I-Pod war?

landotter wrote:
:: My safety is my business, and I'll happily remind people to obey the
:: law.

So, you're saying that all laws should be obeyed? What about those against
sodomy?

Want to listen to an iPod and ride? Do it on the trainer.
:: Wearing one on the bike path or street is being selfish and a finger
:: in the eye of other's safety.
::
:: I don't go on about helmets, that's personal choice, but riding the
:: wrong way, or riding and choosing to cut off one of your senses
:: affects everybody's safety.

What about those who have poor hearing or who can't hear you because of wind
noise?

::
:: Your freedom ends where mine begins.

And just where one riding with iPod affect your freedom? Does one not
wearing iPod but lost in a daydream while riding impinge on your freedom.
What about someone riding while taking? Looking at the scenery?

Are you really this stupid?

andy gee wrote:
:: "Gooserider" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:: news:[email hidden]:
::
::: That's because a certain poster leapt at the opportunity to become
::: the safety nanny for the newsgroup. Why people can't just STFU and
::: mind their own business is beyond me.
::
:: I didn't get involved in the flame war, didn't even read it, but
:: speaking of safety nannies, I have an observation:
::
:: The other day I was riding down my local greenway. I was gaining on
:: a rider and was contemplating passing. From behind, she looked
:: properly kitted out and looked like a responsible rider, so I called
:: out "passing left" and made my move. In one of those moments of
:: inevitability, she apparently hadn't heard me and picked that moment
:: to swing out to the left a little, possibly to avoid something on
:: the ground, but adding a lot of anxiety to my pass. When I got a
:: closer look, there, camoflogued by the helmet straps, were those
:: tiny i-pod earphones. Had I been aware that she had earphones in, I
:: definitely would have done the pass differently.
::
:: This isn't just nitpicking and nannyism. She put us both at risk,
:: myself unaware. In New York, it's illegal to drive a vehicle with
:: earphones in both ears.

Obviously, her mistake was not looking to her left and assuming no one was
there. Since she didn't hear you, that situation could have existed whether
she had phones on or not.

::
:: And now I'll STFU.
::
:: --ag

Gooserider said:

"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Want to listen to an iPod and ride? Do it on the trainer. Wearing

Quoted message said:

one on the bike path or street is being selfish and a finger in the eye
of other's safety.

You are in more danger of being run over by a harried motorist on a cell
phone, or run into by a racer hammering head down.

Or for a special bonus, I almost had a headon with a racer (or at least
a wannabe) fiddling with his iPod with his hands off the bars and not
watching where he was going. He was on the wrong side of the MUP [1]
(because he had just passed a ped) and I was approaching at about 25-30
mph, since I had a downhill.

It took quite a bit of screaming before I could get his attention.

Did I miss anything with that example? Oh yes! He was wearing a
helmet, safety first!

[1] And to those of you [censored] who posit "You should be riding on the
road!" Tell me how to get from home to work without using this MUP:

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/zuvembi/home2work-overviewmap.gif

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism
by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw

Scott L wrote:
:: andy gee wrote:
::: "Gooserider" <[email hidden]> wrote in
::: news:[email hidden]:
:::
:::
:::: That's because a certain poster leapt at the opportunity to become
:::: the safety nanny for the newsgroup. Why people can't just STFU and
:::: mind their own business is beyond me.
:::
:::
::: I didn't get involved in the flame war, didn't even read it, but
::: speaking of safety nannies, I have an observation:
:::
::: The other day I was riding down my local greenway. I was gaining
::: on a rider and was contemplating passing. From behind, she looked
::: properly kitted out and looked like a responsible rider, so I
::: called out "passing left" and made my move. In one of those
::: moments of inevitability, she apparently hadn't heard me and picked
::: that moment to swing out to the left a little, possibly to avoid
::: something on the ground, but adding a lot of anxiety to my pass.
::: When I got a closer look, there, camoflogued by the helmet straps,
::: were those tiny i-pod earphones. Had I been aware that she had
::: earphones in, I definitely would have done the pass differently.
::
:: Yes, this is my chief complaint as well. Often you
:: can't tell if a person is podding until it's too late.
:: At least with headphones there is a visual clue when
:: passing that they might not hear you.
::
:: When I call passing on your left on the MUP I use on
:: the ride home, the people who don't react inevitably
:: are wearing earbuds. That's fine if they don't do
:: something unusual. But if they are going to move in
:: an unexpected manner, I hope they're looking first,
:: because they sure aren't hearing.
::

Still, it's your responsibility to pass safely, even if the person heard
you.

:: Scott

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roger Zoul said:

[email hidden] wrote:
:: Gooserider wrote:
::: "jb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
::: news:[email hidden]...
:::: Jogging or bicycling with headphones on is inherently dangerous.
:::
::: So is LIFE. Hell, so is bicycling in traffic. Why don't you just
::: stay home under the covers?
::
:: Bed rest is quite dangerous too.
::
:: But then the odds of living to 100 years are quite small.

Passive smoke, too, yet people are still allow to smoke in public places and
subject others to their vile smoke.

Even worse, people are still allowed to drive in public places
and subject others to their asthma-inducing, vile car exhaust.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

"Scott L" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gooserider said:

"Bill Baka" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You guys amaze me.
Some of you, at least.
I posted a pointer to an article that was written about the possibility
of I-Pods damaging a persons hearing, and it turned into a flame war.
Chill, ride, summer is coming.
Bill Baka

That's because a certain poster leapt at the opportunity to become the
safety nanny for the newsgroup. Why people can't just STFU and mind their
own business is beyond me.

Thank you for pegging my irony meter.

Scott

Whatever, Scott.

"Marz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

"Gooserider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"jb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Jogging or bicycling with headphones on is inherently dangerous.

