Injury caused by bad road surface

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by rayng223, Feb 24, 2003.

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  1. rayng223

    rayng223 Guest

    A friend has just suffered a broken collar bone after riding into a pothole around a road manhole
    cover. Has he case to sue the council or whoever? He says that he does not like the current 'sue for
    any excuse' culture but I argue that others can suffer if whoever is responsible are not encouraged
    to maintain the road surfaces in a safe state.
     
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  2. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:08:26 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] wrote:

    >A friend has just suffered a broken collar bone after riding into a pothole around a road manhole
    >cover. Has he case to sue the council or whoever?

    Absolutely. Whether he chooses to pursue it is another matter. I would be inclined to seek redress
    for any quantifiable loss (e.g. bent wheels) and maybe a small amount for pain and suffering. I
    don't like suing, especially when it's my money, but actual injury is a Bad Thing and a good excuse
    for a trip to the small claims court.

    Take photographs NOW, just in case.

    But last itme I bent a wheel on a pothole I phoned for a claim form and before I'd filled in the
    form they had done a completely pukka job of repairing it and several other large holes nearby. I
    rang the guy and said I was so impressed with the repair that I wouldn't bother claiming - it's a
    road the CTC use very frequently, and having all the big holes filled was a tremendous plus.

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
    dynamic DNS permitting)
    NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
    work. Apologies.
     
  3. "Nathaniel Porter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > Litigation won't encourage the LA to repair the road, it'll deprive the of the money necessary to
    > do the repairs. Try threats, but taking it the
    whole
    > hog won't help IMO.

    But at least a bit of compensation will take the sting out of the accident to some degree. It's not
    like the people who claim they have tripped on a paving slab, and are surrering from "whiplash". A
    broken bone is a broken bone at the end of the day.
     
  4. <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > A friend has just suffered a broken collar bone after riding into a pothole around a road manhole
    > cover. Has he case to sue the council or whoever? He says that he does not like the current 'sue
    > for any excuse' culture but I argue that others can suffer if whoever is responsible are not
    > encouraged to maintain the road surfaces in a safe state.
    >

    Litigation won't encourage the LA to repair the road, it'll deprive the of the money necessary to do
    the repairs. Try threats, but taking it the whole hog won't help IMO.
     
  5. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > Absolutely. Whether he chooses to pursue it is another matter. I would be inclined to seek redress
    > for any quantifiable loss (e.g. bent wheels) and maybe a small amount for pain and suffering. I
    > don't like suing, especially when it's my money, but actual injury is a Bad Thing and a good
    > excuse for a trip to the small claims court.
    >

    Except the people who actually pay are the ratepayers so we are all contributing towards the
    redress. Doesn't cost the council a penny - just stick it on next year's rates hike.

    Tony
     
  6. Tony Raven wrote:
    > Except the people who actually pay are the ratepayers so we are all contributing towards the
    > redress. Doesn't cost the council a penny - just stick it on next year's rates hike.
    >
    > Tony

    I don't like having to contribute towards the redress but that's the way the system works. I assume
    that councils have liability isurance for this kind of incident.

    It probably does cost the council, too. They don't have complete freedom to set council taxes and
    they can still be voted out if they don't maintain proper standards or increase the tax too much.
    --
    Michael MacClancy
     
  7. "Michael MacClancy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Tony Raven wrote:
    > > Except the people who actually pay are the ratepayers so we are all contributing towards the
    > > redress. Doesn't cost the council a penny - just stick it on next year's rates hike.
    > >
    > > Tony
    >
    > I don't like having to contribute towards the redress but that's the way
    the
    > system works. I assume that councils have liability isurance for this
    kind
    > of incident.

    Councils don't have liability insurance - they're self insuring, only a very few organisations are
    allowed by law to do this.

    > It probably does cost the council, too. They don't have complete freedom
    to
    > set council taxes and they can still be voted out if they don't maintain proper standards or
    > increase the tax too much.

    Last time I tried to claim off the council for a badly damaged wheel from a pothole they took it
    quite a long way defending themselves and maintaining that they did the required 6 month inspections
    (that was what was required for the particular road I was concerned with) and after that if they
    weren't aware of the problem that they weren't laible and even quoted the appropriate legislation
    which excused them from liability. I had quite an exchange of letters (the wheel was on my car- was
    written off and cost me about £150 to replace) but in the end gave up as they clearly weren't going
    to pay up without going to court and on the face of it I didnt appear I had much of a case.

    Russ

    > --
    > Michael MacClancy
     
  8. Sandy Morton

    Sandy Morton Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    russell pinder <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Last time I tried to claim off the council for a badly damaged wheel from a pothole they took it
    > quite a long way defending themselves and maintaining that they did the required 6 month
    > inspections (that was what was required for the particular road I was concerned with) and after
    > that if they weren't aware of the problem that they weren't laible and even quoted the appropriate
    > legislation which excused them from liability.

