Internet purchase - partial delivery.

I submit that on or about Sun, 18 Sep 2005 09:54:47 GMT, the person
known to the court as "Wally" <[email hidden]> made a statement
(<[email hidden]> in Your Honour's
bundle) to the following effect:

Quoted message said:

You seem to think it's important to have the order, or some of it at least,
next day, but you don't state which bits of the order you absolutely must
have.

Neither did Nick, when he placed the order, as far as his account
goes. He is bleating about paying return postage, when he had already
budgeted to pay return postage on one pair anyway. He does not say if
the pair he received fitted; there is no indication he even tried them
on. And if fit is that important, mail order is a lousy way of doing
things! Go to a bike shop and try the bloody things on!

Lots of us use Chain Reaction, Wiggle and the like; they are fast,
cheap and attentive. Best of all, they are staffed by humans, so if
you have a concern (like, for example, wanting to be sure that
everything is in stock before placing an order) you can phone them.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

Just zis Guy said:

Quoted message said:

You seem to think it's important to have the order, or some of it at
least, next day, but you don't state which bits of the order you
absolutely must have.

Quoted message said:

Neither did Nick, when he placed the order, as far as his account
goes.

Yet, the vendor seems to have made that decision/choice for him, and has
done so evidently on the basis of what they have to sell, rather than by
asking him. Is the vendor clairvoyant?

He is bleating about paying return postage, when he had already

Quoted message said:

budgeted to pay return postage on one pair anyway.

No he hadn't. He intended to buy two pairs, use the pair that was the
correct fit, and not return the other pair. He was complaining partly about
having to [censored] around with repackaging and the trip to the post office, and
partly about the fact that they didn't do what one is led to believe they
will do (assuming that when one reads what appears to be plain English, one
assumes that it is indeed plain English, and that the vendor will actually
do what the appear to say they will do). They didn't, and it [censored] him off.

Quoted message said:

Go to a bike shop and try the bloody things on!

Well, that's how I did it. :-)

Quoted message said:

Lots of us use Chain Reaction, Wiggle and the like; they are fast,
cheap and attentive. Best of all, they are staffed by humans, so if
you have a concern (like, for example, wanting to be sure that
everything is in stock before placing an order) you can phone them.

That's just it - when the web site says it's in stock, but it isn't, the
impression one gets is that they'll phone the customer.

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Cynic said:

When an order is split for whatever reason, it effectively becomes two
orders. ...

Really? And, is it given two order numbers in the order processing and
accounting system? Does the customer receive paperwork to show this?

Quoted message said:

... The customer may then wait for the second part, ...

The second part of *what*?

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Alex Heney said:

Quoted message said:

Answer the question. You contend that they are not the subject of
'you may wish to cancel', which contradicts "You may then wish to
cancel the order ...". So, are you saying that 'the order' is
actually multiple orders?

Effectively, yes.

"Effectively"? What do you mean by "effectively"? Is that something
different from, say, "legally"? Or different from what might be recorded in
the accounting system? Does 'the order' suddenly acquire additional order
numbers to show that it is now several orders?

Quoted message said:

"The order" in that situation is clearly shorthand for "the order for
that item".

It's nothing like clear.

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Wally said:

Alex Heney said:

Quoted message said:

Answer the question. You contend that they are not the subject of
'you may wish to cancel', which contradicts "You may then wish to
cancel the order ...". So, are you saying that 'the order' is
actually multiple orders?

Effectively, yes.

"Effectively"? What do you mean by "effectively"?

I mean "effectively". There isn't a better word for what I mean,
because the meaning of that word is exactly what I wish to convey.

Quoted message said:

Is that something
different from, say, "legally"?

Of course. "Effectively" has a very different meaning from "legally".

Might i suggest you invest in a dictionary. Or look the words up at
www.dictionary.com

Quoted message said:

Or different from what might be recorded in
the accounting system? Does 'the order' suddenly acquire additional order
numbers to show that it is now several orders?

Internally, it almost certainly does have a separate order number for
each line on the grouped order.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"The order" in that situation is clearly shorthand for "the order for
that item".

It's nothing like clear.

I would suggest it probably is to most people.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Vote anarchist.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

Wally said:

Quoted message said:

When an order is split for whatever reason, it effectively becomes two
orders. ...

Quoted message said:

Really? And, is it given two order numbers in the order processing and
accounting system? Does the customer receive paperwork to show this?

