I like it!

On Mon, 24 May 2004 00:45:01 +0100, Gawnsoft
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar....

ITYM a woman is only a woman ;-)

Guy
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88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Peter Clinch said:

Main thing'll be to swap the driver with someone who has a
clue about off-road (which will include the tyre
knowledge, of course).

Many owners are likely to have done some off-roading and/or
training at one time or other so its a false assumption that
because they can afford an expensive car they know nothing.

Quoted message said:

Same goes for MTBs, if you've never done much cycling and
buy a Cannondale Jekyll just because you've got a fat
wallet and read the reviews you'll still be left behind
by anyone with some cycling legs and offroad chops on an
'88 Muddy Fox rigid...

Agreed and I'm a [censored] off-road cyclist but I thoroughly
enjoy riding my Santa Cruz even though I know it is capable
of much much more than I can manage. I have no shame about
buying and riding it and no time for people who have nothing
better to do than sneer. Get out and ride as they say.

Tony

On Mon, 24 May 2004 12:05:19 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

if you've never done much cycling and buy a Cannondale
Jekyll just because you've got a fat wallet and read the
reviews you'll still be left behind by anyone with some
cycling legs and offroad chops on an '88 Muddy Fox rigid...

True. It's not about the bike...

Guy
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On Mon, 24 May 2004 10:05:03 GMT, Simon Brooke <[email hidden]>

wrote in message : said:

And indeed, of course, most of these features are not there
on serious off-roaders. I don't know whether this year's
Land Rover Defenders have traction control or limited slip
differentials but they surely didn't use to, for the simple
and most excellent reason that when these things break down
miles from anywhere the local blacksmith needs to be able
to fix them.

Plus the real offroad drivers didn't need them, because they
knew how to use brakes, gears and winch to get out of pretty
much anything ;-)

Guy
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On Mon, 24 May 2004 00:47:19 +0100, Gawnsoft
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

And the deisel manual lists at 57mpg.

No ottermatic, tho. Can't think why so few diesels are
offered with an ottermatic option.

Guy
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On Sun, 23 May 2004 20:31:34 +0100, "Nathaniel Porter"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

All I'm saying is having a rational well planned motorway
network has other benefits and is overall beneficial IMHO.
It's just we don't have a well planned motorway network in
this country, and we do suffer for it (and not just in
terms of congestion).

The M25 was, in these terms, a tolerably good idea. A big
f---off bypass round the UK's capital of congestion. The
only problem is, it was instantly subverted by lots of
people who decided that it meant they could move out to the
'burbs and still get to the office by car...

Quoted message said:

I'm not for 8 lane superhighways - but I find it silly that
Newcastle-upon-Tyne isn't connected to the motorway network
(although thankfully the govt. is doing something about
this example)

True enough. There are not enough high quality east-to-west
routes (car or train) in the UK.

Guy
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Paul Rudin said:

That doesn't internalise wellbeing and happiness - it just
ensures you can't remember whether you are unwell or
unhappy :-)

Tony

In article <[email hidden]>,

Just zis Guy said:

No ottermatic, tho. Can't think why so few diesels are
offered with an ottermatic option.

Because if you're having a diesel for the emmissions, the
auto kills
it. Which is silly: my experience of running autos is that
you actually get the fuel consumption quoted, whereas
with manuals you never do, so in practical use the
difference is much smaller than it is on paper. And
from a technical perspective, five-speed autos are
expensive to build but diesels have narrow power-bands.

ian

In article <[email hidden]>,

Just zis Guy said:

No ottermatic, tho. Can't think why so few diesels are
offered with an ottermatic option.

Because if you're having a diesel for the emmissions, the
auto kills
it. Which is silly: my experience of running autos is that
you actually get the fuel consumption quoted, whereas
with manuals you never do, so in practical use the
difference is much smaller than it is on paper. And
from a technical perspective, five-speed autos are
expensive to build but diesels have narrow power-bands.

ian

Just zis Guy said:

Plus the real offroad drivers didn't need them, because
they knew how to use brakes, gears and winch to get out of
pretty much anything ;-)

Yes you can use the handbrake or footbrake to emulate a
limited slip differential but real off road drivers
appreciate not coming to a standstill because one wheel is
off the ground spinning while the rest are no longer driven.

