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I received a traffic citation tonight.

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Road Cycling
Published
31 October 2003
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5 November 2003
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Dlakey
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  1. Hello fellow bikers.

    I had a most interesting experience tonight. I was commuting home from work. It is approximately 3.6
    miles from work to home. I was about a mile into my commute home at 9:30PM riding in the right half
    of the right hand land of a 5 lane road. I usually average about 15 mph on my commutes. Speedlimit
    in this area is 40mph I believe. I have reflectors on both front and back of my bike, I have a
    cateye headlight on and a blinking tail light. I am wearing a helment. I hear this PA come on behind
    me saying, "get off the road, that's what sidewalks are for." Well my first reaction is that this
    must be some kid who has a PA hooked up in their car. Well I look back over my shoulder and notice
    it is a police car. Well at this point I'm thinking what the hell? I go ahead and pull over to the
    sidewalk and stop thinking he is going to stop too so I can ask him what the hell. Well he takes off
    and goes on. Well I have read these boards enough to know that the sidewalk is not the safest place
    to be. I also know the laws here in arksnas enough to know that I have a right to the road. Well I
    go ahead and pull back out into the road and try to catch up to the officer to ask him what the hell
    he is talking about. Well at this point he has gotten so far ahead I can't see him. About a mile
    farther down the road I see the blue lights behind me. I go ahead and pull over into the parking lot
    of a restaurant. He get's out of his car and I can tell right away he has a serious attitude. Hell
    he was just a kid. I wouldn't be suprised if he wasn't young enough to be my son. Well he certainly
    didn't show me any respect. He get's out of his car and tells me "I warned you once to get out of
    the road, now I should just throw you in the car and haul you down to jail." I'm like whoa, what is
    this guys problem. Anyway, I maintain my cool, and in a very sensible way try to explain to him that
    my understanding was that a bicycle had as much right to the road as any other vehicle. He proceeded
    to tell me that this was absolutely not the case, and if you were going to be on a bike you had to
    either be on the sidewalk, or over in the grass if there wasn't a sidewalk. I tried to tell him that
    my understanding of the law was that you had to have a reflector front and back and a headlight on
    the front. And ride on the right side of the road. He tells me I am wrong. I ask him if he could
    provide me with the particular law that backs him up. He tells me he doesn't have to do that and out
    there on the road he IS the law. I ask him if there is any one to appeal HIS decisions to he says
    NO. At this point he says he is just going to let me go with a warning. I guess I should have just
    let it go at that. Well I wanted to know what his name was so I asked him very nicely what his name
    was. Well this was apparantly the wrong thing to do. He's like "That's IT!" He get's his little cell
    phone out and calls up the station and starts asking them what he can cite me for. Well after
    talking to one person and not coming up with anything, she passes him to someone else and they
    finally come up with "Failure to obey a Police officer." Which just reinforces what I said all
    along, there was no law which said I couldn't ride in the road

    I'm sorry for my monoparagraph there but I am still somewhat upset about this whole thing. I never
    did smart off to him. I maintained my cool the whole time. The road was 2 lanes each direction with
    a turning lane in the middle typical of a business district.

    So is it true that the cops make up the laws while they are on the road??

    Should I fight the ticket?

    Thanks in advance for your advice

    Dan

  2. Quoted message said:

    So is it true that the cops make up the laws while they are on the road??

    No, they make them up at the donut shop.

    Making up laws on the road would be dangerous.

    --

    _______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
    the Texas Elvis"------------------
    __________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

  3. "dlakey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hello fellow bikers.

    I had a most interesting experience tonight. I was commuting home from


    work.

    Quoted message said:

    It is approximately 3.6 miles from work to home. I was about a mile into


    my

    Quoted message said:

    commute home at 9:30PM riding in the right half of the right hand land of


    a

    Quoted message said:

    5 lane road. I usually average about 15 mph on my commutes. Speedlimit in this area is 40mph I
    believe. I have reflectors on both front and back of


    my

    Quoted message said:

    bike, I have a cateye headlight on and a blinking tail light. I am wearing


    a

    Quoted message said:

    helment. I hear this PA come on behind me saying, "get off the road,


    that's

    Quoted message said:

    what sidewalks are for." Well my first reaction is that this must be some kid who has a PA hooked
    up in their car. Well I look back over my shoulder and notice it is a police car. Well at this
    point I'm thinking what the hell? I go ahead and pull over to the sidewalk and stop thinking he is


    going

    Quoted message said:

    to stop too so I can ask him what the hell. Well he takes off and goes on. Well I have read these
    boards enough to know that the sidewalk is not the safest place to be. I also know the laws here
    in arksnas enough to know


    that

    Quoted message said:

    I have a right to the road. Well I go ahead and pull back out into the


    road

    Quoted message said:

    and try to catch up to the officer to ask him what the hell he is talking about. Well at this
    point he has gotten so far ahead I can't see him.


