useful!

rtk

Quoted message said:

Dear rtk ~

Last night during in my workout I focused on having my hand exit the
water by my hip instead of two inches away from my body. So, what is
the purpose of reaching an additional 6 inches? Please explain.

Also, I assume you want people to swim the length of the pool (in my
case 25 yards), then take eight breaths, and then swim another length.
Is that correct? What particular benefit does this have? Please
explain.

Doug

It was an open note to Micheal who has had many concerns about swimming
distance, technique, and what to wear. I answered all three with the
first steps for him to take. #1. Wear whatever. #2. Finish your
stroke. #3. Strictly limit rests, but to a quite comfortable 8 breaths.

Re: #1. For some reason that I think is connected with a
quasi-political trend in the U.S., there has been a wave of male
self-consciousness about nudity and the near nudity of lycra suits. I
think it's rather funny, a sort of fig leaf syndrome. So I said
anything is okay, hoping to be reassuring although M is from Canada,
which disproves my theory.

Re: #2. If you've ever lifted weights, you'll know that in a lat
pull-down, your strength increases dramatically as your hands pass your
waist and their fulcrum - your shoulders - are in a position to power
their push. By not extending your hand in the push, you're omitting the
strongest section of the stroke.

Re: #3. It is common and natural to swim as far as you can comfortably
go, then rest until you're fully recovered before continuing. That does
not train you to increase your endurance or your speed. Take a look at
some of the workouts on this page:
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/Ultradistance.html
or for 50 not as hard workouts, look here:
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/PreviousSwimWorkouts.html
The 8x25 was from this one:
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/SwimWorkouts.html/ZeroTo1mile.html
It progresses to greater distance and shorter rests until a straight
mile can be swum.
After a mile can be swum, for someone on their own without a coach, who
likes to make up their own workouts, there are some suggestions here:
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/IntroToSwimWorkouts.html
There are more pages linked on those.

I'm listing those above because I didn't want you to think that everyone
here should get in the pool tomorrow in their baggies and swim one length.

I'm not advertising my own web pages above. At over 2000 hits per day,
I don't need to do that. I'm really just trying to help someone who I
have hit over the head. Thanks to Martin, I understand he does want to
do well and I think he will when he's given clear concise suggestions.

rtk

Micheal Artindale said:

"Liz D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Martin Smith said:

Micheal Artindale wrote:

> --- Martin, you need to get a life. You have way too much time on your

hands

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> to be able to bring up all of that.

It took five minutes. It's all there on the news server.

Speaking of too much time on your hands, if you are swimming 1.125k per
hour, you're the one with time on his hands. Take Ruth's workout advice.
Don't say it doesn't appeal to you. If it doesn't appeal to you, you
won't improve much, and certainly not enough to swim an 8k.

... and at 1.125k per hour x 4 hours per week x 50 weeks per year
(allow a couple of weeks holiday, sick, etc)
= 225km per year
= 26 years 8 months to do your 6000km "swim across Canada".

You'll be over twice as old as you are now, and have a lot less time on
your hands.

I guess you cant read and do math.
I do 2 hrs a day, 5 days a week, normally.
I do 2 km in those workouts.
so, 2km x 5days is 10 km a week. that is 600 weeks or about 11years.

If i can get it down to 4k every 2 hrs, I will have it done in about 5 yrs.

Micheal

Quoted message said:

Pick one goal for this year - 200m IM or 8km lake swim. Focus on that.
Take the advice from people on this NG on how to improve. Go to it.
Have fun.

Liz D

I do both very well, thank you. I don't remember every detail of every
post I read (hence my incorrect recollection that you were doing 1 hour
4 times per week, instead of 2 hours 5 times per week). But my
calculations are quite correct and certainly much better than your
original estimate, which I have just looked up again to make sure I got
it right:

Quoted message said:

Micheal Artindale wrote:
I have created the best motivation. I want to swim accoss Canada. I am a
Canadian, and since the country is large, I will cross it, if only in my own
head. I will have maps, and I will start at Halifax, Nova Scotia and attempt
to get to Vancouver, British Columbia. That is a distance of over 6000km.
So, I likely will do the equivalent in about 2 years.

Liz D
BSc Mathematics & Computing (1st Class Honours)