Tony

Just zis Guy said:

Plus the real offroad drivers didn't need them, because
they knew how to use brakes, gears and winch to get out of
pretty much anything ;-)

Yes you can use the handbrake or footbrake to emulate a
limited slip differential but real off road drivers
appreciate not coming to a standstill because one wheel is
off the ground spinning while the rest are no longer driven.

Tony

Just zis Guy said:

No ottermatic, tho. Can't think why so few diesels are
offered with an ottermatic option.

My dad's 406 is a diesel. It technically does have a
manual gearbox but ever since he's been driving diesels he
just seems to stick it in 4th and let the torque do any
worrying about whether it's the right gear... Being used
to petrol cars and HP engines with knees in the drive
train, it makes me wince!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Just zis Guy said:

No ottermatic, tho. Can't think why so few diesels are
offered with an ottermatic option.

My dad's 406 is a diesel. It technically does have a
manual gearbox but ever since he's been driving diesels he
just seems to stick it in 4th and let the torque do any
worrying about whether it's the right gear... Being used
to petrol cars and HP engines with knees in the drive
train, it makes me wince!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>,

Gawnsoft said:

Yes, diesels are naturals for continuously-variable
transmissions, where the engine sits in its power-band all
the time (in fact

My parents had a DAF33, and my in-laws a succession of
DAF66/Volvo66. Lovely things.

One of the great missed opportunities for the F1/road
crossover was the ban on the Williams CVT that Newey and
Head did in about 1992 --- Hill tested it, which makes it 91
or 92. It was massively faster than the rest of the cars at
the test on its first run --- and that _before_ the obvious
increase in engine power that would come from the powerband
being traded for power --- and was promptly banned. The
rules now mandate a minimum of two and maximum of seven
gears --- that avoids the old ``is a CVT one gear or an
infinity of gears'' dispute. Obviously the myth of the cars
that never were helps its reputation --- see also the six-
wheel Williams [*] --- but the idea is clearly sound.

Had Williams been allowed to race it, the credibility of CVT
would have hugely increased, as it would have blown the rest
of the field into the weeds. The old ``real men drive
manuals, it's the _control_ you know'' nonsense would have
been killed, Van Dorne would have been able to productionise
a credible high-performance CVT, cars would genuinely now be
different. Precious little of F1 technology will rub off
into road cars --- do you need 18000rpm? Carbon/carbon
brakes? --- but CVT would have been a real winner.

Great shame.

ian

[*] 2 at the front, 4 at the back, like the still-born
March. Now holds the outright record at Goodwood Hillclimb,
driven by Palmer. The famous Tyrell P34 is now cleaning up
in Historic F1 and BOSS, engineered by the designer Derek
Gardner, because it has decent front tyres available from
Avon. What killed it in 1977 was the lack of fronts.

On Mon, 24 May 2004 15:45:19 +0000 (UTC), Ian G Batten
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Just zis Guy, you know? <guy.chapman+usenet-

Quoted message said:

No ottermatic, tho. Can't think why so few diesels are
offered with an ottermatic option.

Because if you're having a diesel for the emmissions, the
auto kills
it.

According tiot the official figures, autos normally kill
about 10% of mileage, and diesel brings it up 20-30%.

Quoted message said:

Which is silly: my experience of running autos is that you
actually get the fuel consumption quoted, whereas with
manuals you never do, so in practical use the difference is
much smaller than it is on paper. And from a technical
perspective, five-speed autos are expensive to build but
diesels have narrow power-bands.

--
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On Mon, 24 May 2004 15:45:19 +0000 (UTC), Ian G Batten
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Just zis Guy, you know? <guy.chapman+usenet-

Quoted message said:

No ottermatic, tho. Can't think why so few diesels are
offered with an ottermatic option.