    About

    Quoted message said:

    a mile farther down the road I see the blue lights behind me. I go ahead


    and

    Quoted message said:

    pull over into the parking lot of a restaurant. He get's out of his car


    and

    Quoted message said:

    I can tell right away he has a serious attitude. Hell he was just a kid. I wouldn't be suprised if
    he wasn't young enough to be my son. Well he certainly didn't show me any respect. He get's out of
    his car and tells me "I warned you once to get out of the road, now I should just throw you in the
    car and haul you down to jail." I'm like whoa, what is this guys problem. Anyway, I maintain my
    cool, and in a very sensible way try to explain to him that my understanding was that a bicycle
    had as much right


    to

    Quoted message said:

    the road as any other vehicle. He proceeded to tell me that this was absolutely not the case, and
    if you were going to be on a bike you had to either be on the sidewalk, or over in the grass if
    there wasn't a


    sidewalk.

    Quoted message said:

    I tried to tell him that my understanding of the law was that you had to have a reflector front
    and back and a headlight on the front. And ride on the right side of the road. He tells me I am
    wrong. I ask him if he could provide me with the particular law that backs him up. He tells me he


    doesn't

    Quoted message said:

    have to do that and out there on the road he IS the law. I ask him if


    there

    Quoted message said:

    is any one to appeal HIS decisions to he says NO. At this point he says he is just going to let me
    go with a warning. I guess I should have just let


    it

    Quoted message said:

    go at that. Well I wanted to know what his name was so I asked him very nicely what his name was.
    Well this was apparantly the wrong thing to do. He's like "That's IT!" He get's his little cell
    phone out and calls up the station and starts asking them what he can cite me for. Well after
    talking to one person and not coming up with anything, she passes him to someone else and they
    finally come up with "Failure to obey a Police officer."


    Which

    Quoted message said:

    just reinforces what I said all along, there was no law which said I couldn't ride in the road

    I'm sorry for my monoparagraph there but I am still somewhat upset about this whole thing. I never
    did smart off to him. I maintained my cool the whole time. The road was 2 lanes each direction
    with a turning lane in the middle typical of a business district.

    So is it true that the cops make up the laws while they are on the road??

    Should I fight the ticket?

    Thanks in advance for your advice

    Dan

    IANACOAL

    A) Arkansas Legislation 27-49-111. Use of bicycles or animals. Every person riding a bicycle or an
    animal, or driving any animal drawing a vehicle upon a highway, shall have all the rights and all
    of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle, except those provisions of this act which by
    their nature can have no applicability.

    I found nothing that regulates bikes to the sidewalk. Nor any prohibition, either.

    B) "Failure to obey.." - Obey an unlawful, potentially dangerous order? Not a chance.

    C) Fight it. I know I would

    Pete

  4. dlakey said:

    So is it true that the cops make up the laws while they are on the road??


    of course not. this kid needs to go back to police academy.

    Quoted message said:

    Should I fight the ticket?


    hell yes! he can't cite you for failing to obey an ILLEGAL order.

    the online citation of the arkansas law is -"]http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/NXT/gateway.dll/ARCode/[censored]-
    le34788.htm/subtitle35775.htm/chapter35776.htm/subchapter35777/section35788.htm

    if you want to search the state codes, go to arkleg.state.ar.usar code.asp

    i always carry a copy of state statutes and regs pertaining to bike in my bike bag. it's been
    printed to fold up to wallet size by our bike club, and we used them as safety handouts for
    several years.

    the relevant laws for arkansas appear to be very brief --- you might want to copy and paste the
    relevant parts from your browser into word, and then print it in small type, so it's pocket sized.

  5. Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:53:51 -0600, <[email hidden]>, "dlakey"

    Quoted message said:

    Should I fight the ticket?

    If you've a chance of winning. If not, set fire to the police station.

    That stupid punk should be put on bicycle patrol for a few years until he smartens-up or some
    righteous pedestrian smacks 'em down for riding on the sidewalk.

    Sidewalk riding is prohibited here unless specifically permitted or required by signs or directed by
    a police officer.
    --
    zk

  6. dlakey said:

    Hello fellow bikers.


    [...]

    Sorry, I find your story impossible to believe.

  7. I hope your kidding, because I am most certainly NOT joking with you. Believe me I wish I was!!! I
    really wish I had a scanner, I would scan this freaking ticket and post it on the web and tell you
    to stick it up your A$$!