So is LIFE. Hell, so is bicycling in traffic. Why don't you just stay
home
under the covers?

It is best to sleep UNDER the bed. That way you fool those who would do
you
harm. They will expect you to be in bed, not under it. It is also good to
have a shotgun at your side. You never know when you may need it.

But a clever man would know it's foolish to stay in the bed and it's
safer to be under the bed, therefore the clever assassin would aim
under the bed. To outwit the clever assassin it's safer to stay in the
bed.

[...]

Those who go about with murder in mind are as stupid as they come. A clever
man never has to resort to murder. Don't you watch 'NYPD Blue' on TV? Stop
watching 'Law and Order - Criminal Intent'. Yes, it is the best cop show on
TV, but it is totally unrealistic.

Back in the 60's I did some mighty dicey camping. There were lots of
hippie-yippies wandering about in those days and so I would set up a false
camp with tent and then go sleep in my sleeping bag some distance away from
the tent. I later learned this was an old Indian trick that I had
unconsciously stumbled upon. Damn, it is really hard to get a good night's
sleep when you are worried about being assassinated.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Marz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

andy gee said:

"Gooserider" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

That's because a certain poster leapt at the opportunity to become the
safety nanny for the newsgroup. Why people can't just STFU and mind
their own business is beyond me.

I didn't get involved in the flame war, didn't even read it, but
speaking of safety nannies, I have an observation:

The other day I was riding down my local greenway. I was gaining on a
rider and was contemplating passing. From behind, she looked properly
kitted out and looked like a responsible rider, so I called out "passing
left" and made my move. In one of those moments of inevitability, she
apparently hadn't heard me and picked that moment to swing out to the
left a little, possibly to avoid something on the ground, but adding a
lot of anxiety to my pass. When I got a closer look, there, camoflogued
by the helmet straps, were those tiny i-pod earphones. Had I been aware
that she had earphones in, I definitely would have done the pass
differently.

This isn't just nitpicking and nannyism. She put us both at risk,
myself unaware. In New York, it's illegal to drive a vehicle with
earphones in both ears.

And now I'll STFU.

--ag

I like that. You enter someone else's personal space and because they
are unaware of you they get the blame for putting everyone at risk, you
donut! Please go back and learn how to ride a bike. The whole point of
'passing left' or a bell is to alert someone of your presence, if you
get no acknowledgement then it's likely you weren't heard or understood
and so the ownership of risk is still with you.

When you indicate to change lanes on the highway do you just indicate,
assume that everyone saw you indicate and change lanes or do indicate,
showing intent to move, check if it's clear or that someone is giving
you space and then change lanes.

Laters,

Marz

Very well put, Marz. If one passes a jogger, blader, or another cyclist
properly, it doesn't matter if they can hear or not. Get around them. Pass
them like we would all like cars to pass us.

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

landotter said:

My safety is my business, and I'll happily remind people to obey the
law. Want to listen to an iPod and ride? Do it on the trainer. Wearing
one on the bike path or street is being selfish and a finger in the eye
of other's safety.

I don't go on about helmets, that's personal choice, but riding the
wrong way, or riding and choosing to cut off one of your senses affects
everybody's safety.

Your freedom ends where mine begins.

I listen to radio as I commute. I'm biking for over an hour each way,
do you really expect me to waste that time? I rarely listen to music
though, most of the time I have talk radio on. Usually Air America or
Pacifica, that way I can actually learn something.

Sometimes I listen to lectures or webcasts. I never have the volume
high enough to intefere with hearing what's around me. In the summer I
drive with the windows closed and music on. I can't hear a thing that
occurs around the car.

Just keep alert, that's the idea.

Was there a huge debate when radios were first being installed in
cars?

I agree with dgk. It gets to be mighty boring to ride the same old route
everyday and listening to some music while riding makes the ride ever so
much more enjoyable.

I mainly ride around my home town on a daily basis and I know all the
traffic and other hazards without having to even think about them anymore. I
like to wear a headband over my ears to cut out all of the outside noise. I
do this on even the hottest of days. I count on my eyes to keep me safe.

Yet I know what Roger Zoul and landotter are saying also. I would NEVER wear
headphones while cycling in unfamiliar territory and I would most certainly
NEVER wear them while doing a group bike tour. I wear them strictly on my
solo rides about my home town. Surely, that is a reasonably safe thing to
do.

One other thing, I do not like to see kids wearing headphones. They are too
stupid to be doing anything which distracts from the business of riding a
bike safely.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Gooserider" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"Marz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I like that. You enter someone else's personal space and because they
are unaware of you they get the blame for putting everyone at risk,
you donut! Please go back and learn how to ride a bike. The whole
point of 'passing left' or a bell is to alert someone of your
presence, if you get no acknowledgement then it's likely you weren't
heard or understood and so the ownership of risk is still with you.

When you indicate to change lanes on the highway do you just
indicate, assume that everyone saw you indicate and change lanes or
do indicate, showing intent to move, check if it's clear or that
someone is giving you space and then change lanes.

Laters,

Marz

Very well put, Marz. If one passes a jogger, blader, or another
cyclist properly, it doesn't matter if they can hear or not. Get
around them. Pass them like we would all like cars to pass us.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I made the situation clear.

There is a north bound lane and a south bound lane. We were both riding
south in the south bound lane. The north bound lane was clear. I
signalled to pass and moved into the north bound lane. Then she
suddenly moved into the north bound lane as well. She was violating two
NYS driving regulations at the time -- no mirror (which I couldn't
confirm until after I passed) and clogged ears. But you are saying that
I violated her personal space?

Who here has driven a car, signalled to make such a pass, and waited for
the driver ahead to acknowledge? What state has a law or regulation
like that?

--ag