Injury caused by bad road surface

[rayng223]

A friend has just suffered a broken collar bone after riding into a pothole around a road manhole
cover. Has he case to sue the council or whoever? He says that he does not like the current 'sue for
any excuse' culture but I argue that others can suffer if whoever is responsible are not encouraged
to maintain the road surfaces in a safe state.

 

[Just Zis Guy]

On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:08:26 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] wrote:

>A friend has just suffered a broken collar bone after riding into a pothole around a road manhole
>cover. Has he case to sue the council or whoever?

Absolutely. Whether he chooses to pursue it is another matter. I would be inclined to seek redress
for any quantifiable loss (e.g. bent wheels) and maybe a small amount for pain and suffering. I
don't like suing, especially when it's my money, but actual injury is a Bad Thing and a good excuse
for a trip to the small claims court.

Take photographs NOW, just in case.

But last itme I bent a wheel on a pothole I phoned for a claim form and before I'd filled in the
form they had done a completely pukka job of repairing it and several other large holes nearby. I
rang the guy and said I was so impressed with the repair that I wouldn't bother claiming - it's a
road the CTC use very frequently, and having all the big holes filled was a tremendous plus.

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
dynamic DNS permitting)
NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
work. Apologies.

 

[Adrian Boliston]

"Nathaniel Porter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Litigation won't encourage the LA to repair the road, it'll deprive the of the money necessary to
> do the repairs. Try threats, but taking it the
whole
> hog won't help IMO.

But at least a bit of compensation will take the sting out of the accident to some degree. It's not
like the people who claim they have tripped on a paving slab, and are surrering from "whiplash". A
broken bone is a broken bone at the end of the day.

 

[Nathaniel Porte]

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> A friend has just suffered a broken collar bone after riding into a pothole around a road manhole
> cover. Has he case to sue the council or whoever? He says that he does not like the current 'sue
> for any excuse' culture but I argue that others can suffer if whoever is responsible are not
> encouraged to maintain the road surfaces in a safe state.
>

Litigation won't encourage the LA to repair the road, it'll deprive the of the money necessary to do
the repairs. Try threats, but taking it the whole hog won't help IMO.

 

[Tony Raven]

Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Absolutely. Whether he chooses to pursue it is another matter. I would be inclined to seek redress
> for any quantifiable loss (e.g. bent wheels) and maybe a small amount for pain and suffering. I
> don't like suing, especially when it's my money, but actual injury is a Bad Thing and a good
> excuse for a trip to the small claims court.
>

Except the people who actually pay are the ratepayers so we are all contributing towards the
redress. Doesn't cost the council a penny - just stick it on next year's rates hike.

Tony

 

[Michael Macclan]

Tony Raven wrote:
> Except the people who actually pay are the ratepayers so we are all contributing towards the
> redress. Doesn't cost the council a penny - just stick it on next year's rates hike.
>
> Tony

I don't like having to contribute towards the redress but that's the way the system works. I assume
that councils have liability isurance for this kind of incident.

It probably does cost the council, too. They don't have complete freedom to set council taxes and
they can still be voted out if they don't maintain proper standards or increase the tax too much.
--
Michael MacClancy

 

[Russell Pinder]

"Michael MacClancy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tony Raven wrote:
> > Except the people who actually pay are the ratepayers so we are all contributing towards the
> > redress. Doesn't cost the council a penny - just stick it on next year's rates hike.
> >
> > Tony
>
> I don't like having to contribute towards the redress but that's the way
the
> system works. I assume that councils have liability isurance for this
kind
> of incident.

Councils don't have liability insurance - they're self insuring, only a very few organisations are
allowed by law to do this.

> It probably does cost the council, too. They don't have complete freedom
to
> set council taxes and they can still be voted out if they don't maintain proper standards or
> increase the tax too much.

Last time I tried to claim off the council for a badly damaged wheel from a pothole they took it
quite a long way defending themselves and maintaining that they did the required 6 month inspections
(that was what was required for the particular road I was concerned with) and after that if they
weren't aware of the problem that they weren't laible and even quoted the appropriate legislation
which excused them from liability. I had quite an exchange of letters (the wheel was on my car- was
written off and cost me about £150 to replace) but in the end gave up as they clearly weren't going
to pay up without going to court and on the face of it I didnt appear I had much of a case.

Russ

> --
> Michael MacClancy

 

[Sandy Morton]

In article <[email protected]>,
russell pinder <[email protected]> wrote:
> Last time I tried to claim off the council for a badly damaged wheel from a pothole they took it
> quite a long way defending themselves and maintaining that they did the required 6 month
> inspections (that was what was required for the particular road I was concerned with) and after
> that if they weren't aware of the problem that they weren't laible and even quoted the appropriate
> legislation which excused them from liability.