    Under vehicle description/MAKE/MODEL he wrote in Bicycle.

    Under violaTION HE checks other. and cites Arkansas 27-49-107 or 103 I really can't read which it
    is, but it says Disobeyed Police Officer.

    If you don't believe me OH WELL, that is your probelem, but I really hope you are just joking.

    Dan "223rem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    dlakey said:

    Hello fellow bikers.


    [...]

    Sorry, I find your story impossible to believe.

  8. dlakey said:

    I hope your kidding, because I am most certainly NOT joking with you. Believe me I wish I was!!! I
    really wish I had a scanner, I would scan this freaking ticket and post it on the web and tell you
    to stick it up your A$$!

    Riding on the sidewalk is illegal (unless you are 5 years old or something). Even the most retarded
    cop would know that.

    So there must be something you are not telling. He didnt bust you for not riding on the sidewalk.

  9. (Dennis P. Harris) said:

    i always carry a copy of state statutes and regs pertaining to bike in my bike bag. it's been
    printed to fold up to wallet size by our bike club, and we used them as safety handouts for
    several years.

    What a great idea!

  10. 223rem said:
    dlakey said:

    Hello fellow bikers.


    [...]

    Sorry, I find your story impossible to believe.

    Yes. Besides, you should always do what the nice policeman says.

  11. I see that you are doing what I suggested in my response to your touring@phred post. Keep the faith!
    Don't be distracted by the nay-sayers.

    "dlakey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I hope your kidding, because I am most certainly NOT joking with you. Believe me I wish I was!!! I
    really wish I had a scanner, I would scan


    this

    Quoted message said:

    freaking ticket and post it on the web and tell you to stick it up your


    A$$!

    Quoted message said:


    Under vehicle description/MAKE/MODEL he wrote in Bicycle.

    Under violaTION HE checks other. and cites Arkansas 27-49-107 or 103 I really can't read which it
    is, but it says Disobeyed Police Officer.

    If you don't believe me OH WELL, that is your probelem, but I really hope you are just joking.

  12. Please please please... fight that ticket. Citizens, whether cyclists or not, cannot allow police to
    run rough-shod over us like that. You were treated terribly.

    "dlakey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hello fellow bikers.

    I had a most interesting experience tonight. I was commuting home from


    work.

    Quoted message said:

    It is approximately 3.6 miles from work to home. I was about a mile into


    my

    Quoted message said:

    commute home at 9:30PM riding in the right half of the right hand land of


    a

    Quoted message said:

    5 lane road. I usually average about 15 mph on my commutes. Speedlimit in this area is 40mph I
    believe. I have reflectors on both front and back of


    my

    Quoted message said:

    bike, I have a cateye headlight on and a blinking tail light. I am wearing


    a

    Quoted message said:

    helment. I hear this PA come on behind me saying, "get off the road,


    that's

    Quoted message said:

    what sidewalks are for." Well my first reaction is that this must be some kid who has a PA hooked
    up in their car. Well I look back over my shoulder and notice it is a police car. Well at this
    point I'm thinking what the hell? I go ahead and pull over to the sidewalk and stop thinking he is


    going

    Quoted message said:

    to stop too so I can ask him what the hell. Well he takes off and goes on. Well I have read these
    boards enough to know that the sidewalk is not the safest place to be. I also know the laws here
    in arksnas enough to know


    that

    Quoted message said:

    I have a right to the road. Well I go ahead and pull back out into the


    road

    Quoted message said:

    and try to catch up to the officer to ask him what the hell he is talking about. Well at this
    point he has gotten so far ahead I can't see him.


    About

    Quoted message said:

    a mile farther down the road I see the blue lights behind me. I go ahead


    and

    Quoted message said:

    pull over into the parking lot of a restaurant. He get's out of his car


    and

    Quoted message said:

    I can tell right away he has a serious attitude. Hell he was just a kid. I wouldn't be suprised if
    he wasn't young enough to be my son. Well he certainly didn't show me any respect. He get's out of
    his car and tells me "I warned you once to get out of the road, now I should just throw you in the
    car and haul you down to jail." I'm like whoa, what is this guys problem. Anyway, I maintain my
    cool, and in a very sensible way try to explain to him that my understanding was that a bicycle
    had as much right


    to

    Quoted message said:

    the road as any other vehicle. He proceeded to tell me that this was absolutely not the case, and
    if you were going to be on a bike you had to either be on the sidewalk, or over in the grass if
    there wasn't a


    sidewalk.

