Integrated headset question

damyth said:

The frame comes with a cane creek integrated headset.

1. Are the bearing "cups" (the ones that actually go inside the head
tube)

Cane Creek bearings drop into the frame; they have no cups in the
traditional sense.

Quoted message said:

of an integrated headset supposed to be an interference fit (like
traditional cups) or a loose fit?

Loose fit; they just fall in (and fall out when disassembled).

Quoted message said:

They are a loose fit in my new
frame, should I artificially "knurl" the ID of my head tube with a
punch??

No, loose is okay. Play can be taken up with the matching conical fit
between the bearing and frame.

Quoted message said:

2. The "seat of the crown" of the carbon fork is way bigger than the
crown race. How is the crown race supposed to be removed/replaced? I
mean there is no way to use a traditional crown race remover with such
a fork. Does one just use a screwdriver?

I agree that's a RPITA. I think Park makes a big fancy puller that
slips between fork and race.

Quoted message said:

damyth said:

The frame comes with a cane creek integrated headset.

1. Are the bearing "cups" (the ones that actually go inside the head
tube)

Cane Creek bearings drop into the frame; they have no cups in the
traditional sense.

Quoted message said:

of an integrated headset supposed to be an interference fit (like
traditional cups) or a loose fit?

Loose fit; they just fall in (and fall out when disassembled).

Quoted message said:

They are a loose fit in my new
frame, should I artificially "knurl" the ID of my head tube with a
punch??

No, loose is okay. Play can be taken up with the matching conical fit
between the bearing and frame.

Quoted message said:

2. The "seat of the crown" of the carbon fork is way bigger than the
crown race. How is the crown race supposed to be removed/replaced? I
mean there is no way to use a traditional crown race remover with such
a fork. Does one just use a screwdriver?

I agree that's a RPITA. I think Park makes a big fancy puller that
slips between fork and race.

Dear Dianne,

As usual, you're right. Here's Park's universal crown race puller:

http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=50&item=CRP-1

The typo on the weight of the tool is amusing. Froogle shows that it
sells for $110 to $160.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

damyth said:

I just bought my first frame with an integrated headset. I would have
preferred a traditional head tube, but the frame deal was just too
good a deal to pass up. So please excuse me for the following stupid
questions, but it would be great if someone with more experience than
me can answer the following questions.....

The frame comes with a cane creek integrated headset.

1. Are the bearing "cups" (the ones that actually go inside the head
tube) of an integrated headset supposed to be an interference fit
(like traditional cups) or a loose fit? They are a loose fit in my
new frame, should I artificially "knurl" the ID of my head tube with a
punch??

You may be confusing integrated with internal. The difference is that
integrated seats the bearings between the frame and the fork:

http://www.chrisking.com/tech/int_headsets_explained/int_hds_explain_4.html

whereas internal sets the bearings between the cups and the fork:

http://www.chrisking.com/tech/int_headsets_explained/int_hds_explain_5.html

Which one do you have? It may help to let us know what brand of frame and
what year it is.

Quoted message said:

2. The "seat of the crown" of the carbon fork is way bigger than the
crown race. How is the crown race supposed to be removed/replaced? I
mean there is no way to use a traditional crown race remover with such
a fork. Does one just use a screwdriver?

Sometimes the standards a little different. Your LBS should have an
assortment of crown races that should fit in case the one you have doesn't.
ISO and JIS standards are one example.

--
Phil Lee, Squid

Phil Lee said:

damyth said:

I just bought my first frame with an integrated headset. I would have
preferred a traditional head tube, but the frame deal was just too
good a deal to pass up. So please excuse me for the following stupid
questions, but it would be great if someone with more experience than
me can answer the following questions.....

The frame comes with a cane creek integrated headset.

1. Are the bearing "cups" (the ones that actually go inside the head
tube) of an integrated headset supposed to be an interference fit
(like traditional cups) or a loose fit? They are a loose fit in my
new frame, should I artificially "knurl" the ID of my head tube with a
punch??

You may be confusing integrated with internal. The difference is that
integrated seats the bearings between the frame and the fork:

http://www.chrisking.com/tech/int_headsets_explained/int_hds_explain_4.html

whereas internal sets the bearings between the cups and the fork:

http://www.chrisking.com/tech/int_headsets_explained/int_hds_explain_5.html

Which one do you have? It may help to let us know what brand of frame and
what year it is.

Quoted message said:

2. The "seat of the crown" of the carbon fork is way bigger than the
crown race. How is the crown race supposed to be removed/replaced? I
mean there is no way to use a traditional crown race remover with such
a fork. Does one just use a screwdriver?

Sometimes the standards a little different. Your LBS should have an
assortment of crown races that should fit in case the one you have doesn't.
ISO and JIS standards are one example.

--
Phil Lee, Squid

Well, I admit my use of the term "cup" probably confused a lot of
people here. But the frame specs say "integrated headset," and the
head tube has some conical protrusions along the inside diameter. Plus
Diane understood me. 🙂 Thanks for the links Phil.