    I'll pass on the length of time. I had a hire cycle wheel damaged (broken) in a pothole. North
    Ayrshire Council paid out in less than 3 weeks.

    It can be done.

    --
    A T (Sandy) Morton on the Bicycle Island In the Global Village http://www.sandymillport.fsnet.co.uk
     
  9. In Ireland the law is that if the pothole occurs in a repair, they are liable, othewise not.

    The cyclist in my view has an obligation to look at the road. If someone threw a brick on the road,
    what would happen to him.

    The bone will get better in 6 weeks.

    What you should do is to write to the council and point out what happened and leave it at that.
     
  10. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    Tony Raven wrote:
    > Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> Absolutely. Whether he chooses to pursue it is another matter. I would be inclined to seek
    >> redress for any quantifiable loss (e.g. bent wheels) and maybe a small amount for pain and
    >> suffering. I don't like suing, especially when it's my money, but actual injury is a Bad Thing
    >> and a good excuse for a trip to the small claims court.

    > Except the people who actually pay are the ratepayers so we are all contributing towards the
    > redress. Doesn't cost the council a penny - just stick it on next year's rates hike.

    Which is what I meant by it being my money - as a council tax payer. Of course it comes out of the
    council's insurance, which will put the premium up next year.

    But I would still consider suing in case of an injury or serious damage. Ultimately the fact that
    it's a public body doesn't excuse a failure to carry out their obligations, and arguably failing to
    make them hoonour their responsibilities is not doing them any favours.

    --
    Guy
    ===
    I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
    about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
    wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

    http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103 http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#104
     
  11. J-P.S

    J-P.S Guest

    On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:16:42 -0000, Gearóid Ó Laoi, Garry Lee scrawled: ) The cyclist in my view has
    an obligation to look at the road. If someone ) threw a brick on the road, what would happen to him.

    He would probably have a right, if he were able to trace the thrower of the brick, to sue him.
    Similarly for leaving sleepers on railway tracks, or throwing breeze blocks off motorway bridges.

    But there is a difference between a deliberate action that has clear potential consequences, and
    negligence. Negligence on the part of the council has of course to be weighed against possible
    negligence on the part of the cyclist. There is no doubt that cyclists should look where they are
    going. Yet there is such a thing as a duty on behalf of the council to maintain roads to a certain
    legal standard. If they were deficient then they are liable in law.

    Historically councils fight tooth and nail over this sort of action. While we are worrying about
    obtaining a few hundred pounds' compensation from them, they think nothing of spending tens of
    thousands of pounds on fighting such claims. In this way they hope to do the very thing you are
    advocating: discourage people from taking legal action. The original poster should have no qualms
    over attempting to obtain what may be both his legal and moral right.

    J-P
    --
    William G Stewart (battle planning and tactics), Johnny Ball (thinking backwards while drunk) and
    Tom O'Connor (Pun quartermaster)
     
  12. > A friend has just suffered a broken collar bone after riding into a pothole around a road manhole
    > cover. Has he case to sue the council or whoever?

    Before going nuclear, they could submit a claim on the assumption, hopefully justified, that the
    Council's insurance company will pay up. All the rules about geting evidence; photos of the cover,
    medical info' etc. still apply. A claim should also encourage speedy fixing of the problem. If
    somebody else has trouble, and it turns out, as shown by your friend's claim, that they knew about
    the problem, and did nothing, then they would be in trouble.

    Jeremy Parker
     
  13. Tim Woodall

    Tim Woodall Guest

    Well I've just done my bit to increase my rates.

    Logged four faults in one go.

    One of them shouldn't have occurred - Mud on road. Unfortuately, while it isn't that bad (to a car),
    it has set hard in little "hillocks".

    I nearly went for six last night when I hit it at about 20mph in the dark. It's difficult knowing
    whether to brake or just let the bike slow down on its own - I opted not to brake as I was already
    having trouble controlling the front wheel. Tonight at least I will hopefully remember it is there.

    One where the road surface has, after the cold spell, deteriorated to the point where I am
    forced to slow to about 17mph. Last year through until the autumn I was usually doing 20mph+ on
    the same stretch.

    One mini roundabout where the road surface is sufficiently bad that I have to slow down while going
    uphill in order to negociate the slots and pot holes. Unfortuantely the act of slowing down almost
    always results in a car overtaking on the roundabout resulting in hitting all the potholes anyway
    :-( Again this has gone from managable on a bike to unmanagable after the cold weather.