    Quoted message said:

    I tried to tell him that my understanding of the law was that you had to have a reflector front
    and back and a headlight on the front. And ride on the right side of the road. He tells me I am
    wrong. I ask him if he could provide me with the particular law that backs him up. He tells me he


    doesn't

    Quoted message said:

    have to do that and out there on the road he IS the law. I ask him if


    there

    Quoted message said:

    is any one to appeal HIS decisions to he says NO. At this point he says he is just going to let me
    go with a warning. I guess I should have just let


    it

    Quoted message said:

    go at that. Well I wanted to know what his name was so I asked him very nicely what his name was.
    Well this was apparantly the wrong thing to do. He's like "That's IT!" He get's his little cell
    phone out and calls up the station and starts asking them what he can cite me for. Well after
    talking to one person and not coming up with anything, she passes him to someone else and they
    finally come up with "Failure to obey a Police officer."


    Which

    Quoted message said:

    just reinforces what I said all along, there was no law which said I couldn't ride in the road

    I'm sorry for my monoparagraph there but I am still somewhat upset about this whole thing. I never
    did smart off to him. I maintained my cool the whole time. The road was 2 lanes each direction
    with a turning lane in the middle typical of a business district.

    So is it true that the cops make up the laws while they are on the road??

    Should I fight the ticket?

    Thanks in advance for your advice

    Dan

  13. In article <[email hidden]>, dlakey@NOcox- internetSPAM.com says...

    Quoted message said:

    Hello fellow bikers.

    I had a most interesting experience tonight. I was commuting home from work. It is approximately
    3.6 miles from work to home. I was about a mile into my commute home at 9:30PM riding in the right
    half of the right hand land of a 5 lane road. I usually average about 15 mph on my commutes.
    Speedlimit in this area is 40mph I believe. I have reflectors on both front and back of my bike, I
    have a cateye headlight on and a blinking tail light. I am wearing a helment. I hear this PA come
    on behind me saying, "get off the road, that's what sidewalks are for." Well my first reaction is
    that this must be some kid who has a PA hooked up in their car. Well I look back over my shoulder
    and notice it is a police car. Well at this point I'm thinking what the hell? I go ahead and pull
    over to the sidewalk and stop thinking he is going to stop too so I can ask him what the hell.
    Well he takes off and goes on. Well I have read these boards enough to know that the sidewalk is
    not the safest place to be. I also know the laws here in arksnas enough to know that I have a
    right to the road. Well I go ahead and pull back out into the road and try to catch up to the
    officer to ask him what the hell he is talking about. Well at this point he has gotten so far
    ahead I can't see him. About a mile farther down the road I see the blue lights behind me. I go
    ahead and pull over into the parking lot of a restaurant. He get's out of his car and I can tell
    right away he has a serious attitude. Hell he was just a kid. I wouldn't be suprised if he wasn't
    young enough to be my son. Well he certainly didn't show me any respect. He get's out of his car
    and tells me "I warned you once to get out of the road, now I should just throw you in the car and
    haul you down to jail." I'm like whoa, what is this guys problem. Anyway, I maintain my cool, and
    in a very sensible way try to explain to him that my understanding was that a bicycle had as much
    right to the road as any other vehicle. He proceeded to tell me that this was absolutely not the
    case, and if you were going to be on a bike you had to either be on the sidewalk, or over in the
    grass if there wasn't a sidewalk. I tried to tell him that my understanding of the law was that
    you had to have a reflector front and back and a headlight on the front. And ride on the right
    side of the road. He tells me I am wrong. I ask him if he could provide me with the particular law
    that backs him up. He tells me he doesn't have to do that and out there on the road he IS the law.
    I ask him if there is any one to appeal HIS decisions to he says NO. At this point he says he is
    just going to let me go with a warning. I guess I should have just let it go at that. Well I
    wanted to know what his name was so I asked him very nicely what his name was. Well this was
    apparantly the wrong thing to do. He's like "That's IT!" He get's his little cell phone out and
    calls up the station and starts asking them what he can cite me for. Well after talking to one
    person and not coming up with anything, she passes him to someone else and they finally come up
    with "Failure to obey a Police officer." Which just reinforces what I said all along, there was no
    law which said I couldn't ride in the road

    I'm sorry for my monoparagraph there but I am still somewhat upset about this whole thing. I never
    did smart off to him. I maintained my cool the whole time. The road was 2 lanes each direction
    with a turning lane in the middle typical of a business district.

    So is it true that the cops make up the laws while they are on the road??

    Should I fight the ticket?

    I think you'd get it thrown out in a heartbeat by any honest judge, but it might not be a good idea
    to [censored] the officer if he routinely patrols that section of road. Tough call as to whether or
    not to fight it.