Because if you're having a diesel for the emmissions, the
auto kills
it. Which is silly: my experience of running autos is that
you actually get the fuel consumption quoted, whereas
with manuals you never do, so in practical use the
difference is much smaller than it is on paper. And
from a technical perspective, five-speed autos are
expensive to build but diesels have narrow power-
bands.

Yes, diesels are naturals for continuously-variable
transmissions, where the engine sits in its power-band all
the time (in fact normally even tighter than than, sits at
the torque peak all the time) and the gearbox changes ratio
all the time.

--
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links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk)
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On Mon, 24 May 2004 19:18:55 +0100, Gawnsoft
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

diesels are naturals for continuously-variable
transmissions, where the engine sits in its power-band all
the time (in fact normally even tighter than than, sits at
the torque peak all the time) and the gearbox changes ratio
all the time.

Makes sense to me. My bro-in-law was driving a CVT-equipped
Honda t'other day; it also had a fake 7-speed paddle shift
mode. Normally I like Hondas, but that seemed unusually
pointless to me!

Guy
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you know? said:

On Sun, 23 May 2004 22:53:42 +0000 (UTC), Ian G Batten
<[email hidden]> wrote in message <c8ra1m$19p$1@news-
out.ftel.co.uk>:

Quoted message said:

No one is raising the main problem with 4WD vehicles.
There are only three off-roaders which are aesthetic
objects: the wartime [censored]'s Jeep, the Series I through
Series III Land Rover, especially in 108" form, and the
original 2 door Range Rover with hose-out interior. The
rest are just gin-palaces, surely?

Now there I cannot but agree. I nearly bought a LWB Series
III Safari as a plaything some time back, but got talked
out of it.

Landy air portable was my first car. But in those days I had
good reason and it was used in anger.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's possible that someone has bought an X5 or an M-Series
who isn't an idiot. But I'm guessing it's unlikely.

It could happen. In theory.

I'll introduce you to my theoretical other half, in
that case.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And all MPVs are [censored], too, except the original Matra-
built Espace. If you want a big estate car, buy a big
estate car. 4x4s and MPVs are just rubbish ways to
avoid it.

Maybe MPVs are better now. The last Galaxy I drove cornered
like a blancmage but managed to transmit every tiny pebble
impact direct to the driver's back.

All OT. Galaxies are good for bikes, allegedly. You can get
four people and four bikes inside. Except that you'd
actually buy the Seat turbodiesel not the Ford. Should be
called the Tracy, anyway, since the VW is called Sharan.

Guy

Just zis Guy said:

Maybe MPVs are better now. The last Galaxy I drove
cornered like a blancmage but managed to transmit every
tiny pebble impact direct to the driver's back.

All OT. Galaxies are good for bikes, allegedly. You can
get four people and four bikes inside. Except that you'd
actually buy the Seat turbodiesel not the Ford. Should be
called the Tracy, anyway, since the VW is called Sharan.

Oh no, I'd not change my Galaxy for (almost) anything. It's
fantastic (well, for an MPV), and it's big, and it fits all
the kids and two more if I need to besides, and it drives
not too much unlike a car, far better that the Renault Eee-
spac, or the Toyota Pervia. The VW Sharon was maybe better
on cornering, but a bit gutless and I couldn't bring byself
to but something called a "Chair" at the cheaper end ;-)

You can fit stacks of the garden in it to go to the tip, as
well, and it has a flat load area from the front seats back
with all the seats out.

It's hard to fit 4 bikes in, though, with 4 seats, but I
guess it could be done.

You can keep your Volvos.

--
Trev

Tony Raven [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Many owners are likely to have done some off-roading
and/or training at one time or other so its a false
assumption that because they can afford an expensive car
they know nothing.

The 5% used off-raod, 95% never taken off-road stat doesn't
seem to agree with that. Unless you meant most owners who
use them off-road.

Jon