    And one where I wasn't sure whether I should have reported it or not. I made a trip to my local
    borders at the weekend. Almost without fail I would usually have driven or walked as my partner
    doesn't cycle (She doesn't have a particularly good sense of balance but I think the "I managed five
    yards on a bike once before I fell off" is slightly exagerated). As part of this journey I need to
    do a U-turn on a dual carriageway (at a roundabout). Despite expectations, the dual carriageway
    itself wasn't too much of a problem, it's supposed to be 40mph and it's sufficiently flat that I can
    maintain 20mph+ so getting into the right lane etc wasn't too traumatic. But the U turn. Uggh. I
    joined the roundabout at a fair speed (c15mph) carefully watching the traffic coming the other way
    and ready to brake hard. Suddenly "Shit. My front wheel is stuck" as it slipped into a grove where
    the road surfacing machines edge obviously was. A quick wiggle of the handlebars freed it but now I
    wasn't going in the right direction and having to make a sharp correction. "Ahhh. Here comes the
    grove again". Fortunately this time I managed to go over it rather than into it. "Phew. I'm clear".
    And then dawning. "Shit. I have no idea what any other vehicle was doing on that roundabout."

    Had I taken this roundabout in the highway code approved fashion from the LH lane I would probably
    not have had a problem with the surface. However, given that cars go straight on from both lanes
    (quite reasonably IMO) I don't think that this is any safer an option. And taking it from the RH
    lane and staying right isn't really an option because the filter lane to the superstore and retail
    park is about 20 yards from the roundabout.

    Fortunately for me, I probably won't be cycling this route again in a hurry.

    Regards,

    Tim.

    --
    God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.

    http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/
     
  14. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    Tim Woodall wrote:

    > And one where I wasn't sure whether I should have reported it or not. [snip] My front wheel is
    > stuck" as it slipped into a grove where the road surfacing machines edge obviously was.

    Horrible. Not come across a slot like that, but I would undoubtedly report
    it. Nasty.

    --
    Guy
    ===
    I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
    about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
    wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

    http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103 http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#104
     
  15. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

    [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > A friend has just suffered a broken collar bone after riding into a pothole around a road manhole
    > cover. Has he case to sue the council or whoever? He says that he does not like the current 'sue
    > for any excuse' culture but I argue that others can suffer if whoever is responsible are not
    > encouraged to maintain the road surfaces in a safe state.

    See this article on how to sue the council
    http://www.simonmason.karoo.net/z20mph1.htm
    http://www.simonmason.karoo.net/z20mph2.htm
    http://www.simonmason.karoo.net/z20mph3.htm

    Simon
     
  16. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Tim Woodall wrote:
    >
    > > And one where I wasn't sure whether I should have reported it or not. [snip] My front wheel is
    > > stuck" as it slipped into a grove where the road surfacing machines edge obviously was.
    >
    > Horrible. Not come across a slot like that, but I would undoubtedly report
    > it. Nasty.

    Potentially very nasty. If your front wheel stuck fast while you were travelling at speed you'd
    take a header.

    --
    Dave...
     
  17. Tim Woodall

    Tim Woodall Guest

    On 26 Feb 2003 02:26:34 -0800, Dave Kahn <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]mcop.net> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >> Tim Woodall wrote:
    >>
    >> > And one where I wasn't sure whether I should have reported it or not. [snip] My front wheel is
    >> > stuck" as it slipped into a grove where the road surfacing machines edge obviously was.
    >>
    >> Horrible. Not come across a slot like that, but I would undoubtedly report
    >> it. Nasty.
    >
    > Potentially very nasty. If your front wheel stuck fast while you were travelling at speed you'd
    > take a header.
    >
    Its hard to be sure exactly how severe it is. It might have just been one very short bit that I
    was unlucky to hit. It was just the fact that my concentration suddenly had to switch from
    watching the traffic that might pull out infront of me to having to concentrate on keeping the
    bike upright. I suspect that probably a bit of tar along the join is all that is required, the
    road surface in general isn't at all bad. And, because of the geometry of the roundabout you
    generally end up aligning the front wheel with the join at some point as you "drift" out while
    doing a 360 degree turn.

    It's just too far away to "pop" over on foot to have a look and there is generally too much traffic
    for me to be able to see properly and, although it is only 5 minutes by bike it's not a selection of
    roads I would choose to cycle unless I actually wanted to get to borders. Those 2miles or so manage
    to include almost every dangerous situation imaginable, joining dual carriage ways from the RH lane,
    large fast roundabouts, mini roundabouts with severely restricted views at the bottom of a steep
    hill where the traffic on the other two "arms" can see straight ahead clearly. Because of the hill
    you have to slow right down so that you can stop once you can see. But that speed is then so slow
    that traffic from the left arm will then go just as you have discovered you don't need to stop.

    Regards,

    Tim.

    --
    God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.

    http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/
     
  18. James Hodson

    James Hodson Guest

    On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:23:39 -0000, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> And one where I wasn't sure whether I should have reported it or not. [snip] My front wheel is
    >> stuck" as it slipped into a grove where the road surfacing machines edge obviously was.
    >
    >Horrible. Not come across a slot like that, but I would undoubtedly report
    >it. Nasty.

    Not quite the same but last year I got my front wheel stuck between two of the concrete slabs from
    which the road was made. Result: one broken collar bone.

    James

    --
    A credit limit is NOT a target.
     
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