I'll pass on the length of time. I had a hire cycle wheel damaged (broken) in a pothole. North
Ayrshire Council paid out in less than 3 weeks.

It can be done.

--
A T (Sandy) Morton on the Bicycle Island In the Global Village http://www.sandymillport.fsnet.co.uk

 

[GearóId Ó Laoi]

In Ireland the law is that if the pothole occurs in a repair, they are liable, othewise not.

The cyclist in my view has an obligation to look at the road. If someone threw a brick on the road,
what would happen to him.

The bone will get better in 6 weeks.

What you should do is to write to the council and point out what happened and leave it at that.

 

[Just Zis Guy]

Tony Raven wrote:
> Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Absolutely. Whether he chooses to pursue it is another matter. I would be inclined to seek
>> redress for any quantifiable loss (e.g. bent wheels) and maybe a small amount for pain and
>> suffering. I don't like suing, especially when it's my money, but actual injury is a Bad Thing
>> and a good excuse for a trip to the small claims court.

> Except the people who actually pay are the ratepayers so we are all contributing towards the
> redress. Doesn't cost the council a penny - just stick it on next year's rates hike.

Which is what I meant by it being my money - as a council tax payer. Of course it comes out of the
council's insurance, which will put the premium up next year.

But I would still consider suing in case of an injury or serious damage. Ultimately the fact that
it's a public body doesn't excuse a failure to carry out their obligations, and arguably failing to
make them hoonour their responsibilities is not doing them any favours.

--
Guy
===
I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103 http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#104

 

[J-P.S]

On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:16:42 -0000, Gearóid Ó Laoi, Garry Lee scrawled: ) The cyclist in my view has
an obligation to look at the road. If someone ) threw a brick on the road, what would happen to him.

He would probably have a right, if he were able to trace the thrower of the brick, to sue him.
Similarly for leaving sleepers on railway tracks, or throwing breeze blocks off motorway bridges.

But there is a difference between a deliberate action that has clear potential consequences, and
negligence. Negligence on the part of the council has of course to be weighed against possible
negligence on the part of the cyclist. There is no doubt that cyclists should look where they are
going. Yet there is such a thing as a duty on behalf of the council to maintain roads to a certain
legal standard. If they were deficient then they are liable in law.

Historically councils fight tooth and nail over this sort of action. While we are worrying about
obtaining a few hundred pounds' compensation from them, they think nothing of spending tens of
thousands of pounds on fighting such claims. In this way they hope to do the very thing you are
advocating: discourage people from taking legal action. The original poster should have no qualms
over attempting to obtain what may be both his legal and moral right.

J-P
--
William G Stewart (battle planning and tactics), Johnny Ball (thinking backwards while drunk) and
Tom O'Connor (Pun quartermaster)

 

[Jeremy Parker]

> A friend has just suffered a broken collar bone after riding into a pothole around a road manhole
> cover. Has he case to sue the council or whoever?

Before going nuclear, they could submit a claim on the assumption, hopefully justified, that the
Council's insurance company will pay up. All the rules about geting evidence; photos of the cover,
medical info' etc. still apply. A claim should also encourage speedy fixing of the problem. If
somebody else has trouble, and it turns out, as shown by your friend's claim, that they knew about
the problem, and did nothing, then they would be in trouble.

Jeremy Parker

 

[Tim Woodall]

Well I've just done my bit to increase my rates.

Logged four faults in one go.

One of them shouldn't have occurred - Mud on road. Unfortuately, while it isn't that bad (to a car),
it has set hard in little "hillocks".

I nearly went for six last night when I hit it at about 20mph in the dark. It's difficult knowing
whether to brake or just let the bike slow down on its own - I opted not to brake as I was already
having trouble controlling the front wheel. Tonight at least I will hopefully remember it is there.

One where the road surface has, after the cold spell, deteriorated to the point where I am
forced to slow to about 17mph. Last year through until the autumn I was usually doing 20mph+ on
the same stretch.

One mini roundabout where the road surface is sufficiently bad that I have to slow down while going
uphill in order to negociate the slots and pot holes. Unfortuantely the act of slowing down almost
always results in a car overtaking on the roundabout resulting in hitting all the potholes anyway
:-( Again this has gone from managable on a bike to unmanagable after the cold weather.