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

  14. "Zippy the Pinhead" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    223rem said:
    dlakey said:

    Hello fellow bikers.


    [...]

    Sorry, I find your story impossible to believe.

    In the land of the free I'm sure they'd never do such a thing. But perhaps it could in the "land
    where a t-shirt can get you arrested if it disagrees with current government policy".

    Quoted message said:

    Yes. Besides, you should always do what the nice policeman says.

    Is that what George Michael said?

  15. 223rem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    dlakey said:

    I hope your kidding, because I am most certainly NOT joking with you. Believe me I wish I was!!!
    I really wish I had a scanner, I would scan


    this

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    freaking ticket and post it on the web and tell you to stick it up your


    A$$!

    Quoted message said:

    Riding on the sidewalk is illegal (unless you are 5 years old or something). Even the most
    retarded cop would know that.

    So there must be something you are not telling. He didnt bust you for not riding on the sidewalk.

    223:

    Shut up idiot.

    This individual has relayed a story which appears to be valid to me. If you lived in the midwest you
    may understand that in some rural areas, there are no laws other than what the local idot sheriff
    decides are the laws at his time of sugar withdrawal.

    I have also seen this attitude in younger law enforcement members, as if they have
    something to show.

    The laws are on the book for a reason. You were right to keep your cool - which probably [censored] him
    off even more. Its obvious that the locals have something against bicyclists or they wouldn't have
    tried to "find" a citation for you.

    Fight it. Fight it with all your might. I bet if you go to court, he won't even show up. Which will
    [censored] you off even more because you will have had to take time off of work to be there.

    Good luck and keep us posted,

    Kerry

  16. In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:
    dlakey said:

    I hope your kidding, because I am most certainly NOT joking with you. Believe me I wish I was!!!
    I really wish I had a scanner, I would scan this freaking ticket and post it on the web and tell
    you to stick it up your A$$!

    Riding on the sidewalk is illegal (unless you are 5 years old or something). Even the most
    retarded cop would know that.

    That depends on the location.

    Quoted message said:


    So there must be something you are not telling. He didnt bust you for not riding on the sidewalk.

    He couldn't; when he called his supervisor he found out it wasn't illegal.

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

  17. Dan:

    Another thing I thought of was to correspond with any State of Arkansas bicycling advocacy groups.
    They may have someone close to your area that could aid you or maybe even attend a trial (don't know
    if a trial date has been set up yet).

    Or maybe you should wait for the outcome of the initial trial/hearing to see happens. If you get no
    satisfaction from the judge, contact the local advocacy group (Bicycle Advocacy of Central Arkansas;
    per google) and see what they can do for you.

    I am sure LAB would also help if needed.

    Again, please keep us posted.

    Kerry Nikolaisen

  18. Quoted message said:

    "dlakey" [email hidden]

    wrote a rather long post and then asked:

    Quoted message said:

    So is it true that the cops make up the laws while they are on the road??

    ---snip---

    No, you just met a jerk that happened to be wearing a badge. Every occupation has it's
    share of jerks.

    Quoted message said:

    Should I fight the ticket?

    There's no need to "fight" the ticket. Go to court armed with copies of the appropriate local
    statutes and plead not guilty. Mention the phrase, "Franks motion". The ticket will likely be
    dismissed on the spot.

    Regards, Bob Hunt

  19. Quoted message said:

    David Kerber ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net

    Quoted message said:

    I think you'd get it thrown out in a heartbeat by any honest judge, but it might not be a good idea
    to [censored] the officer if he routinely patrols that section of road. Tough call as to whether or
    not to fight it.

    I usually find myself agreeing with you Dave but definitely not this time. From the OP's version of
    events I'd have to conclude the cop was 100% wrong. I don't care if he's wearing a badge or not,
    when someone is *this* wrong you should try to redress your grievance and the place to do that when
    dealing with the police is in court. In addition to pleading not guilty in court, the OP should
    bring the ticket to the issuing officer's headquarters and ask to speak to the officer's supervisor.
    If that supervisor is even minimally competent the chances are he's already reamed the officer for
    his actions. When I've been in a supervisory role the phrase I've used is, "There's real work that
    needs to be done out there. Try removing your head from your ass and doing some of it.".

    Regards, Bob Hunt

  20. Rivermist said:

    Please please please... fight that ticket. Citizens, whether cyclists or not, cannot allow police
    to run rough-shod over us like that. You were treated terribly.

    And look into having the officer cited for illegal harrassment.

    --
    Steven O'Neill [email hidden] www.bridgetolls.org

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