I just about fell out of my chair when I mocked up the headset after
receiving the frame today. I just could not believe the integrated HS
had no interference fit with the exception of the crown base plate, and
the bearings would just fall out. That was something that completely
shocked me, not ever having seen an integrated HS up close and
personal. I almost convinced myself that the frame (head tube) MUST
have been defective.

Live and learn I suppose. I don't expect the frame to last long; I
basically got a whole frameset (including carbon fork + HS) for less
than the price of a carbon fork alone. Now I'm contemplating whether
to risk my life, void the warranty and file off the lawyer lips on the
fork. 🙂 It's not clear where metal ends and carbon starts near the
dropouts......

damyth said:

I just bought my first frame with an integrated headset. I would have
preferred a traditional head tube, but the frame deal was just too good
a deal to pass up. So please excuse me for the following stupid
questions, but it would be great if someone with more experience than
me can answer the following questions.....

The frame comes with a cane creek integrated headset.

1. Are the bearing "cups" (the ones that actually go inside the head
tube) of an integrated headset supposed to be an interference fit (like
traditional cups) or a loose fit? They are a loose fit in my new
frame, should I artificially "knurl" the ID of my head tube with a
punch??

Loose

Quoted message said:

2. The "seat of the crown" of the carbon fork is way bigger than the
crown race. How is the crown race supposed to be removed/replaced? I
mean there is no way to use a traditional crown race remover with such
a fork. Does one just use a screwdriver?

Make sure you need a fork crwon race..some fork/HS models don't need a
FCR...

Quoted message said:

Thanks!

damyth said:

Phil Lee said:

damyth said:

I just bought my first frame with an integrated headset. I would have
preferred a traditional head tube, but the frame deal was just too
good a deal to pass up. So please excuse me for the following stupid
questions, but it would be great if someone with more experience than
me can answer the following questions.....

The frame comes with a cane creek integrated headset.

1. Are the bearing "cups" (the ones that actually go inside the head
tube) of an integrated headset supposed to be an interference fit
(like traditional cups) or a loose fit? They are a loose fit in my
new frame, should I artificially "knurl" the ID of my head tube with a
punch??

You may be confusing integrated with internal. The difference is that
integrated seats the bearings between the frame and the fork:

http://www.chrisking.com/tech/int_headsets_explained/int_hds_explain_4.html

whereas internal sets the bearings between the cups and the fork:

http://www.chrisking.com/tech/int_headsets_explained/int_hds_explain_5.html

Which one do you have? It may help to let us know what brand of frame and
what year it is.

Quoted message said:

2. The "seat of the crown" of the carbon fork is way bigger than the
crown race. How is the crown race supposed to be removed/replaced? I
mean there is no way to use a traditional crown race remover with such
a fork. Does one just use a screwdriver?

Sometimes the standards a little different. Your LBS should have an
assortment of crown races that should fit in case the one you have doesn't.
ISO and JIS standards are one example.

--
Phil Lee, Squid

Well, I admit my use of the term "cup" probably confused a lot of
people here. But the frame specs say "integrated headset," and the
head tube has some conical protrusions along the inside diameter. Plus
Diane understood me. 🙂 Thanks for the links Phil.

I just about fell out of my chair when I mocked up the headset after
receiving the frame today. I just could not believe the integrated HS
had no interference fit with the exception of the crown base plate, and
the bearings would just fall out. That was something that completely
shocked me, not ever having seen an integrated HS up close and
personal. I almost convinced myself that the frame (head tube) MUST
have been defective.

Live and learn I suppose. I don't expect the frame to last long; I
basically got a whole frameset (including carbon fork + HS) for less
than the price of a carbon fork alone.

Something from Chucksbikes.com, perhaps? Or a Scattante from
Performance? Or??

Quoted message said:

Now I'm contemplating whether
to risk my life, void the warranty and file off the lawyer lips on the
fork. 🙂 It's not clear where metal ends and carbon starts near the
dropouts......

Tread carefully, you really do not want to "nick" the CFRP with a file.

damyth says...

Quoted message said:

I just bought my first frame with an integrated headset. I would have
preferred a traditional head tube, but the frame deal was just too good
a deal to pass up. So please excuse me for the following stupid
questions, but it would be great if someone with more experience than
me can answer the following questions.....

The frame comes with a cane creek integrated headset.

1. Are the bearing "cups" (the ones that actually go inside the head
tube) of an integrated headset supposed to be an interference fit (like
traditional cups) or a loose fit? They are a loose fit in my new
frame, should I artificially "knurl" the ID of my head tube with a
punch??

2. The "seat of the crown" of the carbon fork is way bigger than the
crown race. How is the crown race supposed to be removed/replaced? I
mean there is no way to use a traditional crown race remover with such
a fork. Does one just use a screwdriver?

Thanks!

The last integrated headset I took apart had a crown race with a split
in it. It was the easiest thing in the world to take off, because it
wasn't a press fit at all. Yes, it was meant to be that way. The split
wasn't a problem because the bearing contact surfaces are inside the
sealed cartridge bearing.