And one where I wasn't sure whether I should have reported it or not. I made a trip to my local
borders at the weekend. Almost without fail I would usually have driven or walked as my partner
doesn't cycle (She doesn't have a particularly good sense of balance but I think the "I managed five
yards on a bike once before I fell off" is slightly exagerated). As part of this journey I need to
do a U-turn on a dual carriageway (at a roundabout). Despite expectations, the dual carriageway
itself wasn't too much of a problem, it's supposed to be 40mph and it's sufficiently flat that I can
maintain 20mph+ so getting into the right lane etc wasn't too traumatic. But the U turn. Uggh. I
joined the roundabout at a fair speed (c15mph) carefully watching the traffic coming the other way
and ready to brake hard. Suddenly "****. My front wheel is stuck" as it slipped into a grove where
the road surfacing machines edge obviously was. A quick wiggle of the handlebars freed it but now I
wasn't going in the right direction and having to make a sharp correction. "Ahhh. Here comes the
grove again". Fortunately this time I managed to go over it rather than into it. "Phew. I'm clear".
And then dawning. "****. I have no idea what any other vehicle was doing on that roundabout."

Had I taken this roundabout in the highway code approved fashion from the LH lane I would probably
not have had a problem with the surface. However, given that cars go straight on from both lanes
(quite reasonably IMO) I don't think that this is any safer an option. And taking it from the RH
lane and staying right isn't really an option because the filter lane to the superstore and retail
park is about 20 yards from the roundabout.

Fortunately for me, I probably won't be cycling this route again in a hurry.

Regards,

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

 

[Just Zis Guy]

Tim Woodall wrote:

> And one where I wasn't sure whether I should have reported it or not. [snip] My front wheel is
> stuck" as it slipped into a grove where the road surfacing machines edge obviously was.

Horrible. Not come across a slot like that, but I would undoubtedly report
it. Nasty.

--
Guy
===
I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103 http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#104

 

[Simon Mason]

[email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> A friend has just suffered a broken collar bone after riding into a pothole around a road manhole
> cover. Has he case to sue the council or whoever? He says that he does not like the current 'sue
> for any excuse' culture but I argue that others can suffer if whoever is responsible are not
> encouraged to maintain the road surfaces in a safe state.

See this article on how to sue the council
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net/z20mph1.htm
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net/z20mph2.htm
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net/z20mph3.htm

Simon

 

[Dave Kahn]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Tim Woodall wrote:
>
> > And one where I wasn't sure whether I should have reported it or not. [snip] My front wheel is
> > stuck" as it slipped into a grove where the road surfacing machines edge obviously was.
>
> Horrible. Not come across a slot like that, but I would undoubtedly report
> it. Nasty.

Potentially very nasty. If your front wheel stuck fast while you were travelling at speed you'd
take a header.

--
Dave...

 

[Tim Woodall]

On 26 Feb 2003 02:26:34 -0800, Dave Kahn <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> Tim Woodall wrote:
>>
>> > And one where I wasn't sure whether I should have reported it or not. [snip] My front wheel is
>> > stuck" as it slipped into a grove where the road surfacing machines edge obviously was.
>>
>> Horrible. Not come across a slot like that, but I would undoubtedly report
>> it. Nasty.
>
> Potentially very nasty. If your front wheel stuck fast while you were travelling at speed you'd
> take a header.
>
Its hard to be sure exactly how severe it is. It might have just been one very short bit that I
was unlucky to hit. It was just the fact that my concentration suddenly had to switch from
watching the traffic that might pull out infront of me to having to concentrate on keeping the
bike upright. I suspect that probably a bit of tar along the join is all that is required, the
road surface in general isn't at all bad. And, because of the geometry of the roundabout you
generally end up aligning the front wheel with the join at some point as you "drift" out while
doing a 360 degree turn.

It's just too far away to "pop" over on foot to have a look and there is generally too much traffic
for me to be able to see properly and, although it is only 5 minutes by bike it's not a selection of
roads I would choose to cycle unless I actually wanted to get to borders. Those 2miles or so manage
to include almost every dangerous situation imaginable, joining dual carriage ways from the RH lane,
large fast roundabouts, mini roundabouts with severely restricted views at the bottom of a steep
hill where the traffic on the other two "arms" can see straight ahead clearly. Because of the hill
you have to slow right down so that you can stop once you can see. But that speed is then so slow
that traffic from the left arm will then go just as you have discovered you don't need to stop.

Regards,

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

 

[James Hodson]

On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:23:39 -0000, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote:

>> And one where I wasn't sure whether I should have reported it or not. [snip] My front wheel is
>> stuck" as it slipped into a grove where the road surfacing machines edge obviously was.
>
>Horrible. Not come across a slot like that, but I would undoubtedly report
>it. Nasty.

Not quite the same but last year I got my front wheel stuck between two of the concrete slabs from
which the road was made. Result: one broken collar bone.

James

--
A credit limit is NOT a target.