IME it gets two invoice numbers, which are paid separately.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

... The customer may then wait for the second part, ...

Quoted message said:

The second part of *what*?

Pretty obvious.

--
Cynic

I submit that on or about Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:50:15 GMT, the person
known to the court as "Wally" <[email hidden]> made a statement
(<[email hidden]> in Your Honour's bundle)
to the following effect:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You seem to think it's important to have the order, or some of it at
least, next day, but you don't state which bits of the order you
absolutely must have.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Neither did Nick, when he placed the order, as far as his account
goes.

Quoted message said:

Yet, the vendor seems to have made that decision/choice for him, and has
done so evidently on the basis of what they have to sell, rather than by
asking him. Is the vendor clairvoyant?

The vendor has not "made that decision for him", the vendor has
adhered to normal practice in the mail-order business, and in fact
normal practice in just about every firm I've worked in that ships
actual product: unless the customer explicitly specifies otherwise,
items in stock are shipped immediately, items out of stock are placed
on back-order. Now I freely admit that I have not been active in
companies shipping real product since February 2004, but I have
experience in companies selling jeans, power tools, computers,
surgical instruments and software - and in *every* case it was usual
to part-ship when items were out of stock, and I can recall only a
handful of customers who expressed a preference otherwise. Your
experience may differ.

Quoted message said:

He is bleating about paying return postage, when he had already

Quoted message said:

budgeted to pay return postage on one pair anyway.

Quoted message said:

No he hadn't. He intended to buy two pairs, use the pair that was the
correct fit, and not return the other pair.

Why? And so what? By only receiving one pair he is out of pocket
less than if he'd received both, rather than the same!

Quoted message said:

He was complaining partly about
having to [censored] around with repackaging and the trip to the post office,

Bollocks. If he was that fussed he'd have left them in the packaging
in the first place, and in the world I live in carriers (including
ParcelFarce) collect.

Quoted message said:

and
partly about the fact that they didn't do what one is led to believe they
will do (assuming that when one reads what appears to be plain English, one
assumes that it is indeed plain English, and that the vendor will actually
do what the appear to say they will do). They didn't, and it [censored] him off.

They did what I expect every online and mail-order retailer to do.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Go to a bike shop and try the bloody things on!

Well, that's how I did it. :-)

Quite. As did I. Not that this helped in the case of one pair, but
that's another story...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lots of us use Chain Reaction, Wiggle and the like; they are fast,
cheap and attentive. Best of all, they are staffed by humans, so if
you have a concern (like, for example, wanting to be sure that
everything is in stock before placing an order) you can phone them.

Quoted message said:

That's just it - when the web site says it's in stock, but it isn't, the
impression one gets is that they'll phone the customer.

Why? It is perfectly normal for stock indications of small-scale
e-tailers to be out of date by up to 24 hours.

Like I say, they publish contact details, and most of these firms also
have a comments box somewhere along the line between basket and final
OK. If no part shipments is a Big Fat Hairy Deal, let them know. It
is a small outfit staffed by real humans, I would be prepared to bet
actual money they will do exactly as requested.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

Quoted message said:

Now I freely admit that I have not been active in companies shipping real
product since February 2004, but I have experience in companies selling
jeans, power tools, computers, surgical instruments and software - and
in *every* case it was usual to part-ship when items were out of
stock, and I can recall only a handful of customers who expressed a
preference otherwise. Your experience may differ.

Um, I only have experience of the usual part-shipment of software! Can
I express a preference that it be delivered complete from now on? Or
will that mean I won't get free updates?

Rats, I was hoping so much not to have to post anything in this thread,
but that was just too tempting.

JimP

I submit that on or about 22 Sep 2005 18:20:04 -0700, the person known
to the court as "JimP" <[email hidden]> made a statement
(<[email hidden]> in Your
Honour's bundle) to the following effect:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now I freely admit that I have not been active in companies shipping real
product since February 2004, but I have experience in companies selling
jeans, power tools, computers, surgical instruments and software - and
in *every* case it was usual to part-ship when items were out of
stock, and I can recall only a handful of customers who expressed a
preference otherwise. Your experience may differ.

Quoted message said:

Um, I only have experience of the usual part-shipment of software! Can
I express a preference that it be delivered complete from now on? Or
will that mean I won't get free updates?

Fair point. Microsoft part-ships *all* software, as anyone who has
run Update on a brand-new PC will know...

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken