I am trying to Identify this headset

toomanybikes said:

I bought a new to me Geoffrey Butler on the weekend - seems to be around
1970 or 1971 ( the rear derailleur is NR Pat 1970)

I would like to replace the headset as the one it is stiff and HEAVY -
does anyone recognize this headset (pic attached) so I can get the
stack height dimensions??

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--
toomanybikes

No but you shouldn't clamp a bicycle by the seat tube...either onto the
seat post or remove it and use a build post or somehting.

toomanybikes said:

I bought a new to me Geoffrey Butler on the weekend - 1970 or 1971.
I would like to replace the headset as the one it is stiff and HEAVY -
does anyone recognize this headset (pic attached) so I can get the
stack height dimensions??

That looks almost like a low-stack brampton but I don't understand the
serrated look of the spacer so it may be some kind of a stronglight
?P4? or other french headset instead.

There aren't a lot of choices in classic 1" threaded headsets - tange
passage (junk), tange levin (just as heavy), campagnolo chorus /
record, and stronglight A9 (best match to your frameset, probably), or
Chris King, if you want some semblance of classic good looks together
with good quality.

If you are serious about replacing the headset why don't you just
remove it and measure the stack height ?? _Hopefully_ it's english
threaded. You can always get a lower-stack headset and add some
aluminum spacers if you cannot find an exact match.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

toomanybikes said:

I bought a new to me Geoffrey Butler on the weekend - seems to be around
1970 or 1971 ( the rear derailleur is NR Pat 1970)

I would like to replace the headset as the one it is stiff and HEAVY -
does anyone recognize this headset (pic attached) so I can get the
stack height dimensions??

I don't recognize the brand, but it is just a standard old-style steel
headset, heavy as possible and taking tiny bearings that will not give
decent service. No way you are going to find the stack height. Back
then, no one much cared, they just cut the fork to fit. Like someone else
said, measure it to see.

It will probably be hard to fit something like a Stronglight A9 in there,
but if possible that is a good, cheap headset. Chris King (I have both,
actually) has a lower stack height, and so far seems indesctuctable. But
it costs over $100 US.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all
_`\(,_ | mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so
(_)/ (_) | that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am
nothing. [1 Corinth. 13:2]

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

No but you shouldn't clamp a bicycle by the seat tube...either onto the
seat post or remove it and use a build post or somehting.

Nonsense. If your seat tube is not strong enough for (gentle) clamping
onto a workstand, it won't be strong enough to trust under your butt.
Carbon bikes are one thing, but this is steel.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and
_`\(,_ | Excellence.
(_)/ (_) |

David L. Johnson said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

No but you shouldn't clamp a bicycle by the seat tube...either onto
the seat post or remove it and use a build post or somehting.

Nonsense. If your seat tube is not strong enough for (gentle)
clamping onto a workstand, it won't be strong enough to trust under
your butt. Carbon bikes are one thing, but this is steel.

Having seen clamps put crimps in more than a few seat- and downtubes, I'd
say /your/ comment is closer to "nonsense" than is Peter's.

HAND.

"Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David L. Johnson said:

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 06:09:30 -0700, Qui si parla Campagnolo

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No but you shouldn't clamp a bicycle by the seat

tube...either onto

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the seat post or remove it and use a build post or

somehting.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Nonsense. If your seat tube is not strong enough for

(gentle)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

clamping onto a workstand, it won't be strong enough to trust

under

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

your butt. Carbon bikes are one thing, but this is steel.

Having seen clamps put crimps in more than a few seat- and

downtubes, I'd

Quoted message said:

say /your/ comment is closer to "nonsense" than is Peter's.

HAND.

This is an old steel frame, probably 531. You can use this stuff
for baseball bats. Keep in mind that this frame had clamp on
everything anyway (FD/shifters/cable guides/bottle cages). I
have been clamping 531 and SP frames like that for over 30 years
with no problems. Use a rag to protect the paint is all that I
do. Plus, the clamp arrangement on the stand shown is very
adjustable and not like the crushing jaws of some stands of the
period. -- Jay Beattie.

A shy person said:

I bought a new to me Geoffrey Butler on the weekend - seems to be around
1970 or 1971 ( the rear derailleur is NR Pat 1970)

I would like to replace the headset as the one it is stiff and HEAVY -

Even a "heavy" headset doesn't weigh that much.

If it's stiff, it needs to be cleaned/lubed/adjusted.

Quoted message said:

does anyone recognize this headset (pic attached) so I can get the
stack height dimensions??
cyclingforums.comattachment.phpOpen ↗

Why not just grab a ruler and measure it? Shouldn't take more than a
minute to do.

Measure from bottom of crown race to top of lower head tube cup.

Measure from bottom of upper head two cup to top of locknut.

Add the two numbers and Bob's your uncle.

Sheldon "Rulers Are Cheap" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------+
| One measurement is worth 50 expert opinions |
| --Howard Sutherland |
+-------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Jay Beattie said:

This is an old steel frame, probably 531. You can use this stuff
for baseball bats.

in 0.6mm wall?

Quoted message said:

Keep in mind that this frame had clamp on
everything anyway (FD/shifters/cable guides/bottle cages).

And it was no big deal to put a dent in the seattube with a Silca
pumppeg, fastened with a M3 bolt

--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

Sheldon Brown said:

Why not just grab a ruler and measure it? Shouldn't take more than a
minute to do.

Measure from bottom of crown race to top of lower head tube cup.

Measure from bottom of upper head two cup to top of locknut.

Add the two numbers and Bob's your uncle.

It occurs to me that a diagram of where to measure would be useful on
your "stack height" glossary entry. Trying to describe it verbally is
difficult.

--
Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA

"m-gineering" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jay Beattie said:

This is an old steel frame, probably 531. You can use this

stuff

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for baseball bats.

in 0.6mm wall?

Or perhaps 0.7mm, depending on the tube set. I clamped these
kinds of frames all the time with only a scratch if I did not use
a cloth, or scrunched up paint -- if I clamped too soon after
painting. I have to admit that I never did use a 531C tube for a
baseball bat, but when I hack up my current SP frame (0.7mm),
I'll take a few turns at the plate and see how it works.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Keep in mind that this frame had clamp on
everything anyway (FD/shifters/cable guides/bottle cages).

And it was no big deal to put a dent in the seattube with a

Silca

Quoted message said:

pumppeg, fastened with a M3 bolt

Well, YMMV. I do not know how one could put a dent in a 1mm or
0.9mm tube with a Silca clamp (assuming you are at the end of the
butt), but I never had that problem. I did dent a seat tube when
I over torqued an NR FD clamp, but I chalked that up to youthful
exhuberance. -- Jay Beattie.

Jay Beattie said:

Well, YMMV. I do not know how one could put a dent in a 1mm or
0.9mm tube with a Silca clamp (assuming you are at the end of the
butt), but I never had that problem.

You said 531, and most 531 seattubes used a 27.2 mm seatpost (SP is 27)
(28.6-0.2 (clearance)-27.2)/2= 0.6 mm and certainly not 1.0mm!

0.9 mm is at the bottom, not many builders use the seat tube the wrong
way up 😉

Quoted message said:

I did dent a seat tube when
I over torqued an NR FD clamp, but I chalked that up to youthful
exhuberance. -- Jay Beattie.

--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

"m-gineering" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jay Beattie said:

Well, YMMV. I do not know how one could put a dent in a 1mm

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

0.9mm tube with a Silca clamp (assuming you are at the end of

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

butt), but I never had that problem.

You said 531, and most 531 seattubes used a 27.2 mm seatpost

(SP is 27)

Quoted message said:

(28.6-0.2 (clearance)-27.2)/2= 0.6 mm and certainly not 1.0mm!

0.9 mm is at the bottom, not many builders use the seat tube

the wrong

Quoted message said:

way up 😉

D'oh!

O.K., you got me on the butt. But, if the clamp is on the seat
tube (rather than the top tube) and the seatpost extends past the
bottom of the seat lug -- and the clamp is installed just below
the lug (common installation) -- then the post would reinforce
the tube and futher resists the terrible, crushing force of the
Silca clamp! So it is, Mr. m-gineer, IMPOSSIBLE to crush the
seat tube with the Silca clamp! QED. (and don't try calling me
at home on this one). -- Jay Beattie.

P.S. -- I think the seat tube on the standard 531C set was only
0.5mm, unless I'm misreading the chart. See
http://tinyurl.com/7q9xa .

Jay Beattie said:

O.K., you got me on the butt.

Try spraying PAM on it.

Bill "as per jj (IIRC)" S.